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Sun conjunct moon in solar return
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Martin Gansten
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Joined: 05 Jul 2008
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
Also could you please give the reference where Partridge mentions progressions or minor returns? I assume its somewhere in his Ptolemy/Placidus inspired Opus Reformatum?

I had a quick look, and they are mentioned on pp. 45-46, though in no great detail. I don't know if Partridge dealt with them elsewhere. There had been other Placidean authors in England, of course, including Bishop and Kirby; but I can't recall Worsdale mentioning them. Partridge seems to have been more or less the only other astrologer Worsdale had any time for.
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san



Joined: 25 Oct 2005
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Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ile wrote:
Hi SAN,

Can you please give the reference of the thing that Sun and Moon conjunct in Solar Return brings death to one of the parents?
I have it too this year so it would be very good to know the source of the saying and how much believable is.

I agree with the point Tom made. I also use the 3 indicators 'rule'.



Hi Ile,

I am sorry for late reaction. I forgot that I have posted this subject on forum that's why.
Answer to your question: I read about Sun & Moon conjunction in an very old Dutch book named : "Astrologishe chronologie" from the author Cornelise Gorter.

I know this information would not help you much because the book is not to find translated to English unfortunately.
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astralwanderer



Joined: 20 Dec 2012
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Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:31 pm    Post subject: Metonic Cycle Reply with quote

Hi there - this is a rather old thread. However, you might want to consider looking at the NM 19 years prior to the one in your solar return. Essentially, there should be a NM very close to the solar return that occurred 19 years ago (i.e. 19 years before the one that currently interests you).

This is the Metonic cycle, and after 19 years, the Sun and the Moon return to the same degrees of the zodiac on the same day of the year. If you have a NM on or about the solar return, it is likely to be a significant lunation in the Metonic cycle. Similar themes may occur at both lunations.

Note that this is not the same as the nodal return cycle, of about 18.6 years. The metonic cycle links lunations, which may or may not be eclipses, rather than linking eclipses, which is the Saros cycle.

I don't know if using the Metonic cycle in this way is an ancient technique, but certainly the Metonic cycle has been known about since classical times.

All the best. Ed
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margherita



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Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last day of 2012 Rita Levi Montalcini, the Italian Nobel-prize winner died at the age of 103. (pictures from Phasis)

She had in her solar return Sun/Moon conjunction (hers is a night chart)



and a mundane opposition between Mars/Sun



Obviously I don't think someone can die with a moon/sun conjunction, but we know that the Sun can be an anareta

Quote:
When the moon is the prorogator, the place of the sun also destroys.


In Montalcini's chart the Moon is in the 6th house, but not so far from the Descendant, and the chart is nocturnal.

Montalcini data http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Levi-Montalcini,_Rita

margherita
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san



Joined: 25 Oct 2005
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Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear astrology friends,

I posted the question about solar return aspect sun moon conjunction in 4th house on the forum somewhere in may this year because I had a feeling that I will loose one of my parents this year.

Your comment that it needs to be at least 3 significations for it is probably true. Only I didn't find the third one.
This Sun/Moon conjunction is in 4th house and the Moon is the lord of solar return 10th house.
My mother died just a couple of days ago. Sad

It is so scary to see that astrology really works.
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cor scorpii



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very sorry to hear that Sad

If it is a nocturnal chart, then the Moon is the natural ruler of mother as well and combustion is the worst that can happen to the lesser light (or any other planet for that matter) - especially in one of the houses having universal signification toward endings/death.

Would it be too much to ask for the birth chart data?

Regards,
Goran
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Last edited by cor scorpii on Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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san



Joined: 25 Oct 2005
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Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

" the combustion is the worst that can happen to the lesser light (or any other planet for that matter) - specially in one of the houses having universal signification toward endings/death."

Hi Goran,

thanks for your message and compassion because it still pains a lot..

Interesting, what you have just mentioned about "the combustion". I didn't know that.

here are my birth data's.
I was born in Sremska Mitrovica (Serbia) but I live in Holland so the solar chart is for the place where I live = Nijmegen, Holland.

12 January 1974 at 13:10
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james_m



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Posted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi san,

my condolences on the loss of your mother.

thanks for sharing your personal data so that others can learn more about astrology.

i suppose there are a number of ways one can make a connection between the natal chart and a solar return. while some might view the solar return chart as a stand alone chart, i find it helpful to consider the natal chart as well. with the data you have shared - the sun/mercury in cap in your natal chart is in the 8th house by whole sign houses. the conjunction in the return lands in the natal 8th, while the saturn- mars square in the return chart connects directly to the midheaven axis via conjunction/square.. the sun rules the 4th house using the midheaven axis. mercury rules the whole sign 4th.. the degree of the return moon is exactly conjunct natal mercury. there are many connections and i would say all of these connections back to the natal chart are suggestive, not just the sun/moon conjunction in the 4th house of the return chart.

if given a choice, i prefer using the natal chart as the primary chart and overlapping the data from the return onto the natal chart. perhaps someone can read a solar return chart independent of the natal chart, but it doesn't make as much sense to me to do that.

thanks so much for sharing..
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san



Joined: 25 Oct 2005
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Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"my condolences on the loss of your mother"

Thank you!

"thanks for sharing your personal data so that others can learn more about astrology"

you are most welcome together with others on this site!
I know how important it is for the study of astrology.

I agree about considering the natal chart as primary chart. Nothing in solar chart has a value or can stand alone without connections from the natal.
I was just confused that I couldn't find more connections.

I never use the whole sign houses system because I doubt if we then maybe going "to far" ? in our research to prove what happened..

If we want we can always find more than one significant aspect so, we could never predict anything with any certainty.. however thanks for sharing James I learn to look from other points of view as well.

p.s. to be honest don't like my chart when using the whole sign house system. Rolling Eyes
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

san wrote:
I was just confused that I couldn't find more connections.

I'm very sorry for your loss. As for connections, the most obvious ones to me are probably these:

- Moon to the opposition of Mars by direct motion (primary direction)
- Moon to the square of Mars by converse motion (primary direction, using 'converse' in the traditional sense)
- Saturn in the revolution conjunct directed Moon (= opposite natal Mars)
- Mars in the revolution square directed Moon (= square natal Mars)

There is more, but it depends on whether you use the tropical or sidereal revolution, etc, so I'll leave that aside for now. I'd imagine the Moon transiting opposite natal Mars was a critical point?
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cor scorpii



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for kindly providing your birth data Thumbs up

Losing a parent is surely one of the worst things that befalls man...


The chart is diurnal, so Venus is the primary significator of your mother - all the more so, as she is also posited in the 10th(mother). Venus is afflicted by a close applying square (within three degrees orb, in the bounds of the same planet Venus which represents a particularly powerful bond!) with contrary to sect/domain Mars who rules the 6th and is posited in the 12th, having authority in the 8th by kingdom. I assume she had suffered from Venus related illness(members of generation/belly?) for some time before she died (fixed signs involved). Mars' maleficence is further exacerbated by its position on malefic Hamal (Mars/Saturn nature).

The solar return Mars happened to land close to Venus and in the natal 10th, the cusp of the solar 5th by Alchabitius (the 5th is the 8th from the 10th, signifying mother's death). Your solar ascendant lands in the natal 5th, reinforcing this particular signification,highlighting Venus.

Another striking detail is that the lot of the mother (17th degree of Capricorn, the 8th house) is "struck" by the relocated solar return's IC (endings/death) to the degree!

By yearly profections, Venus reaches Mars (another repetition of the natal constellation!), lot of mother lands in Aries containing the ominous lot of crisis/injury/illness, handing over its matters to malefic of the sect; Saturn hands over to the Moon in Virgo.
Your profected ascendant also comes to Virgo this year, activating the Moon as the universal significator of mother (combust by the Sun in the solar 4th); Mercury becomes LOY and in your natal chart he's conjunct the lot of mother in the 8th returning to its natal position this year in the solar 4th just a degree away from the lot! This literally signifies you (Mercury) having to do with issues pertaining to mother/death/ending(s)...

Now there are other powerful testimonies, some of them have already been mentioned by others. When I find more time, I'll post a couple of other observations.

Regards,
Goran
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san



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Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Martin Gansten "I'd imagine the Moon transiting opposite natal Mars was a critical point?"

Yes, the transiting Moon was almost there but we are not sure what time exactly she died because she was alone but we suspected that it was after the midnight. So, she died 30th of November around the midnight. At that time Moon was somewhere at the end of Libra (28degrees I guess)
The weird thing was that I was visiting My mother just the two days before she died because I felt that I need to go there to be with her and also to celebrate a bit her birthday which was on 24th of November (1942).

@ Goran Yes, I had a very strong bond with my mother! I miss her very much! Sad
I try very hard to figure out and to understand her alcohol addiction. Last 2-3 years she forgot everything and was completely lost/confused. Her psychiatrist diagnosed Alzheimer's but I don't believe it because she was to young for it.
She had more pain at her feet she could walk anymore, and she refused to use the toilet and/or pampers. So it was very, very hard to see her going down like that.

From mu own research Sagittarian (or strong Jupiter/Neptune in chart) are the most sensitive for the alcohol addiction. My mother has lost her twin brother at the birth so maybe she felt that pain of loose all her life and try to escape somehow.. don't know. Sorry for writing all this! it is my way of grieving I guess.
Sad
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cor scorpii



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Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
From mu own research Sagittarian (or strong Jupiter/Neptune in chart) are the most sensitive for the alcohol addiction.


The sources tell us that alcohol addiction is very much connected to an (corrupted) Mars and/or Venus (ruling all kinds of pleasurable pursuits).
Venus representing your mother is retrograde and ruled by a retrograde Saturn while Mars afflicts her; she receives him as well which means she endorses/accepts his evil influence.

Regards,
Goran
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james_m



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Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

san wrote:

I never use the whole sign houses system because I doubt if we then maybe going "to far" ? in our research to prove what happened..

If we want we can always find more than one significant aspect so, we could never predict anything with any certainty.. however thanks for sharing James I learn to look from other points of view as well.

p.s. to be honest don't like my chart when using the whole sign house system. Rolling Eyes


hi san,

i never read this thread, prior to a few days ago.. when i went back and read the thread before i commented my impression from what you said is you had an intuition on one of your parents and death. this was just my impression. the astro thing you latched onto was the new moon. i think people who are into astrology look for a symbol to make a connection with what they intuit. at any rate i think a focus on the 8th house in a chart can sometimes mean a person have more intuition or psychic type ability to see around corners sometimes. if you don't like whole sign houses - that is fine! i like what they tell me and it has nothing to do with making connections in hindsight to an event. even if you don't relate to the new moon landing in whole sign house 8, the sr saturn/mars square on the midheaven axis is especially relevant. i didn't mention the obvious - saturn rules your midheaven and of course you have a lot of planets in cap and aquarius regardless of what house system that gets used. thanks again for the discussion.
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james_m



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Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cor scorpii wrote:

Another striking detail is that the lot of the mother (17th degree of Capricorn, the 8th house) is "struck" by the relocated solar return's IC (endings/death) to the degree!


i get a relocated ic of 15 cap 36 in the 2013 sr using Nijmegen, Holland.

i like the sr data off the birth location and have been using it instead of relocated data for the last year or so. 2013 solar return gives 23 libra ascendant for the birth location.. sr13 moon is at 23 cap.. natal mercury is at 23 cap.
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