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Turkey and Aug 15th Mars/Saturn Conjunction

 
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 1828
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:32 pm    Post subject: Turkey and Aug 15th Mars/Saturn Conjunction Reply with quote

The chart I am using for turkey is 29 oct 1923 ankara, turkey 8.30pm with 7 cancer 47 rising.



The date of the Mars/Saturn conjunction at 24 Libra 49 is Aug 15 2012.. this duo of planets is an interesting one sometimes traditionally associated with war. the timing of this conjunction coincides with Venus in direct opposition to Pluto at 7 cardinal while Uranus is less then one degree off this, and thus creating a t square that hits directly onto turkeys rising degree mentioned above. what is interesting here is that natal Mars in turkeys chart is at 7 Libra 23, right where the t square is that i mention. what is also very interesting is natal Saturn in Turkey's chart is right where this Mars/Saturn conjunction happens.



Saturn rules Turkey's 7th house, which is traditionally the house of enemies but overall a countries relationships with other countries. I can't help but wonder about the relationships that turkey has as a key player in this part of the world bordering on the countries Syria, Iraq and Iran among others. Turkey also has an ongoing internal dynamic with the Kurdish people. Turkey also has a more challenged relationship with Israel for the past couple of years for those who follow world news.

I don't think anything is going to happen between Iran and Israel this year. I base this on examining a number of charts, including ingress charts and etc. etc. for Iran. I haven't examined Israels chart as thoroughly though and the timing of this Mars/Saturn in relation to Israels chart is interesting, no matter what the rising degree one wants to give for the Israel chart - generally anywhere from the 4pm to the 4.37pm time frame, or 23 Libra to 2 Scorpio.

I wonder if something is going to evolve out of this particular Mars/Saturn conjunction that coincides with some development in this area though. Turkey seems directly involved given these astrological patterns as I see it. of course a thorough examination of a chart has much more to do that with just transit data.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18561219
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geo



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 119
Location: Athens, Greece

Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi james,

in my search over the ingress charts of Greece from 1922 till now "A 6H Mars in joy - Aries Ingress Chart" http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=72440#72440 there was indeed a Mars/Saturn relation in years & events of military action.

In years where military action was "promised" in the ingress charts, the event was triggered when Tr.Mars or its disp aspected Tr.Saturn (conj/opp/sq) in the next cardinal sign (or previous if Rx) of the ingress Mars.
Tr.Mercury was also tightly involved in these aspects up to 8' orb.

This "rule" was true for all 3 examples (1 junta regime & 2 territorial losses). Furthemore, in the "territorial losses" case, the above mentioned aspect was 3-4 orb close, while in the junta case, it was just aspected by sign (20 orb away)

So, like you, I concluded the following, as far as Greece is concerned:

Quote:
itís gonna be another dramatic year with military action involved, joined perhaps to territorial loss. [...]
I fear Mars in Libra in July-Aug 2012 could trigger similar dramatic events.


On the other hand, Mercury is leaving cardinal cancer before Mars enters libra, so this might (hopefully) turn the above assumptions down.

Quote:
i can't help but wonder about the relationships that turkey has as a key player in this part of the world bordering on countries syria, iraq and iran among others. turkey also has an ongoing internal dymanic with the kurdish people. turkey also has a more challenged relationship with israel for the past couple of years for those who follow world news.


Turkey is located between Europe and the Oil. This alone is enough for having challenging relationships around - no astrology needed..

regards,
Georgia
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for your comments georgia! i haven't worked with ingress charts too much. i know that they are one of the main traditional tools for mundane astrology, but i have this attraction to natal charts for countries as opposed to ingress charts.. which ones do you use. if i can ask? aries ingress has always been considered the one to use. do you use this mostly, or others and if others, which ones? thanks. i will now go read your mars 6th house joy thread.
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geo



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 119
Location: Athens, Greece

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

james, it looks like you were partly right in your prediction. there was an open enemy in turkey around 15th august :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19234765
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi geo,

the kurdish situation has gotten much more difficult for turkey since the advent of syria's civil war.. syria has let the kurds in northern syria have there own autonomy which has galvanized them into more action along the border and into turkey. it is an ongoing challenge from the kurdish people and the turkish gov't that will take a long time to resolve peacefully. here is an article that summarizes my thoughts from a few weeks ago.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19021766
thanks for sharing!
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

more recent and no one has claimed responsibility yet.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19322449
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damon



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 419

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: turkey and aug 15th mars/saturn conjunction Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
the chart i am using for turkey is 29 oct 1923 ankara, turkey 830pm with 7 cancer 47 rising.

the date of the mars/saturn conjunction at 24 libra 49 is aug 15 2012.. this duo of planets is an interesting one sometimes traditionally associated with war. the timing of this conjunction coincides with venus in direct opposition to pluto at 7 cardinal while uranus is less then one degree off this, and thus creating a t square that hits directly onto turkeys rising degree mentioned above. what is interesting here is that natal mars in turkeys chart is at 7 libra 23, right where the t square is that i mention. what is also very interesting is natal saturn in turkeys chart is right where this mars/saturn conjunction happens.

saturn rules turkeys 7th house, which is traditionally the house of enemies but overall a countries relationships with other countries. i can't help but wonder about the relationships that turkey has as a key player in this part of the world bordering on countries syria, iraq and iran among others. turkey also has an ongoing internal dymanic with the kurdish people. turkey also has a more challenged relationship with israel for the past couple of years for those who follow world news.

i don't think anything is going to happen between iran and israel this year. i base this on examining a number of charts, including ingress charts and etc. etc. for iran. i haven't examined israels chart as thoroughly though and the timing of this mars/saturn in relation to israels chart is interesting, no matter what the rising degree one wants to give for the israel chart - generally anywhere from the 4pm to the 437pm time frame, or 23 libra to 2 scorpio.

i wonder if something is going to evolve out of this particular mars/saturn conjunction that coincides with some development in this area though.. turkey seems directly involved given these astrological patterns as i see it. of course a thorough examination of a chart has much more to do that with just transit data.


They are on the brink of war with Syria now.Good one James
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks damon,

turkey is entering a challenging period with t saturn moving towards its natal sun at 5 scorpio.. i suspect in and around the full moon nov 28th area the tension building up with turkey will be much more out in the open, if it isn't already fairly apparent.. the transit of mars and the conjunction of mars/pluto in around this time in combo with the transit of saturn suggest a difficult period for turkey where some decisions and actions might be made to really clarify things or clear the air for them as a country in this unfolding situation with syria and more widely the rest of the world.. i wish them well. they are in a challenging situation which i think is captured by the different predictive methods astrologers typically use..
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damon wrote:
Quote:
They are on the brink of war with Syria now.Good one James


Hi James,

Sorry I meant to congratulate you too on highlighting this one for us. Good work. I dont think it was on many people's radar.

But as you highlighted yourself this first sparked off in June rather than August with the shooting down of that Turkish fighter.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18561219

So the roots of this seem to actually predate the Mars-Saturn conjunction. What do you think explains that?

Mark
_________________
''Man is troubled not by events, but by the meaning he gives them"

Epictetus


Last edited by Mark on Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks mark!

we were planning a trip to turkey from way back when so i was maybe more inclined to take a look at turkeys chart then many others. and, the bonus is the astro chart for turkey is less subject to a number of other charts in use for turkey, a problem that i wish didn't exist for syria where there are a number of charts to choose from.

my simple method boils down to this at this point in time.. i think transits have a lot of merit. i think solar arc directions and minor progs are worth consideration too.. sometimes i look at converse data and i like looking at midpoints and all that, but only after i see something in the transits or direction and prog data..

with turkey one immediately notes the uranus/pluto square on the ascendant/descendant axis.. combine this with the solar arc data - of the ascendant/mars square on the same axis and it is enough to wonder.. i was thinking this back in the early part of the year, or maybe even last year, but then it doesn't take a genius to know that due what is going on in syria, that turkey will be impacted in some way.. the saturn return in turkeys chart was also something that interested me which i think i mentioned already. the minor prog data is interesting and i continue to use this tool when other techniques suggest the possibility of something significant for the chart.

i had spend the past few years trying to understand the direction of syria and have commented on it here and elsewhere.. naturally with a country like turkey right next door that has a solid chart to work with i was curious.

essentially i see the square of uranus/pluto as being central to all this, and yet only a part of it.. i suppose when a few different astro dynamics add up then it can amount to something more serious.. a saturn return always merits attention, but since it is more long term it is tricky to know if any of it will have immediate implications..

hopefully i have given you an idea of what i was looking at! cheers!
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james_m



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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/znijt

trying to put a chart for turkey into the thread just to see if i can do it.. this is as far as i get..
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damon



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 419

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/znijt trying to put a chart for turkey into the thread just to see if i can do it.. this is as far as i get..
Why not have the same approach to other charts?
Take the UK.
The Falkland war was strictly a British war. Saturn was setting in England`s chart.Venus rules 7.
The same Saturn was rising in UK chart,doesnt make so much sense.
After all the UK is nothing but English empire,the celtic fringe becoming part of it before the colonies
But that needs another thread I think
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James_M wrote:

Quote:
trying to put a chart for turkey into the thread just to see if i can do it.. this is as far as i get..


Hi James,

I have inserted the Turkish chart at the beginning of the thread in your first post. I have also inserted a Bi wheel with the Turkey chart in the inner wheel and the chart for the Mars-Saturn Conjunction on the outer wheel. It really demonstrates how the conjunction activated the radix chart for Turkey. Please PM me if you need any tips on posting charts yourself.

regards

Mark
_________________
''Man is troubled not by events, but by the meaning he gives them"

Epictetus
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 1828
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

damon,

the problem with doing mundane astrology is that some countries are plagued with a number of charts to consider with astrologers typically not all agreeing on the best one to use for a country. i think this is the case for england and the usa.

mark -

thanks for doing that.. when i figure it out i am going to post 90 degree wheel charts.. i think i did here once before, but i can't remember..
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