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Non Mystery Chart
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Tom
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:25 pm    Post subject: Non Mystery Chart Reply with quote

Astrodatabank recently published this information (rated AA) and I thought I'd post it for comment.

Bernie Madoff was in the news for arranging the biggest financial scam ever. Estimates of the amount of money he swindled from investors range from $50 to 75 billion (that's billion with a "b"). He is in jail now. He was sentenced to 150 years which makes it a pretty safe bet that he will die in prison.

Pick on anything you like.



By tciii at 2012-03-22

Notice Regulus on the ASC and Venus on Alcyone or the Pleiades.
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Konrad



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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valens states that if the lords of Fortune, Spirit or the 11th from Fortune are located with the Lots of Deceit and Theft, the native makes his living from violence and crime.

Here Madoff has the Lot of Theft in the 10th from Fortune (Aries in the zodiac I am using currently) with both the lords of Fortune and Spirit while the lord of the Lot of Deceit (Mercury) is there with them.

I also note that the out-of-sect Malefic is in the 11th from Fortune while in its detriment.
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Mark
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope Tom doesn’t mind me also displaying the chart with whole sign houses. I find it easier to read that way.



Observations

-Both luminaries in the WS 10th house. Eminence indicator.

-Fixed star Regulus on ASC. Indication of possible eminence.

-The royal sign Leo rises in a day chart with the Sun in the 10th. Indication of eminence.

-10th WS house contains Sun (sect light) , Moon, Venus (Oikodespotes), MC) All 10th place from Lot of Fortune as the derived ASC. Yet another indicator of eminence!

The Moon is exalted, out of sect, under the beams, and applying to the Sun. The Moon in the 10th is Lord 12 with WS houses. This seems to describe Madoff's public life quite well with his exalted social status and eminence underlaid by his hidden activities which brought about his self undoing and downfall.

-Moon Ruler of 12th house and under beams) antiscion ascendant.

-Moon contra-antiscion Jupiter -Ruler of 8th- other peoples money.

-Moon on the fixed star Sheratan. The Northern horn of the Ram. A malefic star of Mars/Saturn nature according to Ptolemy.

-Venus domicile dispositor of Sect light (Sun), Moon, and MC in WS 10th house. Again emphasizing probable public role of this person. It is out sect in a day chart. occidental of the Sun. It is conjunct the South Node. It is on Pleiades of nature of Moon and Mars with an unfortunate reputation.

-MC on the fixed star Capulus in the constellation of Perseus. Capulus, is a star cluster in the sword hand of the Champion. A star with a Mars/Mercury nature according to Ptolemy.

‘’According to Ptolemy, Perseus is like Jupiter and Saturn. It is said to give an intelligent, strong, bold and adventurous nature, but a tendency to lying.’’ Vivian Robson, The Fixed Stars and Constellations p56.

It causes blindness or defective eyesight (all clusters of stars or nebula have this effect). [Robson, p.154.]

''When prominent in a natal chart it is said to denote adventurous individuals, but also those who are less than honest in their dealings with others''. Fixed Stars and Judicial Astrology, George Noonan, 1990, p.14.]

-Venus (L10/MC ruler/Dispositor of Sun) square Jupiter -L 8

-Jupiter -Natural significator of wealth -L5 & 8 is square the Nodes.

-Sun antiscion Lot of Fortune

-Lot of Fortune (Leo) square MC

-Lot of Spirit (Virgo) square Mars

-Lord 2-Mercury in aversion to its domicile.

-Mercury Rx (domicile and exaltation Lord of Lot of Spirit) in aversion to lot and 8th place from lot.

-Saturn in fall in Aries-8 places from Lot of Spirit.

-Jupiter-Lord 8 in aversion to its domicile

Mark
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Last edited by Mark on Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:43 pm; edited 7 times in total
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james_m



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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jupiter square venus on the angle while also square the nodal axis - venus conjunct south node). jupiter rules the 5th house of speculation.. saturn rules the jupiter and is in bad shape celestially.. saturn is at the jupiter/midheaven midpoint, and 2 degrees off the jupiter/venus midpoint.. saturn is square the ascendant/midheaven midpoint as well.. saturn plays a dominant role in the blending of all these energies and it is in bad shape celestially while in the 8th house of others finances.. bingo........... this stuff is so much fun in hindsight.
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Mark
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James_M wrote:

Quote:
bingo........... this stuff is so much fun in hindsight.


Yeah. We all deserve a bit of a break after all those tough mystery charts! Very Happy

Mark
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Tom
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Mark. I don't mind at all: whatever floats your boat.
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James E.



Joined: 15 Jun 2008
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:


Observations

-Lot of Fortune (Leo) square MC



Mark, may I enquire what delineation you come up with using Mc square Lot of Fortune?

Using WSH, I also work with the Fortune chart: that is using Fortune as a first house element which in Madoff's case emphasizes Sun [ruler of Fortune], Moon and Venus in Fortune's 10th and Jupiter in it's 7th; these 4 angular planets relative to Fortune are quite powerful IMO + Mars in the 11th of acquisition from Fortune.

james


Last edited by James E. on Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pankajdubey



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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost all planets except Jupiter are above the horizon, mainly in fixed signs,hugging Algol. The South node is conjunct Algol. Jupiter, lord of gambling(5) and un-earned wealth(8) squares the taurus collection.

Prominent, stubborn, over-optimistic,losing his head.

Soth node is the Ponzi here.

PD
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margherita



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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a really interesting chart with Regulus rising, the elevated Lights and Jupiter at the Descendant!

But there are other configurations not so bright, I believe. Mars is out of sect in the 10th house, and Mercury (in Mars sign) with the Moon not so far from Saturn-Mars sextile.

Cardano,Aphorisms, 6,118 (Bezza's translation) obviously based on Ptolemy's qualities of the soul: "Mars and Mercury together with the Moon and evilly disposed, signify thieves and robbers, and if Saturn beholds they will pay for their crimes. But Saturn's disposition is enough to produce by itself this effect."

In effect Mars, Mercury, Saturn mixture very often produces thieves in traditional astrology,

margherita
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Yukionna



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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there,

I have a question: Venus is with the South Node and from my understanding, SN diminishes a planet's power to act. Which is why some say, it's better to have SN with a debilitated malefic, as it won't cause so much harm then. Venus is also on the 29th degree which was said in another thread to be a weakening position for any planet. So if this is the case, wouldn't that have an effect on the lights, which are both in her domicile? And if so, what would that effect be like? Can she be ruled out as a dispositor based on her weakness? Or how do you go about that?

Yuki
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Tom
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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Venus is on the Pleiades, too. Among other things Robson tells us that it means "loss of fortune."

The combination of Regulus on the ASC and Alcyone or the Pleiades close to the MC might be fairly common at the latitude of New York City. I wonder if any other famous or infamous people have this combination?
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Mark
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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Can she be ruled out as a dispositor based on her weakness? Or how do you go about that?


Lets also not forget Venus here is also in its own domicile and in the 10th house making it very strong in that respect. The fixed stars, nodes or late degrees are mitigations rather than complete exclusions to this. I do note though Venus is out of sect in a day chart above the horizon (mitgated by being in a feminine sign). By solar phase it is free of beams, direct and occidental of the Sun. Like always its a question of sifting through sometimes contradictory indicators.

I dont know much about Madoff before this scandal blew up. However, Madoff is now in his mid 70's. How long has he been dealing in this underhand activity though?

Madoff pled guilty to numerous federal felonies, including securities fraud, wire fraud, mail fraud, money laundering, making false statements, perjury, theft from an employee benefit plan, and making false filings with the SEC. The fraud defrauded thousands of investors of billions of dollars. Madoff said he began the Ponzi scheme in the early 1990s. However, federal investigators believe the fraud began as early as the 1970s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Madoff

Mark
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Last edited by Mark on Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:18 pm; edited 2 times in total
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pankajdubey



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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like there is a lot of money in taurus .

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Keynes,_John_Maynard

He created the IMF.

She heads it.

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/LaGarde,_Christine

And he left it for something else.


http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Strauss-Kahn,_Dominique


PD
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Tom
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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been doing a bit of desktop research on Madoff and as Mark says some think he began the Ponzi scheme as early as the 70s. But others think his business was never legitimate. He began it in 1960.

The planets of interest, to me anyway, are the domicle and exaltation rulers of the MC, Venus and the Moon. Both are elevated and powerful. Exaltation has a sense of exaggeration about it and combined with the Sun, ASC ruler, it isn't too difficult to see Bernie as having quite an opinion of himself. But that's speculative.

I did run a few primary directions and noted that the Moon converse to the body of Venus occurred in 1966 and Venus directed to the Moon perfected in 1968 - both in mundo. Bernie didn't turn into a financial vampire overnight. Like the vampire legend it probably took a few bites over time. Although we can never know for sure, I wonder about these directions*. They combine the sense of exaggeration and power of the MC several years after he founded his company. They occur at ages 28-30, the time of the Saturn return, and of course they involve the MC, honors, status etc.

Regarding the size of his swindle. The media routinely reports it at $65 - 75 billion. That in itself exaggerates the situation. Those numbers are the amount of money actually lost by investors (about $18 billion) plus the fabricated gains of $47-57 billion. The point being that $18 billion over time could have earned its owners interest, but never the amounts Madoff claimed they were making, so the higher numbers of the size of the fraud are heavily exaggerated as well. But if you think you invested $18 billion and you're told it's worth $75 billion and then you find out you have nothing - you think you lost $75 billion. Still $18 billion is nothing to sneeze at.

*I used Naibod Key, a different key would put these directions in a different time period, but as close together as they are using Naibod. I used Naibod because that key produced Moon converse to the MC two weeks before his marriage and Mercury (Lord 2: wealth) to the DSC (setting) one week before his arrest).
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margherita



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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom wrote:
Venus is on the Pleiades, too. Among other things Robson tells us that it means "loss of fortune."

The combination of Regulus on the ASC and Alcyone or the Pleiades close to the MC might be fairly common at the latitude of New York City. I wonder if any other famous or infamous people have this combination?


I have a chart too, but it is a little different.

The native is the left-wing leader of Rifondazione Comunista Fausto Bertinotti, ex trade unionist who served as President of the Italian Chamber of Deputies between 2006-2008. He changed the party he led from marxism to no global and antagonist movement.

He was famous here in Italy for his "aristocratic" manners, the French R and polite manners almost like an English Lord, and in the same time for his radical opinions. With him his party reached around 10% of national votes, and it was one of the most important Italian parties.

As Madoff he has humble origins, and he has Regulus on the Ascendant and Venus in Taurus at MC.
Unfortunately for him as Madoff he has Mars against sect at MC.
When in 2008 Berlusconi won the elections, his party - swallowed by internal fights disappeared from Parliament, and Bertinotti now is a quiet grandfather.

Differently from Madoff there is no mutual reception between Mars and Mercury and Saturn is not involved in the configuration. There is the fall (I would say Mars at MC against sect) but no scandal and thefts.


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