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Quotidian and PSSR Charts

 
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4629
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:27 pm    Post subject: Quotidian and PSSR Charts Reply with quote

Hello All,

I have a very basic query about these kinds of charts. I wonder if one of our sidereal members would be kind enough to explain in plain English what these kind of charts are? I confess I am a bit fuzzy like many tropicalists what these techniques actually involve.

If I understand correctly the Progressed Sidereal Solar Return chart (PSSR) as developed by Cyril Fagan involves progressing the radix SR chart. From what i have read Fagan’s PSSR chart progresses the chart angles by about 1.25 degrees per day and utilizes the Solar Return planets which it progresses on a day-for-a-year or “secondary progression” basis. Is this right?

Then we come to so called Quotidian daily charts. These are much discussed in sidereal circles but I haven't seen a basic description of what is going on for the uninitiated like myself. Could someone out there explain?

Thanks!

Mark
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Atlantean



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 396

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Mark,

Steve and Bob (Unique Astrology) have been getting great mileage out of various quotidian methods. Either can likely explain the main ideas of the technique...

As for PSSR, your definition seems right... basically progressed solar returns with precession expunged. I use the PSSR all the time...mainly as a corroboration for rectifications.

From my life:

Mother dies, Mars conjunct Moon (0° 1' orb)

Son born, Mars conjunct Node (0° 2' orb)

Met future Wife during trip to Germany, Jupiter conjunct Descendant (0° 1' orb)

Married, Moon conjunct Sun, (0° 2' orb)

Move overseas, Node trine Jupiter, (0° 0' orb)

Ex-Wife dies, SNode inconjunct 8th, (0° 1' orb)

By the way, the (free) program, Astro, does PSSR's (as well as Topocentric Primary Directions). You can find it on my website. To use on a newer computer, you'll need a "Dos-wrapper", such as DosBox.

Peace

James
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4629
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello James,

Thanks. I am just looking for a really basic explanation of the techniques.

So what exactly are quotidian charts? Its typical of astrologers to give you chart examples. However, I am starting from from the conceptual step before that. What exactly are we doing in the quotidian chart? I know the word quotidian comes from the Latin for daily. So are these connected to what are called 'diurnals' in tropical astrology? The only other use of the term quotidian I am familiar with is related to the alternative method of calculating secondary progressed angles. Quotidian SP house cusps are based on the literal day for a year rather than the conventional method based on primary directions. Hence the house cusps move far faster than in conventional SP charts. However, is the sidereal use of the term something else again? If so what exactly?

Mark
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dadsnook



Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 24
Location: Boston area, MA in USA

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:26 am    Post subject: PSSR and Quotidian charts Reply with quote

PSSR Charts are daily charts based on the previous Solar Return (Sidereal or precession-corrected Tropical). The daily chart angles are progressed from the prior S/R at a rate which is close to 1.25 degrees per day (as a flat rate progression) and overlaid with the Equation of Time factor for the S/R date and chosen/event date. The actual progression can be based on using Sidereal Time for successive Solar Returns (about 6 hours) plus 24 hours --- and then dividing the 30 hours or so result by 365.25 days to get a daily progression rate. Similarly, one can take the difference between two successive Solar Return MC positions (about 90 degrees) and add 360 degrees, then dividing by 365.25 to get the daily progression rate. In both methods an adjustment is made for the Equation of Time from the Solar Return date to any chosen/event date.

This form of charting presents a dual cycle in which the Sun advances 360 degrees over the course of a year while the MC advances some 450 degrees over that same period. This MC-Solar Cycle provides the daily charts with quickly moving angles which appear to "time" events when natal, solar and/or transiting angles are contacted. Siderealists also use the Progressed S/R Moon on a day-for-a-year basis.

Quotidian charts are also based on the Solar Return but the angles, the MC angle specifically, are advanced at the same rate as the Sun is advanced on a daily basis. The angles and the Sun are in lock step. At the end of the year on the 364th day, the progressed MC is one degree short of its previous S/R position. On the 365th day, the MC jumps some 90 degrees forward to the following Solar Return MC position. This is a discontinuous cycle and seems to me to be conceptually flawed. However, it does work.

My practice with these charts, the PSSR and the Quotidian differs from most Siderealists. In PSSR charts I find great interpretive value with angles being contacted by PSSR angles, as well as with certain midpoint structures that work well with these charts.

In Quotidian charts I have really deviated from standard Sidereal practices. Based on the Sun-to-MC arc angle, I look for any combination of natal, solar or daily transiting planets that have this same angle. The use of EQUAL ANGLES in these charts can yield rich and phenomenal results. I have written and given an example of this approach in the August 2011 issue of ISAR's International Astrologer journal using charts concerning Alan Turing's tragic end of life and recent memorization.

An earlier issue, perhaps Dec. of 2010, concerned the lost burial of Copernicus and his recent location and honoring focused on PSSRs and the manner in which I use them.

I work with precession corrected Tropical Zodiac charting whenever the use of natal charts and charts cast for years later are involved. I find that the correction improves the timing greatly. Tropical astrologers using a natal chart and a progressed or directed chart have no need to consider precession correction because the time differences (days and weeks) are small even though the symbolic time spans are large.

Dave
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Atlantean



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 396

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Mark

Re: "Thanks. I am just looking for a really basic explanation of the techniques."

Sorry. In that case, consider my examples above as inspiration to delve further. Wink

Dave is right, especially about the PSSR. At events, one finds normally correct symbolism within just scant minutes of arc, establishing the angles/cusps tightly. (topocentric matches these angles)

Have fun, it's a very useful technique.

James
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lifestudent



Joined: 27 Nov 2013
Posts: 80
Location: Earth

Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see this is an old thread. But I would like to ask anyway, how do you use this technique for rectification (in reverse)? Like when you see that the angles are always a bit off when you progress the solar return, how do you go about correcting them?

Like f.ex. if you see that the appropriate symbolism is hit by an angle maybe a few days off consistantly, what does that mean in terms of rectifying natal chart?
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Atlantean



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 396

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello lifestudent,

Isaac (Starkman) uses this technique (PSSR) in order to limit the needed search range for rectifications.

The concept is easy... find the possible birthtimes during the day when certain obviously-connected astrological aspects are still within orb.

For a specific example, please read Isaac's rectification of Thomas Jefferson here, http://issuu.com/considerations/docs/14-4 (beginning on page 88 ).


Last edited by Atlantean on Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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lifestudent



Joined: 27 Nov 2013
Posts: 80
Location: Earth

Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:27 am    Post subject: Thank you Reply with quote

Thank you very much Atlantean
Does your nick indicate your location, somewhere close to the Atlantic Ocean? Smile

I will look into this method from Isaac Starkman.

Through my astrology years I've gone through periods of my rectification interest since the angles in my chart have already encountered a meetup with a few planets. But I haven't come to a concrete conclusion, because there are a few different possibilities, but all within around 1 hour.

The rectified chart needs to live up to both progressed by solar arc, progressed by normal method and also I need to see it fit important solar returns and preferably progressed solar returns. Sometimes the recorded time seems to fit, could be off only about 4-12 minutes ...but sometimes a birth time up to 20-40 minutes earlier seems to fit. I look forward to the time when I can finally just settle and tell myself that I got it Very Happy
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Atlantean



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 396

Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello lifestudent,

Re: Rectification

Your best bet will likely come from lining up appropriate astrological aspects to events across your entire event list. I would recommend using Topocentric Primary Directions, since slight changes in the birthtime move the dynamic aspect maturity far in time, making it easier to hone in on a precise time...

Re: "...progressed by normal method..."

Hopefully, that entails using the Angles/Cusps progressed by the Sun's progression in Right Ascension as that will introduce the smallest orbs...

How many dated events for your life do you have?

Take care,

James
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lifestudent



Joined: 27 Nov 2013
Posts: 80
Location: Earth

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I have tried those progressions as well as the Solar Arc directions.
I have quite a few events and I also look into transits to relocated angles.

Do you have the Polaris software?
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Atlantean



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 396

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes.
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