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Euro 2012 - football
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1330

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew Bevan wrote:
Johannes, I hadn't noticed the aspect, so now I already owe you a beer! Thumbs up

Now I am wondering whether Saturn is aspect to POF is beneficial to the favourite. It is a sextile (is that significant?), and then cast through signs of long ascension that sometimes learn things the hard way. But then Saturn is Lord of the ascendant, so I guess you are right.

Saturn in his exaltation might represent the champion, titleholder or favourite. I had a horary client the other day asking about a relationship. The quesitive was represented by the exalted Saturn and as the consultation progressed it turned out that the person in question was a celebrity - so there is no doubt Saturn can represent someone of esteem and who has risen to considerable heights.

I actually looked at the semi-sextile between POF and dispositor Venus, LHr, and wondered whether this aspect through signs of short ascension could work like a conjunction (?) but that was rather artistic of me and I honestly don't know.

Cheers, Andrew! Thank you!

Following Frawley (only in Sports!) and his Sports Astrology I am allowed to
"Forget essential dignity
Forget accidental dignity"
and to "forget receptions".

Johannes
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Goca



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 948
Location: Srbija

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Spain wear their home sport kit darkred they are represent with Sa. Italy then will wear white sport kit and is represent with Moon. Frawley suggest when Moon is ruler to keep it for Moon;s aspects and use its dispositor as ruler for that team, here it is Ju in close conjunction with South node. This is strong testimony that Italy will lose.There are no Moon;s aspect within 5 degrees. There are no big difference in dignities. Because Lord of hour is on the brink we can expect draw but at the end Spain will win.
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
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Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johannes wrote:
Following Frawley (only in Sports!) and his Sports Astrology I am allowed to "Forget essential dignity Forget accidental dignity" and to "forget receptions".

There will be no drinks on me if you get too forgetful! Thumbs down

Keep your eyes open and keep thinking! Surprised

-------------------------------------------------------

Goca:
I should really check the thread. Didn't we have a game a couple of days ago played in the hour of Jupiter, radical by triplicity with Saturn - and where Jupiter was with Venus L4, and the match ended a draw? Goca, how far away is the change of hours? I can't see it in 'my' Regio-system - but if it were the case then that could also be a draw-testimony.

PS. The comparison is of couse the England - Italy game a week ago on June 24. that ended 0-0 and a draw after full time! Page 10 in our thread.
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Gunhilde



Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 800

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saturn/Spain is trine POF rather than opposed like the Moon, and if Spain is the favourite to win (and given the ASC) then surely a trine would be more favourable than an opposition, especially with such a close orb? Moon is also in Sagittarius: Spain. ...Although curious, Spain's ruler Jupiter and POF are in Italy's sign of Gemini and conjunct South Node. My bet would be on Spain, but after a tough game. Italy really mopped the floor with Germany, which came as a surprise to many, including myself! Thumbs up

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Goca



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew, my astroprogram also for Regio... houses display that hour of Ma start at 9:45pm!! What your program said when is change from Ju to Ma?
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geo



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
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Location: Athens, Greece

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saturn is unaspected (in modern sense) & in 8H Placidus, Sun is still in tight opp to Pluto & sq Uranus.
On the contrary, the Moon is doing fine: 11H cusp, conj NN, in sect, next aspect POF. If she's just the flow of events, then it's probably going to be a very exciting match.
Trying to copy Andrew's rich imagination, which I admire and respect the most Thumbs up , I would also see in favor of L7 that kite pattern between Nodes-Moon-Jup&Venus-Merc-Ur similar to a Sagittarian bow, triggered by the very bowman Jupiter. Ok, of course I'm making up things here, but:

There is another golden rule out there:

whenever italian football league is troubled by scandals, italy gets the trophy (1982 & 2006 world championships)

So my bets will be with Italy Tongue Out
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geo



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
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Location: Athens, Greece

Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goca wrote:
Andrew, my astroprogram also for Regio... houses display that hour of Ma start at 9:45pm!! What your program said when is change from Ju to Ma?


from http://www.lunarium.co.uk: in kiev, mars starts at 21.51
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Gunhilde



Joined: 10 Jun 2006
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect Italian football is always troubled by scandals... Confused

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Goca



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

geo wrote:
Goca wrote:
Andrew, my astroprogram also for Regio... houses display that hour of Ma start at 9:45pm!! What your program said when is change from Ju to Ma?


from http://www.lunarium.co.uk: in kiev, mars starts at 21.51

I have free astroprogram, might be it is wrong Sick
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should really like to know, whether Spain is still to be seen as the fovourite since yesterday ?
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spain - Italy
Odds: 2,15 3,15 3,75

Spain are favourites by odds. And I am not changing my position now. I stand and fall with the astrology. Being wrong is fine as long as something is learnt. It is an important exercise to have a clear mind and stick with you hold. But not always... Wink
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Nixx



Joined: 10 Dec 2011
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Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew Bevan wrote:


I can't see Italy anywhere in the Opening, Final or 'Horary' chart. Now the details and teams for the final are decided and down to fixture level. Thursday's chart, Germany-Italy, did have the toppling elements. Nixx, since you are new to the group, we have seen some serious underdogs and upsets pop up under the Sun's hard aspect to the outer planets Uranus and Pluto. In addition the Sun does destroy or reduce the virtue of a planet within 2° of his opposition. But then we are back to examining indiviual matches, the charts that pave the way to the final and making all the pieces fit up to that final game. Maybe there is both an overall or underlying plan or undercurrent AND small specifics that may interfere on the way. Confused

Nixx's advice on gathering some security on the Italians was sound judgement, although I am not sure whether it came from having a father as a bookmaker or whether there was something else behind? Nixx, I feel that you have both knowledge or the astrological, but that you contribution here is also to remind us about the realities. Would that be about right? Cool


I think we can agree a high profile Football Match has an impact in the country overall, perhaps victory giving the average Joe a temporary pick me up. So if the Sun is the 'identity' of the nation it seems logical to focus on this body. On a natal chart if these 2 outers oppose the Sun we might say the person needs to be fighting the ‘establishment’ to feel more authentic. If so how do we or you, or have you already, constructed a mundane narrative for this pattern. ?

Italy was just a footballing guess after their display against the Brits. However I would have seen them beat the Germans many times before, so this, lost at the time, memory may have been a factor.

Reality wise I suspect a football match is won by the better team about 65-70% of the time, 15-20% a draw and 10-15% the weaker team wins. If so a savvy pundit should expect a roughly even return. Maybe £105-110 back for every £100 bet? So to suggest an astrological effect I reckon we need to be looking at around £130. That's 6/7 out of 10 correct predictions. A big ask methinks.
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Andrew Bevan



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Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nixx wrote:
I think we can agree a high profile Football Match has an impact in the country overall, perhaps victory giving the average Joe a temporary pick me up. So if the Sun is the 'identity' of the nation it seems logical to focus on this body. On a natal chart if these 2 outers oppose the Sun we might say the person needs to be fighting the ‘establishment’ to feel more authentic. If so how do we or you, or have you already, constructed a mundane narrative for this pattern. ?

The various nations are sorted into signs and a planetary labeling that may be found in many good books on astrology; Ptolemy, Lilly, Watters... This system differs from national or constitutional charts. Regarding the astrology of the moment it appears that the Moon shows what is happening, while the Sun sets the background scene. The Moon is the swifter of the luminaries show she shows the flow of events, change and motion, while the influence or significations of the Sun may be predominant. In terms of planetary hours, the Lord or Lady of the Hour is like the officer on watch, or the person stood behind the shop counter, while the Lord of the Day is like the Shop Owner - often behind the scenes, but a deciding Manager.

Yes, we are working on and need to work on the mundane 'narrative'. It is a bit messy because there is so much going on - and are we talking in terms of absolutes? In stockmarket terms it requires a clear mind and conviction, because the psychology of the market will tend try to throw you off at the wrong ends.

Quote:
Italy was just a footballing guess after their display against the Brits. However I would have seen them beat the Germans many times before, so this, lost at the time, memory may have been a factor.

Yes, and I was told that the Germans had NEVER beaten the Italians in an international tournament. What is that about? It is pure psychology? More like a curse, I think, something going on in a larger pattern. The two teams must have had a combat under a particular mundane configuration that 'sets a spell' that is not to be broken before the mundane cycle is completed. I do have a few examples of this related to the tripple conjunctions of Jupiter and Saturn.

Quote:
Reality wise I suspect a football match is won by the better team about 65-70% of the time, 15-20% a draw and 10-15% the weaker team wins. If so a savvy pundit should expect a roughly even return. Maybe £105-110 back for every £100 bet? So to suggest an astrological effect I reckon we need to be looking at around £130. That's 6/7 out of 10 correct predictions. A big ask methinks.

We have looked into these statistics in previous threads and you are close in your estimates. You define the challenge perfectly. We're working on it but stuck at the level of understanding the problem and all the pieces. The thought of the Anima Mundi, backing something at the odds of 145.2593/1 is something that is enough to scare the wits off all of us, I think. Confused
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Nixx



Joined: 10 Dec 2011
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Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The various nations are sorted into signs and a planetary labeling that may be found in many good books on astrology; Ptolemy, Lilly, Watters... This system differs from national or constitutional charts. Regarding the astrology of the moment it appears that the Moon shows what is happening, while the Sun sets the background scene. The Moon is the swifter of the luminaries show she shows the flow of events, change and motion, while the influence or significations of the Sun may be predominant. In terms of planetary hours, the Lord or Lady of the Hour is like the officer on watch, or the person stood behind the shop counter, while the Lord of the Day is like the Shop Owner - often behind the scenes, but a deciding Manager.

Yes, we are working on and need to work on the mundane 'narrative'. It is a bit messy because there is so much going on - and are we talking in terms of absolutes? In stockmarket terms it requires a clear mind and conviction, because the psychology of the market will tend try to throw you off at the wrong ends.


Perhaps we need to think about throwing the baby out with the bathwater if we can't get to 6/7 out of 10 using these ''good books’’, no matter how hard we try. Did Lilly do well at the Gog Magog Games, do we have years of betting slips demonstrating this?

Absolute in the sense we can be absolutley sure no astrological sporting contest effect can be suggested, or taken seriously, unless we can prove it statistically to the bookies, pundits or even academics.

Quote:
Yes, and I was told that the Germans had NEVER beaten the Italians in an international tournament. What is that about? It is pure psychology? More like a curse, I think, something going on in a larger pattern. The two teams must have had a combat under a particular mundane configuration that 'sets a spell' that is not to be broken before the mundane cycle is completed. I do have a few examples of this related to the tripple conjunctions of Jupiter and Saturn


Who knows, something to do with the 2nd world war? Football wise Italy has often been as strong if not stronger than the Germans. It's not the Faroe Islands and Brazil.

Quote:
We have looked into these statistics in previous threads and you are close in your estimates. You define the challenge perfectly. We're working on it but stuck at the level of understanding the problem and all the pieces. The thought of the Anima Mundi, backing something at the odds of 145.2593/1 is something that is enough to scare the wits off all of us, I think


145/1 to one that folks here can come to an agreement. But what odds would a bookie give us if we asked for odds on us being able to predict outcomes , better than this I reckon. They may kick us out as we would potentially be putting them out of business and this would be the end of sport as we know it. Talk about ''match fixing''. Perhaps this is it, if we learn how to do it then we can no longer enjoy watching or playing so we undermine our understandings of the cosmic forces.
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
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Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Perhaps we need to think about throwing the baby out with the bathwater if we can't get to 6/7 out of 10 using these ''good books’’, no matter how hard we try. Did Lilly do well at the Gog Magog Games, do we have years of betting slips demonstrating this?

If anyone's got them, it is probably Philip Graves! Unfortunately, the first official bookmaker doesn't appear to have been around before the late 18th century. Apart from that there is the problem of understanding old rules and making them make sense in modern terminology. 10/1 that we are doing a better job here examining the problem than those astrologers who believe they know everything but who are not willing to commit a wager on anything.

At some stage there may be a more stuctured study on football games inspired by some of the work we have laid down here at Skyscript. Smile
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