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hyleg, what type of aspects to use?/chart

 
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AstroNovice



Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 153
Location: United States

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:10 am    Post subject: hyleg, what type of aspects to use?/chart Reply with quote

Are you supposed to use placidus or whole sign chart for calculating hyleg? Secondly, assuming that the sun or moon is not the hyleg and you have to resort to using the ascendant or the POF, are we only considering aspects by degrees from the domicile/almuten lord? Or do whole sign aspects count as well?
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Yukionna



Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 105

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been a while, but as far as I remember it's like this (at least according to what's taught by Robert Zoller):

you can use both Placidus or WS , but if the Hyleg falls in eg 11th Placidus but 12th WS, it's better to take another Hyleg if possible. Same if it's the other way around.

As far as aspects (I presume you're asking about finding the Alcocoden) are concerned I quote the following from an excerpt I made from Zoller's course:

A planet aspecting the Hyleg is prefered. However, a Planet with 3 dignities and no aspect is prefered to one with one dignity and and an aspect.


So as an aspect doesn't seem to be entirely necessary, a WS-aspect should be ok, provided the planet or light has enough dignity in the place of the Hyleg. Although I can't imagine this to apply also to planets in a place of aversion to the place of the Hyleg...

Also interesting:

If there is any planet in the 1st or 10th with max. 3 degree orb before or 5 degrees after the cusp, take him whether he has dignity on the degree of the Hyleg or not.If he has dignity there he will be stronger then another outside of these places even if this other will have equal dignity in the place of the Hyleg.

So it seems that the Alcocoden doesn't always has to be one of the rulers of the Hyleg. Confusing stuff.
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AstroNovice



Joined: 24 Jun 2012
Posts: 153
Location: United States

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so he is basically saying if there is an angular 1st or 10th house planet to use that instead of the alcocoden?

I agree, this is extremely confusing stuff.

I was actually snooping around the internet earlier looking for more information about it and I stumbled across this article:

http://starlightknightastrology.com/tag/hyleg/

Which shows how abysmally bad the hyleg was at predicting length of life, which in turn made me question the validity of the hyleg concept itself. That on top of the fact that there are so many different ways of calculating it makes me wonder how anybody can get good results from hyleg Confused Confused Confused
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Martin Gansten
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Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Posts: 1050
Location: Malmö, Sweden

Posted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AstroNovice wrote:
Which shows how abysmally bad the hyleg was at predicting length of life, which in turn made me question the validity of the hyleg concept itself.

Please note the difference between predicting length of life by directing the hyleg (primary directions, the method of Ptolemy) and by arithmetical methods based on the alcochoden concept. These are two very different methods.
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Yukionna



Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 105

Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The point with the Alcocoden technique is, you really have to know your basics in order to judge whether an aspecting planet adds or subtracts years, months or weeks and just how many. And then you run into all these contradictory problems of classical astrology, such as: is a planet on the 29th degree already in the dignity of the following sign, is a planet on 0 degree weakened, is there such a thing as combustion (Morin would disagree), what's with reception, can a cadent planet in its own domicile sign still give or take years or is it too weak to do anything etc, etc. So it is in fact excellent practice, it's just that one has to be aware of all this and treat the whole subject with care.
I find it very fascinating and hope to be able to finish Mr.Gansten's book on Primary Directions one day so I'll have more tools available.
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