skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Lilly's Considerations
compiled by D. Houlding
Book II of Carmen Astrologicum by Dorotheus
translated by David Pingree
Compiled by Deborah Houlding
The Babylonian Astrolabe: the Calendar of Creation, by Rumen K. Kolev
Reviewed by Gill Zukovskis

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Navamsha Transits
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Indian and Asian astrology
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
delaforge



Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 87

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 10:51 am    Post subject: Navamsha Transits Reply with quote

In the Navamsha thread, Therese suggested that those interested in investigating the navamsha might set up from time to time a chart for the day using two different ayanamshas. Then set up the navamshas for those charts and compare the navamsha positions with our birth charts to see if there were any significant contacts (interaspects?) between the navamshas and the birth chart. Thus on a day when one cut oneself accidentally, one would look for a close aspect between either navamsha Mars (from the transit chart) and a factor in the birth chart, or natal Mars and a factor in the corresponding navamsha. The idea – I think I have this right – is to see whether one of the navamshas performs significantly better than the other.

If I’ve got any of this muddled, Therese, please put me back on track.

Last night we were raided by the police. (Don’t worry, it turned out they’d come to the wrong address. But it was rather hair-raising until the mix-up was sorted out.) When the police began banging on the door – and shouting – I noted the time as I leapt out of my chair. So I have not only a specific day but also a specific time to investigate. The anyamshas I used were Lahiri and Fagan-Bradley.

Before getting to the navamshas for the transiting planets, a word about the event chart and the relation between the event chart and my natal chart. No matter what the navamsha, Rahu is in close conjunction (less than one degree) with the ascendant. Between the event charts and the natal charts (there are two of each, one set using the Lahiri ayamasha, the other with the Fagan-Bradly ayanamsha), there’s little difference as regards interaspects. In both cases, transiting Saturn is in partile conjunction with natal Jupiter. With the Lahiri charts, this conjunction takes place across signs. I don’t know if this makes any difference. The planets are 29 minutes apart.

I can manage the Rahu conjunct ascendant – Rahu throws a shadow over the proceedings, either faulty intelligence or someone wrongly identifying our block of apartments (one among many) being to blame. But I can’t make anything of Saturn conjunct Jupiter.

Now to the navamshas of the event charts. Using the Lahiri navamsha, transiting Mercury (transiting navamsha [TNa] Mercury) is conjoined Natal Venus (26 minutes apart) and TNa Mars is square N Venus (46 minutes apart). (I'm not even sure one is permitted to use squares.) Using the Fagan-Bradley ayanamsha, there is only a TNa Rahu conjunction with N Jupiter in evidence. This also occurs across signs and the grahas are 52 minutes apart.

Although there’s only the one valid interaspect in the Fagan-Badley example, I feel it describes my situation better as it was IMO Rahuic in the extreme. Plus, the factors involved are factors that show up in the event chart and the birth chart compared with the event chart: Rahu, who in the event chart is in partile conjunction with the Ascendant, and natal Jupiter, who is conjoined transiting Saturn.

Am aware this could be special pleading as I favor the Fagan-Badley ayanamsha. And am relying on Therese for some pointers as she’s the person with most experience with this technique.

I’ll add that there are contacts to my natal ascendant using both ayanamshas (though as is to be expected the contacts are different in each case). Problem is, my birth time isn’t known for sure. I have a putative birth time which I use to my own satisfaction but it works to my satisfaction using the F-B ayanamsha, so I’m willing to treat it as suspect. And that’s why I haven’t included any interaspects involving it in the outline above.

Melissa
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 685
Location: California, USA

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Melissa,

Would you be willing to post your birth data? I know this is personal, and you may not want to do that. But for this discussion we really need facts such as the time, date and location of the police raid (big event!).

I'll also clarify what we are looking for in relation to the transiting navamsa:

(1) Close or exact DEGREE CONJUNCTIONS to a planet, the ascendant or MC degree in the RASI chart. Since the point 90 degrees from the ascendant is important (the zenith point), that point can also perhaps be used. But the planets and ascendant are the most important points.

(2) Close CONJUNCTIONS ONLY to planets in the navamsa chart from the transiting navamsa planets.

I've noticed, Melissa, that you tend to include many factors in your posts, and I think it's important to limit our perceptions to a few at a time. Otherwise we'll end up in a mass of confusion. Astrology is so very complex even as it is.

It might be best for starters to limit ourselves to #1 above: Note only transiting navamsa conjuctions to natal rasi planets and the ascendant. That will keep it very simple. Wait for an important day or event, and then check the transiting navamsa positions.

Melissa, I'll read your post more carefully a bit later. Today is mostly filled up with various responsibilities.

Therese
_________________
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
delaforge



Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 87

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:50 pm    Post subject: Navamsha Transits Reply with quote

Therese wrote:

Quote:
Would you be willing to post your birth data? I know this is personal, and you may not want to do that. But for this discussion we really need facts such as the time, date and location of the police raid (big event!).

I'm sorry, Therese, but I don't want to share my birth data. I know it's inconvenient in a situation like this and basically I agree with you that, for this discussion, the data, both of my birth and of the police raid, are key ... but I am loth to do it.

Your suggestions have been very helpful. I had a feeling that contacts between the charts would be limited to conjunctions only. In fact, it's something of a relief to know that I only have to look for conjunctions!

Had not compared the event chart navamshas with the birth chart navamshas. Will do that tomorrow. (Drained now.) I know you wanted to limit further discussion for now to the event chart navamsha and the birth chart but I want to do this to satisfy my own curiosity. Will keep the results to myself.

On the navamsha thread - but re the current thread - you wrote:

Quote:
I'd say for effective research, we should check for contacts only within two degrees or so, and then keep a list of the exact positions.

I've reported contacts between the event chart and the birth chart that were within one degree. There weren't any up to two degrees and I didn't go looking for aspects wider than two degrees. In work such as this my predisposition is keep orbs to within one degree, give or take the odd few minutes.

I've also kept track of the exact planetary positions.

And will stick to this routine.

Further direction for from you will be much appreciated.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
varuna2



Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 323
Location: Lemuria

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

delete

Last edited by varuna2 on Sat May 04, 2013 6:59 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 685
Location: California, USA

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only have a few minutes left today for the internet, but I've decided that the concept of the transiting navamsa (though interesting) is going to give us all headaches trying to reseach it. It seems to me it would be a lot more helpful to relate the actual planets in the sky to our own navamsa charts.

The navamsa chart is a harmonic. It's like there's one large bell (the actual zodiac signs), and then the navamsa signs are small bells that have the same tone. So if a current planet rings the large bell, the smaller bells will ring as well. Or will the small bell alone respond to a current planet?

So it makes it easy to have our two navamsa charts at hand, and simply watch the planets as they move through the sky. Especially we might find it significant if one of the slower planets retrogrades on one of our navamsa planets, but we don't have a planet in that sign in the rasi chart.

I don't see much sense in working with the transiting navamsa until we see if our own navamsa planets respond to real planetary transits. It will be easy to watch two sets of navamsa planets (F-B and L or K) that are nine degrees apart if we use an orb of less than two degrees.

The Moon moves very fast, and will go through navamsa charts nine times each month.

I discovered, as Melissa did, that trying to watch transiting navamsa planets is draining....it actually gave me a pretty bad headache. So I vote to watch only natal navamsa charts.

Therese
_________________
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 685
Location: California, USA

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Melissa, at the time of the police raid (which you so artfully timed!), did the Moon or Mercury conjoin a planet in either of your navamsa charts?

Therese
_________________
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 685
Location: California, USA

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I basically live as a renunciate...a life of silence and meditation amidst the daily chores and responsibilities. But yesterday since the eclipse path was in our area, I went with others to an outdoor eclipse viewing party in the park. It was very pleasant, but an unusual way for me to spend the day. People had come from many hours away to view the eclipse, probably as far south as San Francisco. This was a BIG event for our little town, and the park is across from my house though hidden by a buffer zone.

With the Krisnamurti ayanamsa, the eclipse itself was in the degree of my navamsa ascendant:
6 Tau 01: Navamsa ascendant
6 Tau 24: Eclipse (Sun-Moon conjunction)

Then I thought I might as well check the transiting navamsa planets:
18 Ari 09 Natal Jupiter in 5th (was there with a daughter and others)
18 Ari 42 Natal Saturn in 5th
18 Ari 45 Transiting navamsa Mercury

26 Vir 54 Natal MC
25 Vir 12 Transiting navamsa Venus (social experience with female family and friends)

I didn't bother to check the F-B chart since I've tested it and discarded it in the past. I know the F-B navamsa ascendant is in Aries. It's interesting that the transiting planets fit the event quite well.
_________________
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
delaforge



Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 87

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:11 pm    Post subject: Navamsha Transits Reply with quote

Therese wrote

Quote:
Melissa, at the time of the police raid (which you so artfully timed!), did the Moon or Mercury conjoin a planet in either of your navamsa charts?

I've checked the event chart against my natal navamsha for the Fagan-Bradley and the KP ayanamshas. (Lahiri won't be much different from KP, will it?). In the event chart Moon and Mercury are about three degrees apart, in Aries. There are no factors - ascendant, planets, nodes - in that area in any of the navamsha charts. So the answer to your question is: No, neither the Moon nor Mercury conjoin any planets in any of the three natal navamsha charts.

I have compared the Event Navamsha and the Natal Navamsha charts set for all three ayanamshas. I get the same results for all of them, even though the planets are in different degrees in all cases. Have I done something wrong or is this the usual outcome? What I find is this:-

There is one allowable aspect between the Event Navamsha and the Natal Navamsha using any of the three ayanamshas. EN Sun is conjunct NN Venus (distance of separation 1 degree 8 minutes). It may show my domestic happiness (Venus) encroached on by the might of the law (Sun = power).

There's also something unallowable. EN Neptune conjoins NN Mc. (I know, I know. But it matches the situation, with Neptunian confusion reigning supreme - if only for about 10 minutes.) Separation 1 degree 13 minutes.

I'm not able to do any further investigation today, to check if I've made an error somewhere (twice!) or if all EN and NN charts will show the same results no matter what ayanamsha is used. The idea that the latter proposition is true is looming through the mirk of my mind but, like I say, can't follow that up today. Have to attend to my non-astrological life.

Melissa
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
delaforge



Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 87

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject: Navamsha Transits Reply with quote

Varuna,

Before signing out for the day:-

I have absolutely no experience with the ashtakavargas. Am struggling with the navamsha and navamsha transits. Can't go into a new area right now. I know you mean well, but I just can't do it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
varuna2



Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 323
Location: Lemuria

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

delete

Last edited by varuna2 on Sat May 04, 2013 6:57 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 685
Location: California, USA

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 9:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Navamsha Transits Reply with quote

Melissa wrote:
Quote:
...I've checked the event chart against my natal navamsha for the Fagan-Bradley and the KP ayanamshas. (Lahiri won't be much different from KP, will it?).

No, for the most part the difference in the Rasi chart between Lahiri and Krishnamurti is negligible. The same in the navasma chart as the navamsa degrees will only be about a degree apart. But sometimes this difference matters as with Ian Brady's Jupiter.

The easiest comparison is between F-B and Krishnamaurti because those two ayanamsas are 59 minutes apart. So we can use the rough estimate of one degree. So in the natal charts we can make a quick mental adjustment of one degree backwards from K to F-B or one degree forward from F-B for the K degrees.

In the navamsa chart we can make a quick mental adjustment of nine degrees forward from F-B to Krishnamurti or nine degrees backward from K to F-B.

I'm thinking, Melissa, that the police raid may not have been important enough to show strong results in this research. The incident was traumatic, but didn't have any significant results. It was an accident. I would only expect a Moon transit, but you said there was no contact with planets.

Quote:
I have compared the Event Navamsha and the Natal Navamsha charts set for all three ayanamshas. I get the same results for all of them, even though the planets are in different degrees in all cases. Have I done something wrong or is this the usual outcome? What I find is this:-

There is one allowable aspect between the Event Navamsha and the Natal Navamsha using any of the three ayanamshas. EN Sun is conjunct NN Venus (distance of separation 1 degree 8 minutes).

I'm not quite understanding this since the natal navamsa positions should be nine degrees different between F-B and K. Eight degrees between F-B and Lahiri.

Quote:
There's also something unallowable. EN Neptune conjoins NN Mc. (I know, I know. But it matches the situation, with Neptunian confusion reigning supreme - if only for about 10 minutes.) Separation 1 degree 13 minutes.

Well, maybe the navasma M.C. point is valid! It's only a theory that it may not be valid. But the three natal navamsa M.C.s should be different with the three ayanamsas. But Neptune on the M.C. seems very fitting for a "mistaken identity" event. Which navamsa chart has Neptune on the M.C.?

I'm not sure how you are calculathing these charts, Melissa, or what program you're using. I use Solar Fire which calcualates the navamsa chart directly from the natal chart, but I have to ask for it. It's a separate process. But my Indian program puts them both on the screen at once. The calculation is automatic.

But this topic is too much of a brain twister, and I'm willing to give it a rest. I've studied a few charts, and the transiting navamsa does seem to be significant. But I see this as an advanced technique that needs a lot more research. It's a bit too detailed for a discussion forum.

Therese
_________________
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 685
Location: California, USA

Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ashtakavarga: I've found it not so clearcut as it would seem, but it's a different topic from the navamsa. For anyone not used to using it, ashtakavarga can be the straw that breaks the back of Jyotish. I know that those who write the books on ashtakvarga make it sound like a glowing technique, but I haven't found it so.

Therese
_________________
http://www.snowcrest.net/sunrise/LostZodiac.htm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
varuna2



Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 323
Location: Lemuria

Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delete

Last edited by varuna2 on Sat May 04, 2013 6:58 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
delaforge



Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 87

Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 7:23 am    Post subject: Navamsha Transits Reply with quote

Therese,
I did use Solar Fire to calculate these charts.
Neptune conjunct MC occurs whatever ayanamsha I use. Both aspects I found occur in the relevant charts no matter which ayanamsha I’ve used. Here are the details.

Lahiri Event Navamsha: Sun 16° Aqu 59ʹ - Birth Chart Navamsha: Venus 18° Aqu 07ʹ
KP Event Navamsha: Sun 17° Aqu 51ʹ - Birth Chart Navamsha: Venus 18° Aqu 59ʹ
Fagan-Bradley Event Navamsha: Sun 9° Aqu 02ʹ - Birth Chart Navamsha: Venus 10° Aqu 10ʹ

Lahiri Event Navamsha: Neptune 21° Sag 26ʹ - Birth Chart Navamsha: MC 22° Sag 39ʹ
KP Event Navamsha: Neptune 22° Sag 18ʹ - Birth Chart Navamsha: MC 23° Sag 31ʹ
Fagan-Bradley Event Navamsha: Neptune 13° Sag 29ʹ - Birth Chart Navamsha: MC 14° Sag 42ʹ

I am perplexed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
delaforge



Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 87

Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:58 am    Post subject: Navamsha Transits Reply with quote

Varuna,

I have the Jagannatha Hora program. I have worked with this program and with Solar Fire on the Navamsha Transit project.

I am not ready to branch off and explore Ashtakavargas. I am seriously thinking of going back to an earlier thread on the Navamsha, which I started in the hope of being able to gain practice at interpreting the navamsha. I haven't touched Gore Vidal's navamsha for three days now.

I had to move from Jagannatha Hora to Solar Fire because I couldn't find out how to get at the precise navamsha positions for planets in JH. Varuna, if you can tell me how to find precise navamsha positions in JH - signs, degrees, minutes and seconds - I would be very grateful.

Melissa
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Indian and Asian astrology All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated