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Andrew Bevan wrote:Johannes, I hadn't noticed the aspect, so now I already owe you a beer! :'

Now I am wondering whether Saturn is aspect to POF is beneficial to the favourite. It is a sextile (is that significant?), and then cast through signs of long ascension that sometimes learn things the hard way. But then Saturn is Lord of the ascendant, so I guess you are right.

Saturn in his exaltation might represent the champion, titleholder or favourite. I had a horary client the other day asking about a relationship. The quesitive was represented by the exalted Saturn and as the consultation progressed it turned out that the person in question was a celebrity - so there is no doubt Saturn can represent someone of esteem and who has risen to considerable heights.

I actually looked at the semi-sextile between POF and dispositor Venus, LHr, and wondered whether this aspect through signs of short ascension could work like a conjunction (?) but that was rather artistic of me and I honestly don't know.
Cheers, Andrew! Thank you!

Following Frawley (only in Sports!) and his Sports Astrology I am allowed to
"Forget essential dignity
Forget accidental dignity"
and to "forget receptions".

Johannes

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If Spain wear their home sport kit darkred they are represent with Sa. Italy then will wear white sport kit and is represent with Moon. Frawley suggest when Moon is ruler to keep it for Moon;s aspects and use its dispositor as ruler for that team, here it is Ju in close conjunction with South node. This is strong testimony that Italy will lose.There are no Moon;s aspect within 5 degrees. There are no big difference in dignities. Because Lord of hour is on the brink we can expect draw but at the end Spain will win.
Greetings,
Goca
http://www.astrosport07.webs.com
http://fensi88.livejournal.com/

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Johannes wrote:Following Frawley (only in Sports!) and his Sports Astrology I am allowed to "Forget essential dignity Forget accidental dignity" and to "forget receptions".
There will be no drinks on me if you get too forgetful! :,

Keep your eyes open and keep thinking! :o

-------------------------------------------------------

Goca:
I should really check the thread. Didn't we have a game a couple of days ago played in the hour of Jupiter, radical by triplicity with Saturn - and where Jupiter was with Venus L4, and the match ended a draw? Goca, how far away is the change of hours? I can't see it in 'my' Regio-system - but if it were the case then that could also be a draw-testimony.

PS. The comparison is of couse the England - Italy game a week ago on June 24. that ended 0-0 and a draw after full time! Page 10 in our thread.
http://www.astronor.com

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Saturn/Spain is trine POF rather than opposed like the Moon, and if Spain is the favourite to win (and given the ASC) then surely a trine would be more favourable than an opposition, especially with such a close orb? Moon is also in Sagittarius: Spain. ...Although curious, Spain's ruler Jupiter and POF are in Italy's sign of Gemini and conjunct South Node. My bet would be on Spain, but after a tough game. Italy really mopped the floor with Germany, which came as a surprise to many, including myself! :'

GH :)

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Saturn is unaspected (in modern sense) & in 8H Placidus, Sun is still in tight opp to Pluto & sq Uranus.
On the contrary, the Moon is doing fine: 11H cusp, conj NN, in sect, next aspect POF. If she's just the flow of events, then it's probably going to be a very exciting match.
Trying to copy Andrew's rich imagination, which I admire and respect the most :' , I would also see in favor of L7 that kite pattern between Nodes-Moon-Jup&Venus-Merc-Ur similar to a Sagittarian bow, triggered by the very bowman Jupiter. Ok, of course I'm making up things here, but:

There is another golden rule out there:

whenever italian football league is troubled by scandals, italy gets the trophy (1982 & 2006 world championships)

So my bets will be with Italy :-T

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Andrew Bevan wrote:

I can't see Italy anywhere in the Opening, Final or 'Horary' chart. Now the details and teams for the final are decided and down to fixture level. Thursday's chart, Germany-Italy, did have the toppling elements. Nixx, since you are new to the group, we have seen some serious underdogs and upsets pop up under the Sun's hard aspect to the outer planets Uranus and Pluto. In addition the Sun does destroy or reduce the virtue of a planet within 2? of his opposition. But then we are back to examining indiviual matches, the charts that pave the way to the final and making all the pieces fit up to that final game. Maybe there is both an overall or underlying plan or undercurrent AND small specifics that may interfere on the way. :-?

Nixx's advice on gathering some security on the Italians was sound judgement, although I am not sure whether it came from having a father as a bookmaker or whether there was something else behind? Nixx, I feel that you have both knowledge or the astrological, but that you contribution here is also to remind us about the realities. Would that be about right? 8)
I think we can agree a high profile Football Match has an impact in the country overall, perhaps victory giving the average Joe a temporary pick me up. So if the Sun is the 'identity' of the nation it seems logical to focus on this body. On a natal chart if these 2 outers oppose the Sun we might say the person needs to be fighting the ?establishment? to feel more authentic. If so how do we or you, or have you already, constructed a mundane narrative for this pattern. ?

Italy was just a footballing guess after their display against the Brits. However I would have seen them beat the Germans many times before, so this, lost at the time, memory may have been a factor.

Reality wise I suspect a football match is won by the better team about 65-70% of the time, 15-20% a draw and 10-15% the weaker team wins. If so a savvy pundit should expect a roughly even return. Maybe ?105-110 back for every ?100 bet? So to suggest an astrological effect I reckon we need to be looking at around ?130. That's 6/7 out of 10 correct predictions. A big ask methinks.