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Fascinated with Astrology
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golmagi



Joined: 07 Mar 2012
Posts: 15

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:00 pm    Post subject: Fascinated with Astrology Reply with quote

Hi , name is Rich and I'm a student from Brighton. I've always been really interested in how exactly astrology works. I found myself on your website looking for answers. It's really hard to find unbiased material on the subject in the web. Doing research online can also prove to be difficult. Astrology isn't exactly accepted among university students. That's why I came here Smile I will lurk a bit and try to form a good opinion on astrology by myself Smile
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jill elinore



Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Posts: 48
Location: Worthing, West Sussex

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Rich, prepare to be confused Smile

Am just down the road from you, by the way, in Worthing.

Jill
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jill elinore



Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Posts: 48
Location: Worthing, West Sussex

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may notice soon enough that no two astrologers really think exactly alike: we like to indulge ourselves with how we pick and choose our particular brand of astrology, taking a little here and a little from there. My reasoning is to follow that which appeals and sounds familiar or even sometimes sensible and or logical ... to instinctively graduate to that in a totally subjective way and ultimately become a unique hybrid Smile
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Raymond Scott



Joined: 08 Mar 2012
Posts: 20

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly.

There is a lot of diversity in Astrology.
Unfortunately there is a lot of discord.


Steven Forrest even mentioned the Tower of Babel issue in Astrology.
Like him, I believe that there is on One True Astrology.

from 45 minutes into the video, he talks about that issue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWN8kk1uVhM


I am very skeptical of zodiac signs and house systems.
A lot of astrologers disagree on which zodiac to use. Tropical zodiac astrologers will argue their case for why the tropical zodiac is valid and sidereal zodiac isn't. Sidereal zodiac astrologers will argue their case for why the sidereal zodiac is valid and and tropical zodiac isn't. It's the same thing with the house systems. It's the same thing with what aspects to use. It's the same thing with what objects to use in Astrology. Some astrologers will talk badly about other astrologers using minor planets like they are ignorant people. Some of those minor planet using astrologers actually contributed to the naming of some solar system objects like Nessus. They are actually an example of a bridge between Astrological community and Astronomical community. The astronomer Percy Seymour is example of a bridge between Astrological community and Astronomical community.


I focus only on Planetary Geometry, and so the way that I do Astrology is.
It is based on Cosmobiology,Uranian Astrology,and Magi Astrology which are all highly geometrical astrological systems.


to each, his/her own - That's my approach to Astrology.
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jill elinore



Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Posts: 48
Location: Worthing, West Sussex

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also think there is one true astrology and that a lot that is written and proposed is our feeble-minded attempts at getting there Smile Working purely with geometry removes so much of the conjecture and Uranian astrology is something Id like to look into more.

Thank you for the link, I shall be sure to watch it.
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Raymond Scott



Joined: 08 Mar 2012
Posts: 20

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raymond Scott wrote:
Exactly.

There is a lot of diversity in Astrology.
Unfortunately there is a lot of discord.


Steven Forrest even mentioned the Tower of Babel issue in Astrology.
Like him, I do not believe that there is on One True Astrology.

from 45 minutes into the video, he talks about that issue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWN8kk1uVhM


I am very skeptical of zodiac signs and house systems.
A lot of astrologers disagree on which zodiac to use. Tropical zodiac astrologers will argue their case for why the tropical zodiac is valid and sidereal zodiac isn't. Sidereal zodiac astrologers will argue their case for why the sidereal zodiac is valid and and tropical zodiac isn't. It's the same thing with the house systems. It's the same thing with what aspects to use. It's the same thing with what objects to use in Astrology. Some astrologers will talk badly about other astrologers using minor planets like they are ignorant people. Some of those minor planet using astrologers actually contributed to the naming of some solar system objects like Nessus. They are actually an example of a bridge between Astrological community and Astronomical community. The astronomer Percy Seymour is example of a bridge between Astrological community and Astronomical community.


I focus only on Planetary Geometry, and so the way that I do Astrology is.
It is based on Cosmobiology,Uranian Astrology,and Magi Astrology which are all highly geometrical astrological systems.


to each, his/her own - That's my approach to Astrology.
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Raymond Scott



Joined: 08 Mar 2012
Posts: 20

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jill elinore wrote:
I also think there is one true astrology and that a lot that is written and proposed is our feeble-minded attempts at getting there Smile Working purely with geometry removes so much of the conjecture and Uranian astrology is something Id like to look into more.

Thank you for the link, I shall be sure to watch it.



Jill........it was a mistake
I was being an idiot and left words out which I tend to do in my posts.
I actually have to go back and edit my posts because I leave words out (especially not for some reason) and type in the wrong word. I am a perfectionist in that way. Stuff like that makes me self conscious. I really need to pay more attention to my typing. Unfortunately, people can be judged by what they type. I can be like GWB with my speech. If I don't think my words carefully, I will say the wrong thing and feel stupid. That's why I tend to think my words carefully before I speak or write unless I am stressed and overwhelmed.


In my humble opinion,
There is no One True Astrology.
Steven Forrest even pointed that out and talked about diversity in astrological community that is not a bad thing.


I apologize for my mistake in words and to Steven Forrest.
I don't want to put him in a negative light because of my misuse of words.

I think that he's a wonderful astrologer in his open-mindedness.
I greatly respect and admire him.


peace
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jill elinore



Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Posts: 48
Location: Worthing, West Sussex

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for clarifying that, no problem.

I thought I had read you wrong but I stand by what I said which is that for me, there is some kind of perfect astrology that may encompass many of the thoughts of the varying astrologers/types of astrology to date. I just dont think we have found it yet but if/when we do, lets hope everyone agrees on it Smile
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Paul
Moderator


Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Posts: 1144

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Fascinated with Astrology Reply with quote

golmagi wrote:
Hi , name is Rich and I'm a student from Brighton. I've always been really interested in how exactly astrology works. I found myself on your website looking for answers. It's really hard to find unbiased material on the subject in the web. Doing research online can also prove to be difficult. Astrology isn't exactly accepted among university students. That's why I came here Smile I will lurk a bit and try to form a good opinion on astrology by myself Smile


Hi Rich

One thing that's worth pointing out straight away is that nobody knows how astrology works. Nobody.

It's worth keeping this in mind. You will read many theories, some very esoteric, some very scientific sounding, but in truth nobody knows. Lots of astrologers like to have pet theories, but there is no scientifically credible proof one way or another.

The more interesting question might be first of all "Does astrology work" and if you answer yes to that question, the next more practical question is "How can I use it?"

I think this site might help you answer the latter two questions, but as for the first, as nobody really knows how astrology works, you will only ever get theories some of which will appeal to you and some of which won't.

A great place to start if you want to learn astrology would be some of the articles here on this site. I'm going to just put it out there that in some ways this forum is more 'advanced', there are not many newbies to astrology here, most of the people who post here are already pretty fluent in astrology.

Click on the 'articles' tab under the SkyScript.co.uk logo and you'll find plenty to get started with.
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3915
Location: England

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jill wrote:
there is some kind of perfect astrology that may encompass many of the thoughts of the varying astrologers/types of astrology to date. I just dont think we have found it yet but if/when we do, lets hope everyone agrees on it
I can't see that ever happening whilever individuals retain their own sense of reasoning. The perfect astrological scheme is filled with metaphor and analogy; everyone of us creates it in our own mind. Once I moved beyond the basics, most of my astrological instruction came from reading traditional works, so I've come to adopt their vision of the cosmos in reality. It makes perfect sense to me as it is, though I know it's poetic to talk about planets coming together, moving backwards, or stating up new life-cycles, etc.
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jill elinore



Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Posts: 48
Location: Worthing, West Sussex

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just see it as though we are trying to explain the unknown based on myth; maybe those myths have an element of truth in them or none or a lot but I cant manage to engage myself in theories, however poetic, based on assumption based on assumption based on an, um, assumption. Whilst frustrating for me, I have to move myself from the traditional and modern explanations; its akin to religion to me, explaining the meaning of life via ignorance or guesswork or divine inspiration.

Fundamentally, do we even have a soul? That needs to be established before philosophers decide what the soul is or what it should do! Traditional astrology is like a religion in the way it instructs and modern astrology is like a new-age religion. I cant deal with either.

Traditional astrology for me has so many ifs and ands and there is always something contrary to say to make rules fit (or unfit). Too much mitigation is not how I see the creator would have created the universe. I see traditional astrology as devising ways to cover its own bottom (excuse my French), to cover every eventuality, mainly to keep the king or eminent one happy Smile I also think theres a bit of a conspiracy going on whereby making it all so ridiculously contradicting to cover up the real wisdom.

Im a great fan of John Frawley for doing away with a lot of the fluff though.
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golmagi



Joined: 07 Mar 2012
Posts: 15

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Fascinated with Astrology Reply with quote

Paul wrote:
golmagi wrote:
Hi , name is Rich and I'm a student from Brighton. I've always been really interested in how exactly astrology works. I found myself on your website looking for answers. It's really hard to find unbiased material on the subject in the web. Doing research online can also prove to be difficult. Astrology isn't exactly accepted among university students. That's why I came here Smile I will lurk a bit and try to form a good opinion on astrology by myself Smile


Hi Rich

One thing that's worth pointing out straight away is that nobody knows how astrology works. Nobody.



That's a really interesting point. I never thought about it this way. I guess having been brought up in the 'scientific method' paradigm, it was just easier to wonder about how it works first. But I completely agree, there are many things in this world that are simply beyond our comprehension. The question is whether we can learn to take advantage despite we don't really understand it:)

Thanks for the warm welcome guys! All your comments really gave me a lot to think Smile


Last edited by golmagi on Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Paul
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Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Posts: 1144

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jill elinore wrote:
Traditional astrology is like a religion in the way it instructs and modern astrology is like a new-age religion. I cant deal with either.


I don't think traditional astrology is like a religion. It's more like a well honed tool. A bit of a swiss army knife. It's practical and deals with practical issues for the most part.
In what way do you see it as being like a religion?

Quote:

Traditional astrology for me has so many ifs and ands and there is always something contrary to say to make rules fit (or unfit). Too much mitigation is not how I see the creator would have created the universe. I see traditional astrology as devising ways to cover its own bottom (excuse my French), to cover every eventuality, mainly to keep the king or eminent one happy Smile


Obviously there were cases where the king/emperor would (and did) execute you for being wrong.
But think of how many court astrologers there were. Now think of how many were executed - surely that there was so few might indicate that some of their methods worked.
In reality traditional astrology does not have many conditional statements, rather they have some pretty basic simple ones and then because a chart is more complex than the sum of its parts, the end result can often be some to-ing and fro-ing. Psychological/modern astrology is the same and in places even more so. When modern astrology gets it wrong the tendancy can often be to make the chart more complex - add in another TNO, suddenly notice the mid point that makes it all fit, decide to extend your orbs etc. Nothing wrong with that. But when traditional astrologers tend to get it wrong, I notice that they simplify rather than complicate, they subtract, rather than add.
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Paul
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Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Posts: 1144

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Fascinated with Astrology Reply with quote

golmagi wrote:

That's a really interesting point. I never thought about it this way. I guess having been brought up in the 'scientific method' paradigm, it was just to wonder about how it works first. But I completely agree, there are many things in this world that are simply beyond our comprehension. The question is whether we can learn to take advantage despite we don't really understand it:)

Thanks for the warm welcome guys! All your comments really gave me a lot to think Smile


I think we all are. I think part of what makes us drawn to astrology is a fundamental curiosity about how the world works and how people work and what makes them tick. Many engineer type mentalities or psychology type mentalities tend to be drawn to astrology for exactly that reason.
We'd all love to know of course, we'd all love to have 'the answer' but just as science doesn't yet have its theory of everything, neither do astrologers. A good example of how Abraham Ortelius proposed continental drift and was a laughing stock because he could not propose any scientifically sound theory of how or why it operated. It took 400 years for him to be vindicated and a theory found.
Science can be like that, despite observing the effect, unless a theory can explain it, the tendency can be to dismiss it.

Better that we just learn to use it and use it well. I liken it to microwaves. I don't truly know the exact details of how electromagnetic wave propogation works, but I sure as hell know how to use a microwave to heat up my dinner.
Similarly I don't really know how astrology works (maybe, like with continental drift, it will be explained in the future) but I do know how to use it and I'm learning more all the time to help use it with more efficacy.
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jill elinore



Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Posts: 48
Location: Worthing, West Sussex

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul, a lot of astrologers were executed. Unfortunately, I dont have the stats. But I have watched I Claudius!

When I refer to religion, I mean the worldview that the themes of both astrology of today and antiquity are based on. Too many assumptions about our journey, what we are here for, what we are meant to achieve, too many arbitrary esoteric notions. Too many rules for life basically. Astrologers also have this horrible way of thinking that they have the key to the truth and I dont like it! This is separate to the way I feel about all the ifs and buts and mitigating circumstances. I see the often non-sensical rules to completely distract and it all looks too man-made for my liking.
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