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Venus synodic cicle

 
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Clelia Romano



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 353
Location: São Paulo

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 4:25 pm    Post subject: Venus synodic cicle Reply with quote

Hello all!

I hope some of you would be able to answer me a question, may be a silly one, but this doubt is troubling my mind:
I was observing Venus and its synodic cicle and I found for the next 20 years the following pattern:
Gemini, Libra, Leo, Gemini, Capricorn, Leo, Aries, Libra, Gemini, Capricorn, Leo, Aries, Libra, Gemini.

Well, I was not able to find a synodic conjunction Venus/Sun in Cancer, Virgo, Scorpio,Sagittarius, Aquarius, Pisces and Taurus.
I jumped to 2050 and apparently i found out the same above pattern Confused

What this means?

Thank you in advance!

Clélia
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PFN



Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 393
Location: Ouro Preto, Brasil

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at an ephemeris you see that the cycles the planets do are not evenly distributed, at all. Seemingly, they shift over time, but it is a really long time span. Some cycles repeat more often than others, that seem like exceptional (Mars and Venus meet in Taurus often, not so much in Leo, nowadays).

This must be related to the times we are in and it's characteristics, and could well be a source of research, but portends an immense lot of work to even glimpse at.
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Clelia Romano



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 353
Location: São Paulo

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PFN wrote:
Looking at an ephemeris you see that the cycles the planets do are not evenly distributed, at all. Seemingly, they shift over time, but it is a really long time span. Some cycles repeat more often than others, that seem like exceptional (Mars and Venus meet in Taurus often, not so much in Leo, nowadays).

This must be related to the times we are in and it's characteristics, and could well be a source of research, but portends an immense lot of work to even glimpse at.


Hello, Felipe!

I think that this kind of thing must have a meaning in mundane astrology.
I expect that some astrologer with a good astronomical knowledge will be look at this question and will able to explain this issue.
For example, fashion certainly is subject to this kind of cicle...I would like to observe it more closely,
Thanks anyway for the answer.
PS:BTW I liked your new picture Smile
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astrojin



Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 447

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

The synodic cycles of Venus follow an almost exact pattern. Both Mercury and Venus make superior and inferior conjunctions with the Sun. Hence, the pattern is discernable when we segregate inferior and superior conjunctions and the pattern happens to be a five pointed star. In other words, five synodic superior conjunctions make up a five-pointed star and these synodic conjunctions take almost exactly 8 years (which happens to be the minor and Firdaria period of Venus). The same can be said for the synodic inferior conjunctions.

Example:
Synodic conjunctions of Venus-Sun:
(The direct and retrograde refer to Venus - obviously!)

16-Aug-2011 23°Le18' D Sup
06-Jun-2012 15°Ge44' R Inf
29-Mar-2013 08°Ar10' D Sup
11-Jan-2014 21°Cp13' R Inf
25-Oct-2014 01°Sc49' D Sup
16-Aug-2015 22°Le39' R Inf
07-Jun-2016 16°Ge35' D Sup
25-Mar-2017 04°Ar58' R Inf
09-Jan-2018 18°Cp58' D Sup
26-Oct-2018 03°Sc07' R Inf
14-Aug-2019 21°Le11' D Sup
04-Jun-2020 13°Ge35' R Inf
26-Mar-2021 05°Ar50' D Sup
09-Jan-2022 18°Cp44' R Inf
23-Oct-2022 29°Li28' D Sup
13-Aug-2023 20°Le28' R Inf
04-Jun-2024 14°Ge30' D Sup
23-Mar-2025 02°Ar40' R Inf
07-Jan-2026 16°Cp22' D Sup
24-Oct-2026 00°Sc46' R Inf
12-Aug-2027 19°Le07' D Sup
01-Jun-2028 11°Ge27' R Inf
24-Mar-2029 03°Ar28' D Sup
06-Jan-2030 16°Cp16' R Inf

If you look at the five superior conjunctions (Sup), you’ll see that they are 23Leo-8Ari-2Sco-17Gem-19Cap. If you connect them, they form a five pointed star (well, almost!). Then the pattern repeats itself with one correction i.e. each degree position is less by about two degrees (which moves the five pointed star about two degrees backward i.e. the five pointed star precesses by about two degrees). The next superior cycle is 21Leo-6Ari-29Lib-15Gem-16Cap which confirms this.

The pattern is similar with the inferior (Inf) conjunctions.
First inferior synodic pattern: 16Gem-21Cap-23Leo-5Ari-3Sco. Next pattern: 14Gem-19Cap-20Leo-3Ari-1Sco.

The five pointed star pattern of Venus is by itself, impressive due to the pattern as well as its predictability (the whole five pointed star cycle takes almost exactly eight Egyptian years of 365 day/year). Five and Eight? These are the fifth and the sixth Fibonacci numbers whose ratio is close to the Golden ratio. The five pointed star itself has many properties which can be expressed using the Golden ratio (see Pentagram – Wikipedia).

Returning to your query, these five signs of synodic conjunctions tend to cluster together. Hence, there will be seven signs that are not “visited” by these synodic conjunctions for quite some time (which gives rise to the seven signs you listed!). Seven? Now, that is also interesting as it is the mystical number of traditional planets!
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks astrojin,

I had a feeling you would come to our rescue! Fascinating.

Mark
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Clelia Romano



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 353
Location: São Paulo

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Astrojin, thanks for the excellent explanation! I really appreciated it, since it solved all of my doubts!

My error was that I took for granted that Venus takes more or less a year to make a conjunction to the Sun and I jumped Scorpio because it is a conjunction that occurs few months ( 4 months, I think)after the previous conjunction.

The result of my oblivion is that I got really surprised because the star was not showing up in my picture and I knew that Venus conjunctions were able to configure a pentagram star in the circle. Confused

As for the firdaria years there is a topic in this forum where Felipe gave a probable reason for them based on the exaltations in the Thema Mundi, just because Abu Mashar says that the firdaria years are based in exaltations and before him the firdars were not introduced in western astrology. However Abu Mashar did not explain what he means with the word "exaltations" and his work The Thousand is lost. But Felipe´s explanation was plausible.
I will look for this material in the forum to bring it back, because your own explanation for the years given to Venus´ firdaria is also possible.

Thanks again!

Clélia
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astrojin



Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 447

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello again!,

When I mentioned the eight year cycle of Venus, I stated that it happens to be the minor period of Venus as well as her Firdaria period. While it is true that the minor periods of ALL the planets were derived from their synodic conjunctions with the Sun in Egyptian Calendrical years (except for the sun and moon whose minor periods were derived from their peculiar cycles in Egyptian Calendrical years), the firdaria periods do not seem to be derived from the synodic conjunction. It just so happen that Venus and Jupiter have the same numbers in both minor and firdaria periods. Kind of interesting though that both benefics have the same number in both minor and firdaria periods!

In fact both Venus and Jupiter have the same numbers in minor periods, firdaria periods and Ptolemy's Ages of Man!
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Clelia Romano



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 353
Location: São Paulo

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

astrojin wrote:
Hello again!,

Kind of interesting though that both benefics have the same number in both minor and firdaria periods!

In fact both Venus and Jupiter have the same numbers in minor periods, firdaria periods and Ptolemy's Ages of Man!


Interesting indeed! I had never thought about this coincidence happening in what concerns the benefics.
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Tatianaly



Joined: 17 May 2012
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Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some cycles repeat more often than others, that seem like exceptional
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Clelia Romano



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 353
Location: São Paulo

Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatianaly wrote:
Some cycles repeat more often than others, that seem like exceptional


Yes indeed: Venus visits some signs and and not others for a considerable amount of time and then, little by little it moves until it reaches the other signs and leaves the present ones.

I imagine that it can bring changes in fashion in general, in the diplomacy, if we think that Venus is a social planet and perhaps in the way people has fun.

It would be a nice article to write about!
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Donna Chang



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 24
Location: San Francisco

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yiu might find this interesting as well, by Gary Caton in the Mountain Astrologer:

Venus’ visible cycle begins with her eastern appearance as Morning Star, which lasts about 258 days. This is separated from her western appearance as Evening Star by 60 days of darkness (invisibility), as she slowly passes through the crucible of the solar fire during her superior or exterior (direct) conjunction with the Sun. Venus then spends another eight months or so shining in the west as Evening Star. So, about 95% of Venus’ visual cycle involves a slow transmutation of over 18 months, and includes her morning star, underworld, and evening star incarnations. (It is18 months from first morning appearance to last evening appearance.)

Venus’ retrograde period, which lasts only 40 – 43 days, is about 5% of 584 days, the total synodic cycle. It also contains all three of Venus’ visible phases. But, in stark contrast, what previously took 18 months to unfold, we will now experience in a mere 14 or so days! If you begin watching the sky every evening, you will soon see Venus, one of the brightest stars in the sky, rapidly dim, disappear, and then reappear in the opposite part of the sky, that is, the eastern morning sky. This is a very dramatic transformation! Visually, what stands out the most is not so much Venus’ backward motion, but her rapid disappearance and change of horizons. What was previously established and slowly transformed, over the last 18 months, is now rapidly swept away. (3)
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Clelia Romano



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 353
Location: São Paulo

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="DonnaChang"]Yiu might find this interesting as well, by Gary Caton in the Mountain Astrologer:

Thank you Donna! Very Happy
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