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Will Israel strike somewhere this year
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Teiresias



Joined: 20 Apr 2012
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Location: Prince George, British Columbia Canada

Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 2:43 pm    Post subject: Will Israel strike somewhere this year Reply with quote

On May 14 -16th of this year, unless she uses Mars energies in a positive way. Israel will strike somewhere. To say more would be posting an artucle, I suppose, which I'm not allowed to do.
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Mark
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Posted: Thu May 03, 2012 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Teiresias,

A warm welcome to Skyscript and the mundane forum in particular. Thumbs up

You will find many fascinating features on Skyscript including many articles relating to mundane astrology:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/books.html#ma

Noone expects you to necessarily get into a long post here. Its a personal decision. However, it would be more useful if you could at least explain your astrological reasoning here. At present its unclear what you are basing your prediction on. Confused Hence people looking in here could conclude your prediction is based on purely psychic insight rather than astrology.

What chart(s) are you using as your basic source and what predictive method are you relying on?

Thanks

Mark
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Teiresias



Joined: 20 Apr 2012
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Location: Prince George, British Columbia Canada

Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:47 am    Post subject: will Israel attack Iran Reply with quote

I use the chart for 4:37:30 pm, May 14, 1946, Tel Aviv, Israel, given in "Mundane Astrology" by Michael Baigent et al.
I base my reasoning on her two Grand Quintiles, each lacking a point, one in her geocentric chart and the other in her helio. In the geocentric chart, it is Jupiter 27 SG quintile Atlantis at 11 PI quintile the Sun at 23 TA, and the Moon at 5 LE and conjunct the MC. with the empty point at 16 LI 54. In the helio it is Chiron at 24 SC. Atlantis at 4 AQ, Pallas at 15 AR,and Uranus at 26 GE (rounding off), with the fifth point at 9 VI 5.
When the empty point of either of these is occupied by a planet, either geo- or heliocentric, by secondary progression or Solar Arc Direction, and there is also a transit to that point, the figure is activated and there is an event. When both are activated it is major, especially since the two configurations are a semiquintile apart, giving a Grand Decile.
On the date in question, May 14-16, the geo fifth point is occupied by Solar Arc helio Pluto and geo Saturn at 15 LI 25 and 17 LI 38, and the helio fifth point by progressed helio Vesta at 9VI 9, and we have geo Mars transiting at 9 VI and helio Mars at 16 LI; there will be a void of course Moon (Israeli time) from 3 pm on the 15th to 0:47 am on the 16th. Thank you for putting up with a lengthy explanation, but it's as brief as I can make it.
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Mark
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Teiresias

There is really no need to worry about the length of your reply. Members are welcome to set out their delineations in considerable detail. Indeed I think many members like seeing exactly what a prediction like yours is based on.

I dont work with a lot of the techniques you utilise ( e.g. heliocentric zodiac, asteroids, Keplerian aspects) , so its difficult for me to comment much.

What I think is really useful for prediction is identifying replicatable factors. So have you identified these kind of conditions in previous military strikes by Isreal from the past? What are the recurring themes in these charts and the current configuration you have focused on?

Quote:
I use the chart for 4:37:30 pm, May 14, 1946, Tel Aviv, Israel, given in "Mundane Astrology" by Michael Baigent et al.


I think you mean 1948. I also use a Scorpio rising chart for Israel myself. Although in his Book of World Horoscopes Nicholas Campion also gives information that could support a late Libra rising chart from as early as 16:00.

Here is the Israeli national chart based on the time you cite:





I discussed the controversy over the timing of of the Israeli national chart extensively in a couple of posts in this previous thread:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6358&sid=08cf0fbc8c8a30f758903e12d5a11d82

Here is a previous post by me that seems relevant here:

Quote:
Just as a postscript to the Israeli chart I note some eye witness accounts give a time of 16:32 rather than 16:37 for the end of the the independence ceremony and Ben-Gurion declaring the state of Israel created.

http://info.jpost.com/1998/Supplements/Jubilee/2.html

Many websites cite 16:00 as the time for the national chart. I seriously question this. The 16:00 time listed by Nicholas Campion represents the beginning of the ceremony before Ben-Gurion read out the proclamation and those present signed the document. I therefore dont regard it as a sensible time to date the national chart from.

If we take the 14:32 time as very close we have a choice as the rising degree changed from Libra to Scorpio in that very minute! Unfortunately, there were no astrologers present to record the seconds! Moreover, this was an era before digital watches so the time could be out a few seconds or even a minute on someones wrist watch.

Based on the historical sources then the evidence seems to support a very late Libra rising or very early Scorpio rising chart.

As I mentioned earlier I support the latter. Israel has spent much of its history either fighting existential wars for its survival or in conflict with the Palestinians, Lebanese etc. Israel's extremely close relationship with the USA is explained astrologically by the fact that both governments have a Scorpio rising charts. In the case of the USA I refer to both the Federal government chart and foundational ingress chart for 1789.

The Israeli military success (often against the odds) seems much better represented by an uncompromising Mars in Leo (on Regulus) than a Venus in Cancer. The country has also experienced terrorism on a scale unknown in most of the developed west. In response it has developed formidable systems and techniques that allow the nation to cope with terrorism. Israel has in fact grown to become the fourth largest arms exporter in the world. It has also developed one of the world's most respected and feared secret intelligence services in the world (Mossad). Politically decreed assassnations of the nations opponents (ex-Nazis or Palestinian extremists) have been a matter of state policy for decades. Israel is the only country in the middle east with nuclear weapons. All of this strongly hints at a strong Scorpio influence.

It also seems appropriate that Venus rules the 7th house representing Israels neighbours and open enemies. Venus is the planet associated with Islam in traditional astrology.

I could go on but I think you get the picture of my take on why I think the Israeli national chart should be Scorpio rather than Libra rising.


Mark
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james_m



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Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

first off, i don't think israel will be doing anything in the foreseeable future and i base this off studying irans chart which i have commented on elsewhere..

isaac starkman who lives in tel aviv gives alexandar marrs rectified chart for 415:07pm which has 26 libra 15 rising and which he uses based off a study of events in israels history.

the thing is if you go with the 432 chart to give a scorpio rising and you base this on the idea of israel always being on a war footing, why not go with the saturn/pluto conjunction with saturn as ruler of the 4th as doing the same? personally i like the libra chart with the powerful friends represented by jupiter on the 3rd house cusp in its own sign and a focal point to the chart from a marc edmund jones point of view..

the other important consideration if you see the martial influence as prominent in israels chart is how sun squares onto mars and saturn no matter whether it is a libra or scorpio rising chart.. square aspects involving mars are more typical of combative types as i understand astrology..

probably the most central part to israels chart is the stellium in leo with either a 7th or 8th house sun ruling over this stellium.. the great feelings of superiority/inferiority and the struggle with national identity seems such a central feature to the modern state of israel.. i note saturn at the moon/mars midpoint as well..

personally i like the 4pm chart with neptune on the ascendant.. why the state of israel was proclaimed when it was seems shrouded in behind the scenes actions on the part of zionisms desire for a homeland and there was no shortage of terrorism back at the time either which i think is summarized in this prominent saturn/pluto as part of the stellium in leo..i would have saturn and moon in leo as rulers of the midheaven axis..
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Mark
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Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi James,

People all have their preferences and preconceptions. That is why I prefer accurate historical sources that take a lot of the subjectivity out of this:

http://info.jpost.com/1998/Supplements/Jubilee/2.html

Quote:
When Shertok, the last of the 25 signers that day, penned his name, the crowd rose and began singing Hatikva again, accompanied by the 70-member Palestine Philharmonic Orchestra.

When they had finished, Ben-Gurion declared: "The State of Israel is established. This meeting is adjourned."

After 1,878 years in exile, it had taken 32 minutes for the Jewish nation to be declared reborn.


Mark
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Last edited by Mark on Fri May 04, 2012 4:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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james_m



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Posted: Fri May 04, 2012 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi mark,

i have read that before.. i suppose i ought to add, 32 minutes and still 25 people hadn't signed it yet.. at what point do you factor this in, if the signing is considered most critical?

perhaps you would like to read the thread on israel at noel tyls site which also offered a midnight chart with saturn/pluto on the ascendant..

http://noeltyl.com/discussion/index.php?PHPSESSID=320f7ed3a4574ef7835424528f4ae67a&topic=3849.0
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Teiresias



Joined: 20 Apr 2012
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Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 9:47 am    Post subject: will israel strike somewhere this year Reply with quote

First of all, thank you for giving a hearing to someone whose methods are strange to you. I expect to prove their validity by giving examples, the first of which I am posting today, the rest very soon.
I was introduced to these techniques by the works of people who made good cases for them which I then verified for myself: heliocentric charts by T. Patrick Davis, the asteroids by Demetra George, Atlantis by Zip Dobyns, and the Kepler aspects by various books and articles.The Grand Quintile (pentagon) and the midpoint between geo- and heliocentric Mars (the double Mars point} I discovered myself.
In the case of Israel's birth chart, since the Ascendant is one's "window on the world" it seemed inconceivable that the country would perceive the world as fair and equitable. Why would she? Writing 1946 was a stupid mistake.
I took the time from "Mundane Astrology" wen Ben-Gurion banged his gavel.and, seeing from a footnote that a viewer had noted a time of 4:37:30, 30 seconds later than the official time given by the authors, I tried that. It gives an MC of 4 LE 4, Moon at 4 LE 43, and an Ascendant of 0 SC 59. So far these angles have worked.
For instance, in the example I'm giving now, the famous Six Day War, which began 7:45 am, June 5, 1967, helio Mars was transiting at 19 SC 25, conjunct the Solar Arc Ascendant.
Progressed helio Mars at 14 LI 50 was at the outer edge of the geocentric empty point (gp5)and was also squaring the natal Moon/Uranus midpoint at 14 CA 32, Mars there given by Ebertin's "Combination of Stellar Influences" as "rashness." It was transited by geo Mars at 15 LI 35, which was on its own transiting descending node.
Helio p5 (hp5) was activated by a helio conjunction of Vesta and Saturn, which had arced to 10 VI 31 and -51 respectively, opposed by arced Chiron at 9 SG 43, and was transited bt helio Vesta at 9 VI 36.
At the same time, the Solar Arc of 18 degrees transformed quintiles into squares, forcing them into action. Solar Arc Sun squared natal Atlantis
arced Moon natal Sun, arced helio Uranus natal helio Pallas, arced helio Atlantis natal helio Chiron.
Mars was highly activated. There was a T-square between progressed Uranus at 25 GE 26 and progressed Jupiter at 25 SG 30. both squared by progressed Atlantis at 24 PI 56 and progressed Juno at 26 PI 26. This was further activated by the progressed Mars/Mars midpoint at 25 VI 39 which was transited by helio Chiron at 26 PI 28.
The natal Mars/Mars midpoint at 17 VI 15 together with the A/MC midpoint at 17 VI 30 were transited by Pluto at 17 VI 59. By Solar Arc, the Mars/Mars midpoint conjoined natal helio Mars.
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Mark
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Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Teiresias,

I confess your techniques do mystify me a bit. Not so much on their own but the unique 'cocktail' of differing techniques you seem to be combining together. For example your shift between helio and geo positions confuses me. Surely these are separate free standing approaches?

I dont currently use quintiles although I did toy with them a few years back. However, the general view on them is that they operate in a positive, 'soft', way a bit like trines so I dont see why they are being linked to military action here even if there is a 'Grand Quintile'. Confused

The source you are relying on for the timing of the chart is hotly disputed. Take a look at the links provided by myself and the Link to the Noel Tyl forum discussion on this which James_M provided.

Mark
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james_m



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Posted: Sat May 05, 2012 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: will israel strike somewhere this year Reply with quote

Teiresias wrote:

In the case of Israel's birth chart, since the Ascendant is one's "window on the world" it seemed inconceivable that the country would perceive the world as fair and equitable. Why would she?


oh that all those with libra rising would perceive the world as fair and equitable! the opposite is more the truth of the matter.. libra rising puts everything up on its scales and notes how a perfect balance is some perfectionist ideal to strive for more then something that is ever present.. things would be just so perfect if iran wasn't interested in having what israel has for example, but then we have to look to the leo and fixed positions in the chart to get a better understanding of this side to israels identity..
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Teiresias



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Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After reading about the ceremony of the Declaration of Independence, I can see where the conflicting judgements about the birth time arose. Ben-Gurion certainly didn't make things easy for astrologers!
Who has tested the various birth times against events?
Davis was also hesitant an doubtful at first about using the blended geo-heliocentric chart. But the understanding gained from the new method, and the explanations of things up then inexplicable finally convinced her, as it has me.
The tentative rationale is that the human body and mind responds to the two horoscopes, that the parts of the mind involved in each also communicate with each other to form a coherent picture. Which is natural for us.
The mind also responds to geometry such as the circle, the dot, the line or opposition, the square, the equilateral triangle and so forth. They are the geometry of art and life. The potency of thee Yod is well known in astrology and I am arguing that the Grand Quintile is at least as powerful as the Yod.
The quintile gives a sort of creative mastery of a medium and the ability to coordinate a myriad of details into cohesive, symmetrical and beautiful work of art. But it can also be used in the human realm to manipulate and coerce.
The Grand Quntile is the sheriff's badge and the Pentagon for a reason.
When it is activated there is a finesse in what is done, "a plan comes together."
The nature of the plan depends on the nature of the planet temporarily occupying the empty fifth point. In Israel's case we have the geocentic fifth point "gp5" at 16 LI 54) and the helio "hp5" at 9 VI 5.
At first only gp5 was activated;
hp5 received no progressions or Solar Arcs until 1967.
Now to history.
note: I must break off now, but will continue shortly.
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Teiresias



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Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what happened? I spent hours typing in an essay and it wouldn't submit but just disappeared. Was it too long, or what?
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Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Teiresias wrote:
Quote:
what happened? I spent hours typing in an essay and it wouldn't submit but just disappeared. Was it too long, or what?


Sorry to hear that. It is very frustrating when that happens. Its nothing personal though. Its happened to us all here at least a few times. Looks like you lost your logged in connection while you were typing away. The basic lesson is dont try to post a really long piece online. Do it on word first and cut and paste it. Quite often you can scroll back a page using the arrow on the top of your PC to get your post again but it doesn't always work.

I hope you find the time to make your post another time.

regards

Mark
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Teiresias



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Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 3:38 am    Post subject: will israel strike somewhere this year Reply with quote

Well, Israel did',t attack Iran for which I am heartily grateful. However the period I spoke of, May 14 - 16 was one of civil unrest. I am indebted to a new blog, +972.mag for valuable information which was not given in the usual sources.
Two main events were the "Occupy" rally in Rabin Square, with a crowd variously reported as 5,000 - 20,000 people on May 12 and the "Nakba Day" riot outside the Ofer Military Prison near Ramallah, with nearly a thousand protesters, who used stones and slingshots, Molotov cocktails, and burning tires, and soldiers who fired plastic-covered steel bullets, tear gas, and "skunk spray". This was on the 15th.
200 demonstraters were treated, 130 for tear gas and 70 for bullet wounds.
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Teiresias



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Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 12:43 am    Post subject: will israel strike somewhere this year Reply with quote

I am continuing a bit on the quintile formations in Israel's history. The nature of her response to them depends on the planet activating the empty point.
Looking at the chart, we can see that the first planet to occupy geo p5 at 16 LI 54 would be Solar Arc Neptune.
On September 10, 1952, when that planet was helio Neptune, transited by helio Saturn, Israel signed an agreement to accept reparations from Germany.
Next, on June 21, 1954, when arced geo Neptune occupied the same point and Neptune transited arced geo p5 while Atlantis transited at 15 LI 34, Israel and her neighbors agreed, according to the Johnston Plan,to share the waters of the Jordan River, an agreement which was adhered to by both sides for ten years.
The next planet to activate the helio and geo fifth points would be Mars, which I will post next.
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