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Platonic nature of sect

 
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jorge



Joined: 13 Mar 2012
Posts: 124

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:08 pm    Post subject: Platonic nature of sect Reply with quote

Since youre having difficulty seeing links from astrlology x files heres a page I copied.Quite interesting:

Greetings,

I've been using a method which applies the Greek philosophical concept of limit and the limitless, (or form and matter principles), to the issue of day/night sect. I'm getting interesting results which expand and clarify the reading of natal charts. In addition, I've been attending the series of lectures given by Robert Schmidt in Berkeley Springs on the "Education of the Theoretical Astrologer". The method I'm using directly correlates to the underpinnings of Greek philosophy which I encountered at these lectures. It has been a fortunate experience to have a front row seat and absorb the contents of these mini-conclaves, and I strongly recommend obtaining these philosophical gold mines on tape. For those of you new to the Project or in another country, the series of lectures come in boxed sets and can be purchased by contacting the Hindquarters. The expansion of consciousness will delight your senses and the proceeds will continue to nourish the tree of knowledge (Project Hindsight).

In order to illustrate the method I will utilize the limit/limitless concept in relation to sect. This allows one to visualize the following statements with greater ease. Feel free to develop this theory using the Greek concepts of form/matter,one/many, and same/other within this framework. Also, the examples given are just one of many possibilities of manifestation. Incorporating other factors such as perceiving the chart as a whole, environmental issues, sex, age, and nationality of the subject are other possibilities, (plus any other variables you can imagine).

Sect is not a matter of strength. It corresponds more to the FLOW of energy. Being in sect or out of sect will enhance or impede the natural flow without other factors being taken into consideration. A clearer way to describe this phenomenon is the term SYNC. A planet in-sync(sect) suggests that the energy has a natural timing to its flow. A planet out-of-sync(sect) suggests that the planet's energy flow is impeded and its timing is off in some manner. Take a few minutes to ponder the thought/sensation of your life circumstances or body when you are in-sync (flowing/feeling good) or out-of-sync (impeded/feeling frustrated). Get the picture? Feel the sensation? Because sect is so important to the rest of the chart, it's helpful to begin the ritual of reading the nativity with this metaphor in mind.

The conditions for in-sync(sect) and out-of-sync(sect) planets are as follows: the planets/energies that work well with the Sun are Jupiter and Saturn. The planets/energies that work well with the Moon are Mars and Venus. Mercury (LOGOS) is considered neutral and acts as an exchange point between the two principles (solar and lunar) but it has some sort of bond to the lunar sect (i.e. evening star).

Rule one...The Sun can't be completely out of sync/sect. (Rob Hand has since thought that it can be completely out of sect.) The Sun is the determining factor as to whether the whole chart is a day (solar) chart, (above the horizon), or night (lunar) chart, (below the horizon). The Sun is a LIMITING principle.

Rule two...The opposite hemisphere (southern/northern) from the physical position of the Sun will be the lunar FIELD, regardless of the position of the Moon. The Moon, unlike the Sun, CAN be completely out of sync/sect. The Moon is a principle of FLOW.

Rule three... The third determinant of sect is the masculinity or femininity of the sign that the planet occupies. Planets that work well with the Sun like to be in masculine signs. Planets that work well with the Moon like to be in feminine signs.

According to the position of the Sun, the chart is divided into two FIELDS. The solar field relates to the LIMITED, and the lunar field corresponds to the LIMITLESS.

Picture or draw two squares... Each 4"x4"...one of the squares is blank... the other has 16 smaller 1" squares that completely fill the 4"x4" area. The blank square will be the lunar field (limitless), and the other, the solar field (limited). In order for planets/energies to flow, there must be a constant cycle of input and output. The energies that flow well in the blank square lunar field (limitless), are the Moon, Mars, and Venus. The degree to which the planets are in-sync/sect will determine the level of impediment. The Moon, for example, when above the horizon in a lunar (or night chart), will exhibit its natural qualities of sensitivity and expression of emotions in a balanced way if it is in a feminine zoidion or sign. In other words, a person with the Moon in HAYZ (totally in sect), is more likely to sense another person's needs while still being able to express their own (FDR for example). This Moon resides in the limitless field or the blank square where no restrictions or rules are forced upon it.

However, if you put the Moon in its opposite condition, completely out of sync/sect, the Moon would be above the horizon in a day chart in a masculine zoidion. The Moon would then be in the solar field (limited) which is represented by the box with the 16 smaller squares. Conditions of structure now impede the Moon's ability to flow. The Moon has difficulty sensing, and acting out emotions in a flowing way. An example would be a person who is not sensitive to the needs of others and has a hard time expressing their inner feelings (Scrooge). Mars and Venus will act in a similar fashion. In the lunar field (limitless) Mars has freedom from restriction. You can throw a ball in an outdoor park with relative freedom, but if you were to perform the same action inside a greenhouse (limited field), malefic consequences are more likely to occur. Venus deals with comfort and relationships. Wearing shoes that are too small (limited field) creates discomfort. Putting conditions on love, (limited field), causes stress within relationships. Shoes should be comfortable and unconditional love, (limitless field), is stress free.

The energies that work well in the solar field (the box with squares) are the Sun, Jupiter, and Saturn. As stated earlier the Sun can never be completely out of sync/sect because it is always in its own field. Jupiter rules the expansion principle. In the solar/limited field, its limits are defined and the energy has an understanding of its capacity. Conversely, Jupiter in the limitless field will have a tendency for over-indulgence or dissipation. Saturn in the limited field is a decisive Saturn that deals with the facts. Saturn in the field of the limitless is less decisive and prone to make a decision based on feelings.

Using the flow principle, Saturn and Jupiter will have problems in the lunar field (limitless), and Mars and Venus in the solar field (limited). In Saturn's case, it receives more information than it can process. This creates a bottleneck at its output, possibly being manifested as frustration or fear. Jupiter's tendency will be to take on more than it can handle. It would be similar to having a valve stuck in the open position. Mars' energy in the solar field (limited) is restrained. The valve to the flow is stuck in the closed position with pressure building. Consequently, when the valve is opened, there is excessive pressure release. Venus and the Moon in the solar field (limited) suffer from lack of input. The restriction of input occurs because the structure is limiting the supply. An example of this is a dam controlling the amount of water it lets through.

One last point. The manifestations that arise will show a dominance of expression in the nativity. This means that the action is favored, but it is not a constantly repeating process. When testing the true nature of anything, stress has the natural ability to reveal faults. The ability to respond in an even tempered, focused manner under pressure is a sign of balanced flow.

These are the basic principles that I have been using with success. If anyone has questions feel free to ask. I will do my best to reply, it just might take awhile.

A special thanks to Bob and Ellen who always found the time to answer my questions. Also Keith McWilliams for helping me put my thoughts into written form.

Charles J. Bucek 4-25-1996
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irisalbus



Joined: 28 Mar 2012
Posts: 82

Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do sect and field mean the same thing?
If I get it right, Jupiter and Saturn are in sect when they are in the same hemisphere the Sun is in, while the Moon, Mars and Venus are in sect when they are in the opposite field the Sun is in?

What happens if the determinants of sects are mixed?
Ex. the Moon below the horizon in a night chart in a feminine zoidion? Sensing and acting out emotions have certain limits but are not totally limited, I guess, but then, when are they flowing freely and when not?
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Code:
What happens if the determinants of sects are mixed?


In the original ancient understanding the primary consideration is whether the chart is night or day. Indeed many authors only mention this factor when discussing sect. The other considerations ie above/below horizon, masculine/feminine sign, or harmonious quadrant or phase are simply ancillary factors which mitigate being out of sect or fortify a planet already in sect. These factors dont change whether a planet is in sect or not.

This fundamental distinction morphed somewhat in medieval astrology. The Arabic astrologers introduced the terms 'hayz' and 'halb' and gave much greater emphasis on hemisphere location or sign placement in determining a planet in sect. They were probably relying on references in ancient sources like Valens but the ultimate outcome was was that some confusion and inconsistency crept into the notion of sect.

Arguably, the Arabic treatment of sect led to the diminishing significance of sect in medieval astrology until by the time of early modern astrologers like William Lilly it had clearly been retained as only a minor factor in chart delineation. This is radically different from the outlook of the ancient astrologers who regarded sect as very important.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/hayz.html

These notions are discussed in this old thread:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1371

Mark
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zoidsoft



Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 631
Location: Pulaski, NY

Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.astrology-x-files.com/x-files/bucekonsect.html
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Clelia Romano



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 353
Location: São Paulo

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zoidsoft wrote:
http://www.astrology-x-files.com/x-files/bucekonsect.html


Even having been written many years ago, it is a really good and updated article! Thumbs up
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Yukionna



Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 90

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Jorge for posting this article, I find it very interesting and will start testing it. Very Happy

Yuki
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irisalbus



Joined: 28 Mar 2012
Posts: 82

Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those that might be interested, I add that I have just read Robert Hand's "Night and Day: Planetary Sect in Astrology" and find that it gives very clear and comprehensible explanations about sects.

(I hope that mentioning this book is not against any rule of the forum)

Iris
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zoidsoft



Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 631
Location: Pulaski, NY

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

irisalbus wrote:
For those that might be interested, I add that I have just read Robert Hand's "Night and Day: Planetary Sect in Astrology" and find that it gives very clear and comprehensible explanations about sects.

(I hope that mentioning this book is not against any rule of the forum)

Iris


I have that text. That was during the time when we thought that the concept of sect was a composite of 3 different concepts; what the natural sect of the planet is, whether the planet is in it's own light and whether it matches the masculine / feminine nature of the sign. When all 3 conditions are met, it was called "being in hayz, or hayiz, etc...". Schmidt later said that the first condition is the concept of sect itself and that the latter 2 are really rejoicing conditions.
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irisalbus



Joined: 28 Mar 2012
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Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zoidsoft wrote:
irisalbus wrote:
For those that might be interested, I add that I have just read Robert Hand's "Night and Day: Planetary Sect in Astrology" and find that it gives very clear and comprehensible explanations about sects.

(I hope that mentioning this book is not against any rule of the forum)

Iris


I have that text. That was during the time when we thought that the concept of sect was a composite of 3 different concepts; what the natural sect of the planet is, whether the planet is in it's own light and whether it matches the masculine / feminine nature of the sign. When all 3 conditions are met, it was called "being in hayz, or hayiz, etc...". Schmidt later said that the first condition is the concept of sect itself and that the latter 2 are really rejoicing conditions.


In the meantime I have started reading Introductions to Traditional Astrology (Abu Ma'shar & al-Qabisi) and in fact in this book the interpretation you mention ie. the difference between hayyiz and halb is made clear.
Yet I think that the explanation (but not necessarily the conclusion) given in Robert Hand's text is linear and comprehensible, very appropriate for a beginner.
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Kenneth Johnson



Joined: 12 Aug 2012
Posts: 128
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A great deal of attention has been drawn to the popularity of astrology among Stoic philosophers (notably Valens). In that respect, I am gratified to see Jorge's reminder of some of the Hermetic themes regarding sect. Almost all the Greeks agreed that astrology was originally one of the "Hermetic arts," though the Stoic outlook may have obscured some of the original doctrines. The interplay of night and day, light and darkness -- in other words, polarity as opposed to strict duality -- is a common theme throughout the Corpus Hermeticum. Some factors, notably the rationale behind the Lots of Fortune and Spirit (commonly said by the earliest astrologers to be the product of the art's earliest stratum), are entirely in keeping with the Hermetic concept of polarities. While I hesitate to apply such foreign terms as yin and yang, the analogy is not without justification.

I believe there is a great deal to be learned from studying the doctrines of Hellenistic astrology as an expression of Hermetic philosophy, and I thank Jorge for pointing out some of the parallels.
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