31
johannes susato wrote:
margherita wrote:Does his chart fit better with almost all invisible planets, burned by the Sun, or 2 planets which in days will do their heliacal rising?
. . . or would perhaps the teaching of Doryphory give a better answer to nativities like this and that of Morin (and Einstein possibly)?

Johannes
No, I'm talking about phase, even if there is here a doryphory too. Heliacal phase is absolutely central in Cieloeterra teaching, it is an extremely powerful condition of the planet, able even to change the qualities of the planet itself (see Ptolemy).

Einstein has Mercury in its vespertine rising (16 March), Saturn in its heliacal setting (12 March) and Jupiter in heliacal rising (19 March).

margherita
Traditional astrology at
http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com

32
nixx - one only had to have read 1 book to be made aware of barbault -
mundane astrology by baigent, campion and harvey - the same names mentioned by handn in marks post... they might not have talked about him much more then in this book.. i have no idea..
Mark wrote:
Hello

Barbault's reputation as well as the ideas behind his mundane work have both been brought into English many years ago via Charles Harvey, Nick Campion and Michael Baigent in particular. Astrology is a very big subject and there just aren't enough hours in the day to keep abreast of everything even in the UK alone, without stepping outside into other English-speaking countries. The internet makes it both easier and harder -- it's easy to be flooded with information but little time to digest it.

Regards

handn

33
Prediction puts astrological ideas to the test. Its how we learn in mundane astrology
.

In a sense I would say, but unless Barbault's predictions have been monitored on an excel spreadsheet and then given to a Historian or Economist or ideally both so they can say something erudite about the likely outcome of the event at the time of the utterance, neither he or us will know if his 'astrology' has any or much validity.

You can say the - Under One Sky- folks had guts to expose their schemas, but as far as I know none of the hopeless ones gave up astrology or even said why they thought they had failed. Nor was there a we must do astrology as Roberts does from now on effect and discard all this Vedic, Medieval, Uranian, Sidereal, Modern Western, Evolutionary..nonsense! So who has learnt what here with this guts?

I would hope and anticipate Tyl's predictions rarely manifest as he imagines they will. If his horoscopy is useful the Trad folks here and the Psych Astro's, are barking up the wrong trees, or just barking.

Greene briefly outlines her approach to predictions here :http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_transits_e.htm

This thinking was explored more, Mundane wise, in Tarnas's Cosmos and Psyche. It would be disingenuous to say this lot would not expect certain charts to provide strong clues as to who is the Pressie next year. You would hope she wants everyone to vote for Obama, but would her prediction get him more votes or less? Don't this crowd predict in a more cyclic movements in the collective psyche way? I.e. symbols are to multivalent to do otherwise.

and here some thoughts on USA 2008-2024: http://www.astro.com/nat/natus2_e.htm

It?s not 2025 yet, this may help someone who knows a lot about the USA but for someone like me it reveals little about the outcome.

The sports folks here appear to do worse than chance! Just as well as Andrew probably doesn't want 5 million hard core punters camped out on his lawn.

PS -I found the index to considerations magazine http://freeconsiderations.com/pdf/articleindex.pdf
And only one Barbault. I thought there was more, maybe Axel and others refer to his opus in some of their musings?
Barbault's Napoleon is here. http://issuu.com/considerations/docs/20 ... geNumber=4

He has a great chart for a Mundanist. All Air so no deep interest in people (pretends otherwise -Mer in Sco), will wear lemon coloured socks (Libra), giant computer screen to look at 84 charts at once (Aquarius), ..parfait.

But this is a noteworthy issue about other language speakers. I once read Ring invented, or pioneered, Psychological Astrology not Greene. But a brief look into it revealed a few German books so I am still clueless. Maybe Gravesy might know? But in any event chances are she wouldn?t have known this early 70's time.
nixx - one only had to have read 1 book to be made aware of barbault ? mundane astrology by baigent, campion and harvey - the same names mentioned by handn in marks post... they might not have talked about him much more then in this book.. i have no idea..
I probably read this in 1985. Whether or not I had heard about him before who knows, last week is a blur. These 3 would have discussed him at length elsewhere, before and after this book methinks. I think my point to Margi was as far as I know the more serious folks today in the UK don?t advise people to read his output as a first point of call, or as a pivotal opus or give the impression his Astro is the bees knees, as she was implying may be more the case in ' Europe?. Maybe he?s more known in Canada as the stuff is in French. Has it been translated into Italian, and/or is there another explanation?

Erich Carl K?hr, Thomas Ring, Liz Greene

34
Good afternoon,

According to AstroWiki in German, the two volumes of Herr Erich Carl K?hr's Psychologische Horoskopdeutung (Psychological Delineation of the Horoscope) were published in 1938 and 1941. The two volumes of Herr Thomas Ring's Astrologische Menschenkunde (Astrological Anthropology) were published in 1956 and 1959. These two were not the only German astrologers involved in psychological astrology.

Ms Liz Greene is at least one generation later. Her first book Saturn - a new look at an old devil was published in 1976.

By the way, expertise in one branch of astrology, ex. gr. genethliacal, does not necessarily imply expertise in another, for example mundane. Several known astrological authors have not published any predictions at all and often opine that prediction is impossible. Nevertheless, they occasionally publish hindsight astrological analyses of events.

Best regards,

lihin
Non esse nihil non est.

35
Lithin wrote:
According to AstroWiki in German, the two volumes of Herr Erich Carl K?hr's Psychologische Horoskopdeutung (Psychological Delineation of the Horoscope) were published in 1938 and 1941. The two volumes of Herr Thomas Ring's Astrologische Menschenkunde (Astrological Anthropology) were published in 1956 and 1959. These two were not the only German astrologers involved in psychological astrology.
I assume you have mentioned these authors because they made a contribution to modern European mundane astrology like Andre Balbault? Can you just clarify please what books on mundane astrology these authors wrote? Otherwise I am confused why their names have popped up in this discussion.

Thanks

Mark
Last edited by Mark on Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

36
Nixx wrote:
Maybe he?s more known in Canada as the stuff is in French. Has it been translated into Italian, and/or is there another explanation?
Maybe Margherita can help us with the latter bit here? Is Barbault widely known amongst Italian astrologers or is he totally off the radar as he seems to be for a lot of English speakers?

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

37
i'm classified as a canuck.. i found out about barbault thru the book i mentioned earlier..

on another level, who really cares about that nationality one is in regards to reading particular authors? are we interested in talking astrology, or nationalities of barbault readers?
i am interested in the astro - thanks!

38
Mark wrote:known amongst Italian astrologers or is he totally off the radar as he seems to be for a lot of English speakers?
Barbault is considered the most important astrologer in Italy and many of his books has been translated in Italian. As I already wrote, not just for nativities (but he wrote book about nativities, maybe focused on Freudian astrology, different from Liz Greene in every case), better for mundane astrology and planetary cycles.

There are tons of astrologers dealing with his planetary cycles applied to everything from history to Stock market.

This is a short list of his Italian books

http://www.deastore.com/autore/Andr%C3% ... bault.html

As mentioned I don't like very much neither him or his followers but to be honest it seems to me that he predicted some years ago a world crisis in 2010 connected to some planetary cycle (I don't know which).

margherita
Traditional astrology at
http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com

39
lihin wrote: By the way, expertise in one branch of astrology, ex. gr. genethliacal, does not necessarily imply expertise in another, for example mundane. Several known astrological authors have not published any predictions at all and often opine that prediction is impossible. Nevertheless, they occasionally publish hindsight astrological analyses of events.
I think we all know that to even bother with Mundane requires at the very least a PhD in History and in Natal Psychology.

Someone with your erudition may be able to enlighten as to when the Horoscopy was first inked to 'prediction', thus transcending the perspective that is a means to attain wisdom through knowing thyself.
Assume you have mentioned these authors because they made a contribution to modern European mundane astrology like Andre Balbault? Can you just clarify please what books on mundane astrology these authors wrote? Otherwise I am confused why their names have popped up in this discussion.
Well did he speak German? he was active mid 20th century, He wrote this in 1961.
?De la psychanalyse ? l'astrologie?

If we knew more about his mundane astrology we could see to what extent he has been influenced by Psychoanalysis and/or the Germans. He references Laforgue in his Napoleon. Margi mentions Freud which would not surprise me as France is a more psychoanalytically influenced land mass than the UK. Just recently there was a big scandal when it was discovered that today, decades after these ideas were rejected by specialists, many if not most State employed Psychiatrists cling onto the idea Autism is caused by a dysfunctional mother/child attachment.

I may have been a bit dim here, looking at his site again a fair few articles are in Italian. Those things can have simple explanations such as a single fan with a bi lingual bent. Tyl has fans in Russia I think and Frawley in Poland, which may be a translation effect as well. If so then folks in these countires are going to need deprogramming if they embrace the thinking that Western Astrology should be embraced as a series of footnotes to Plato.

.

40
margherita wrote: As mentioned I don't like very much neither him or his followers but to be honest it seems to me that he predicted some years ago a world crisis in 2010 connected to some planetary cycle (I don't know which).

margherita
So this is, also?, an inaccurate prediction ?

41
Nixx wrote:
So this is, also?, an inaccurate prediction ?
I would say an accurate one. Barbault talked about the world crisis of 2010, the one we are living, at least since 2000. I heard about it tons of times from his followers, but I don't know exactly from which planetary cycle should derive, really I don't know.

Just I heard and heard about it, I cannot say more,

ADDED:

I found this (in French) from January 2009 but i'm sure Barbault was saying this since years before

http://www.andrebarbault.com/crise_2010.htm

margherita
Traditional astrology at
http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com