CA vol I: ch.19 - aspects
Part VI of Deborah Houlding's annotated edition of Lilly's Christian Astrology, covering pages 105-114 |
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jorge
Joined: 13 Mar 2012
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 7:09 pm Post subject: Born at night- no sense of right and wrong? |
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Hi
From what I´ve been reading at Astrology X files ,according to Hellenic Astrology if youre born at night you lack sense of right or wrong, because Saturn and Jupiter are out of sect, unless they are dignified.
Sounds a bit harsh.
What do those members born after sunset feel about that?
As a side note, it is said the heat of the day makes Mars impulsive. But what if its a winter day?
In Chinese astrology it is season that determines temperature of chart, day comes second, for a good reason I think.
My two cents |
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Ed F
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 301
Location: Ipswich, MA USA
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: Born at night- no sense of right and wrong? |
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| jorge wrote: |
What do those members born after sunset feel about that? |
I remember my first acquaintance with my lifetime companion Mr. Guilt when I was 1-1/2 years old, having stolen my baby brother's bottle and hiding behind a chair in the living room to consume its contents. Needless to say, I got caught before I finished the thing.
Nocturnal sect. Enough said?
- Ed |
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###
Joined: 08 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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You write: "From what I´ve been reading at Astrology X files ,according to Hellenic Astrology if youre born at night you lack sense of right or wrong, because Saturn and Jupiter are out of sect, unless they are dignified".
What, exactly, have you been reading? Where does it say that? How can we check it out? We need access to the specific source - we don't want to be rummaging around the whole site in search of it. Then you ask "What do those members born after sunset feel about that?" You are starting a discussion based upon unverified statements and, probably, misinformation.
My response is strong because I can hardly see Mr. Manwaring (I believe its his site you referred to), or any decent astrologer, making such a strong, simplistic claim concerning nocturnal Jupiter and Saturn. If anything, maybe the source was saying that such planets add an influence toward the tendency of lacking the sense of right and wrong. Other factors MUST be taken into consideration before any claims can be made that the person is lacking in such a way. |
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jorge
Joined: 13 Mar 2012
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Kirk wrote: |
You write: "From what I´ve been reading at Astrology X files ,according to Hellenic Astrology if youre born at night you lack sense of right or wrong, because Saturn and Jupiter are out of sect, unless they are dignified".
What, exactly, have you been reading? Where does it say that? How can we check it out? We need access to the specific source - we don't want to be rummaging around the whole site in search of it. Then you ask "What do those members born after sunset feel about that?" You are starting a discussion based upon unverified statements and, probably, misinformation.
My response is strong because I can hardly see Mr. Manwaring (I believe its his site you referred to), or any decent astrologer, making such a strong, simplistic claim concerning nocturnal Jupiter and Saturn. If anything, maybe the source was saying that such planets add an influence toward the tendency of lacking the sense of right and wrong. Other factors MUST be taken into consideration before any claims can be made that the person is lacking in such a way. |
http://www.astrology-x-files.com/houses/saturn-10.html
Here.It may not be the only determinant but an important one
http://www.zodiac-x-files.com/signs/capricorn-mars.html
See also this In day chart Saturn will not tolerate the transgressions of mars in capricorn |
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James E.
Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 105
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: Born at night- no sense of right and wrong? |
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| jorge wrote: | From what I´ve been reading at Astrology X files ,according to Hellenic Astrology if youre born at night you lack sense of right or wrong, because Saturn and Jupiter are out of sect, unless they are dignified.
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The text you mention reading cannot be found on the page you gave us a link to (http://www.astrology-x-files.com/houses/saturn-10.html)
james |
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jorge
Joined: 13 Mar 2012
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: Born at night- no sense of right and wrong? |
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| jerd wrote: | | jorge wrote: | From what I´ve been reading at Astrology X files ,according to Hellenic Astrology if youre born at night you lack sense of right or wrong, because Saturn and Jupiter are out of sect, unless they are dignified.
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The text you mention reading cannot be found on the page you gave us a link to (http://www.astrology-x-files.com/houses/saturn-10.html)
james |
I can see it
Check houses then Saturn in 1oth |
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James E.
Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 105
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: Born at night- no sense of right and wrong? |
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| jorge wrote: | | I can see it. Check houses then Saturn in 1oth |
The link for Saturn in the 10th is the following: http://www.astrology-x-files.com/houses/saturn-10.html
On that page I cannot see the text your refer to. Perhaps you could quote exactly the text since I can't read it?
james |
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jorge
Joined: 13 Mar 2012
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:11 pm Post subject: Re: Born at night- no sense of right and wrong? |
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| jerd wrote: | | jorge wrote: | | I can see it. Check houses then Saturn in 1oth |
The link for Saturn in the 10th is the following: http://www.astrology-x-files.com/houses/saturn-10.html
On that page I cannot see the text your refer to. Perhaps you could quote exactly the text since I can't read it?
james |
If Saturn is lord of the 10th, or in the 10th, and dignified or received, and in sect, it shows the attainment of a high social position, great responsibility and rank after a long trial or period of hard work, usually past the age of 30. Here the native has a clear sense of right and wrong because the darkness of Saturn is contrasted by the light. This is commonly seen in the charts of the British monarchy. In charts where a lack of eminence is indicated (by the 4 lots), it shows a good relationship to superiors, loyalty and servitude without complaint, and an opinion that the superiors are just. Also according to Paulus: "When Kronos (Saturn) occupies this place for diurnal births and is present in zoidia in which it rejoices, it will make for employment at waterside jobs, and shows those who become wealthy, fond of husbandry and protective of the country, as well as those who become owners of land and of foundations". [48] But if Saturn is out of sect, or in debility with affliction, then the native finds it difficult to get ahead and be successful because in darkness it is difficult to organize your priorities in attaining the summit. According to Paulus: "..it will produce those who become dysfunctional, unsuccessful at acquiring property, unable to get ahead, slothful, ill-wedded, with few children, and poor...". [49] I might add that it likely produces a mistrust of authority because it would be difficult for the native to see any reasoning in their actions being overpowered by the darkness of Saturn. Often the actions of the native are unjust because the native cannot see clearly the right path because of ignorance, and for the same reasons. In the charts of those who are eminent, it indicates the decay of their empire under their rule, through bad policy, corruption, and lack of justice. This was the case in Hitlers chart, where Saturn was in Leo in the MC and the lord (the Sun) was setting. Compare this with what Valens said 2 paragraphs above.
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James E.
Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 105
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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Where in this text do you see your claim that: "according to Hellenic Astrology if youre born at night you lack sense of right or wrong, because Saturn and Jupiter are out of sect, unless they are dignified."?
james |
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jorge
Joined: 13 Mar 2012
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| jerd wrote: | Where in this text do you see your claim that: "according to Hellenic Astrology if youre born at night you lack sense of right or wrong, because Saturn and Jupiter are out of sect, unless they are dignified."?
james |
Its something i assume based also on what they say about Mars in Capricorn in day birth |
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Paul
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| jorge wrote: | | jerd wrote: | Where in this text do you see your claim that: "according to Hellenic Astrology if youre born at night you lack sense of right or wrong, because Saturn and Jupiter are out of sect, unless they are dignified."?
james |
Its something i assume based also on what they say about Mars in Capricorn in day birth |
Hi Jorge
I commend you for you passion and interest in astrology and starting new threads here. It's been interesting reading through them, even if at times it seems you lack focus to dedicate time to any one of them in particular.
However, we should be really careful about making assumptions about particular branches of astrology, especially when we cite websites where these assumptions are not made. As it happens, the author of that website is a regular poster on this forum and might not like the idea that according to his site, everyone born at night doesn't have a sense of right and wrong.
You have linked us to two pages. Neither of them mention Jupiter whatsoever, as an example, so it is hard to see why you sum up Curtis' point as being "because Saturn and Jupiter are out of sect".
Clearly if this is a theory it is not his, but yours.
And yes, I think I'd agree that it "Sounds a bit harsh".
Let us conclude that this is not what Curtis Manwaring is theorising at all. We should be very careful to make sure we don't put words in someone else's mouth.
As a further recommendation I'd encourage you to read up on sect and how it is used and what it is etc. You should be able to google it. |
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jorge
Joined: 13 Mar 2012
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Paul"it "Sounds a bit harsh". Let us conclude that this is not what Curtis Manwaring is theorising at all. We should be very careful to make sure we don't put words in someone else's mouth. As a further recommendation I'd encourage you to read up on sect and how it is used and what it is etc. You should be able to google it.[/quote]
Hi Paul
I agree i may have over read what he said.
I just been reading what he says about Sun in Libra and Aquarius.
This leads me to believe we cannot dismiss the idea that the sun signs do not work so well for Southern Hemisphere. To say that season is just not that important is to ignore the facts. The detriment and fall of Aquarius and libra under the Sun are clearly based on season,but people think it is related to season only symbolically. Doesnt really appear to be the case. |
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Paul
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| jorge wrote: |
Hi Paul
I agree i may have over read what he said.
I just been reading what he says about Sun in Libra and Aquarius.
This leads me to believe we cannot dismiss the idea that the sun signs do not work so well for Southern Hemisphere. To say that season is just not that important is to ignore the facts. The detriment and fall of Aquarius and libra under the Sun are clearly based on season,but people think it is related to season only symbolically. Doesnt really appear to be the case. |
Jorge
This is a separate issue not pertaining to either sect nor to the the x-files website suggesting that to be born at night means you have no sense of right and wrong. |
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zoidsoft
Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 437
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| Paul wrote: | | jorge wrote: |
Hi Paul
I agree i may have over read what he said.
I just been reading what he says about Sun in Libra and Aquarius.
This leads me to believe we cannot dismiss the idea that the sun signs do not work so well for Southern Hemisphere. To say that season is just not that important is to ignore the facts. The detriment and fall of Aquarius and libra under the Sun are clearly based on season,but people think it is related to season only symbolically. Doesnt really appear to be the case. |
Jorge
This is a separate issue not pertaining to either sect nor to the the x-files website suggesting that to be born at night means you have no sense of right and wrong. |
I did not say that being born at night causes lack of the knowledge of right and wrong. I said that being born during the day gives one a clearer sense of right and wrong (aka - more confidence in what one should do), but I did not say why (I'll explain below) and I gather that because of this you thought I implied the opposite goes for night births. Valens does give indications for spotting unethical individuals using the lot of theft for example. I am not saying everyone born at night is immoral or unethical, but what it potentially does is place one in circumstances where it becomes very difficult to see the correct path out of any morally ambiguous situation because planets contrary to the sect tend to behave against the native's best interests. The diurnal sect implies Saturn and Jupiter (limits and Nous) functioning in a clear cut manner usually in the native's best interest, and therefore such would tend to have little doubt about what path to take at critical moments or remain relatively untested, whereas a nocturnal birth may potentially tax your prudence.
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Curtis Manwaring
Zoidiasoft Technologies, LLC |
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zoidsoft
Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 437
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 5:27 am Post subject: |
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The question that comes to mind, is why did you not ask me directly?
_________________
Curtis Manwaring
Zoidiasoft Technologies, LLC |
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