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My Switching To Sidereal Zodiac and only Planetary Geometry
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Raymond Scott



Joined: 08 Mar 2012
Posts: 20

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:49 am    Post subject: My Switching To Sidereal Zodiac and only Planetary Geometry Reply with quote

I have decided to convert from being a Tropical Zodiac user to a Sidereal Zodiac user. I didn't come to this decision lightly. I have had ongoing questions about the tropical zodiac for years, noticing even inconsistencies with some tropical zodiac astrologers using precession corrected transits,return charts. There were issues about applying Northern Hemisphere season-based zodiac for people born in the Southern Hemisphere. I notice inconsistencies about planets ruling signs and people diverging from what Ptolemy did. When I looked more into Sidereal Astrology, I noticed the older we get, the more difference there is between Sidereal Zodiac transits,return charts and Tropical Zodiac transits,return charts. Reading Cyril Fagan's books have opened my eyes. I learned that the original zodiac was Sidereal and not Tropical. The Babylonians and Egyptians used the Sidereal Zodiac. The Greeks used the Tropical Zodiac. The Greeks seemed to mess up a lot of things that the Babylonians and Egyptians did. The Astrology that the Babylonians and Egyptians did were lunar based. The Egyptians came up with their concept of constellations based on what they saw in the night sky. The constellations were based on acronychal rising. The Sun was relating to those rising opposite them, and not with invisible stars that were in conjunction with them. If Taurus was acronychal rising, then Sun was in Scorpio. Egyptian and Babylonian day started at sunset. Then the Greeks mistook acronychal risings for Solar conjunctions. The Babylonians and Egyptians used 12 equal sign zodiac. The 13 zodiac signs including Ophiuchus started with the Greeks. I am going to be a Sidereal Zodiac user for now on. The constellations don't get their meanings from the element,mode,and planetary ruler. All that was originated by the Greeks.



I am finding a renewed interest in the methods of Uranian Astrology and Magi Astrology. I have a great interest in planetary pictures that including midpoints aspecting midpoints. I want to focus on only Planetary Geometry in my Astrology. I noticed that astrologers that focus on only planetary geometry use much smaller orbs for aspects. I am going to do the same - 3 degrees like the Magi Astrologers. I believe that Astrology works because of Planetary Geometry and not because of zodiac signs and houses.

I would use the Sidereal Zodiac, but I would only use it to measure aspects. I would also use both Geocentric and Heliocentric Charts.

I would diverge from Magi Astrologers.
I believe that the Semisquare and Sesquiquadrate are important aspects,and so I I would use the semisquare and sesquiquadrate.


orbs
For both Geocentric and Heliocentric
using Sidereal Zodiac

3'00 orb for conjunction,opposition,trine,square,sextile
1'30 orb for semisextile, quincunx, semisquare, sesquiquadrate,quintile,biquintile
1'00 orb for 7th,9th,10th,11th harmonics

planetary picture with a single factor aspecting a midpoint
1'00 for conjunction,opposition
0'30 for square
0'15 for semisquare,sesquiquadrate

planetary picture with midpoint conjunct,oppose a midpoint
0'30



Ever since I learned about the Draconic Zodiac originated from the Babylonians in the book, ZODIACS OLD AND NEW by Cyril Fagan and Donald A. Bradley, I have become a lot more interested in the Draconic Zodiac.


I definitely believe in looking at Draconic transits to Draconic natal chart as well as well as the comparison between 2 Draconic charts for synastry which is pretty much a transit chart any way.



I don't believe in mixing it with other zodiac charts including especially the tropical zodiac chart which Babylonians didn't use. They were using Sidereal Charts. The Draconic Zodiac was obviously based on Sidereal positions.

I am definitely including Draconic Zodiac as part of my astrological methods along with the Sidereal Zodiac. I don't use zodiacs signs for personality analysis though. I only zodiacs as frame of reference to measure aspects. I am strictly geometrical in the way that I do Astrology.
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Raymond Scott



Joined: 08 Mar 2012
Posts: 20

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Magi Society on their focusing on only planetary geometry


I can explain my reasoning about the changes that I made.


I noticed that Magi Society uses the 7th harmonic aspects ,and they refer to them as Zodiac7. Well.....I don't see how Zodiac11 can't work. Heck..I am prominent in Zodiac11 with Mercury,Saturn,Uranus,Sedna in 11th Harmonic Isosceles Trapezoid with corresponding planetary pictures of Mercury oppose Saturn/Sedna - '16, Sedna oppose Mercury/Uranus - '17, and Mercury/Sedna oppose Saturn/Uranus - '01. The configurations clearly give insight into my mental activity,thinking,communications.

I don't know why Magi Society don't think 8th harmonic aspects, the semisquare and sesquiquadrate aren't important.
I definitely believe that they are. That is from my studies in cosmobiology and uranian astrology.

I don't agree with their use of trine,sextile with midpoints. I definitely use the semisquare,sesquiquadrate with midpoints.

I use much smaller orbs with the midpoint crossing and magi quads. I don't want to get overloaded with factors.
I consider the heliocentric chart too.

I am using Sidereal Zodiac,, and that's different from what Magi Society uses.

Cosmobiologists only use conjunction,opposition,square,semisquare,and sesquiquadrate when focusing on events.
They view the trine and sextile as not important for events and them as having to do with like conditions or state.

Declinations is a tropical coordinate, and so as a Sidereal Astrologer, I can't use them. That is the same with Right Ascension. I believe the combination of Geocentric Chart and Heliocentric Chart can give really good information.



Cosmobiologists have a different take on aspects. They don't view challenging aspects as bad. They just consider the planets involved. They don't seem to like saturn and neptune much.
It is the same with uranian astrologers. Cosmobiologists stem from uranian astrologers.
That's why I consider the way that I am doing Astrology as being influenced by Magi Astrology,Uranian Astrology,and Cosmobiology.
A lot of the Magi Astrology stuff is similar to Uranian Astrology like the magi quads which are planetary pictures used in Uranian Astrology.

I used to think that they are a bit overkill. I thought they would be too much detail to explain stuff to make something work, but I realized that planetary pictures are relevant, They can easily account for wide orb aspects and even aspects more than 3 degrees. It is all about symmetry and geometry

When I finally understood that, I can see why Magi Astrologers didn't use more than 3 degree orb and why uranian astrologers don't even use the regular aspects but just look at planetary pictures.

Of course, my now strong skepticism of zodiac signs and houses have greatly factored into looking at the geometry and symmetry in a new light.

Transiting uranus is currently sesquiquadrate my mercury. I have really been changing my perceptions,views,thinking about stuff n Astrology. I have been very mentally restless too, and that's connected to looking into different astrological things.
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Raymond Scott



Joined: 08 Mar 2012
Posts: 20

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the following transits when I changed my views about Astrology, Started Looking Into Sidereal Zodiac, Converted to Sidereal Zodiac

Sidereal Transits:
Tr Jupiter oppose Na Sun-Ixion
Tr Saturn trine Na Mars
Tr Uranus semisextile Na Sedna
Tr Neptune square Na Neptune
Tr Neptune quincunx Na Pluto
Tr Neptune sextile Na Sedna
Tr Neptune sesquiadrate Na Uranus
Tr Pluto square Na Chiron
Tr Chiron trine Na Sun-Ixion
Tr Chiron square Na Saturn
Tr Sedna oppose Na Venus
Tr Eris quincunx Na Venus


Draconic Transits:
Tr Jupiter trine Na Sun-Ixion
Tr Jupiter sextile Na Saturn
Tr Saturn sesquiquadrate Na Ceres
Tr Uranus conjunct Na Saturn
Tr Uranus conjunct Na Varuna
Tr Uranus square Na Moon
Tr Neptune conjunct Na Sedna
Tr Neptune quincunx Na Pluto
Tr Chiron oppose Na Sun-Ixion
Tr Chiron semisextile Na Saturn
Tr Sedna trine Na Venus
Tr Eris quincunx Na Venus
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Atlantean



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 382

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting opinions...

I don't know if you noticed, but in your first two posts in this thread, you referred to yourself at least 50 times.

Re: "I believe that Astrology works because of Planetary Geometry and not because of zodiac signs and houses."

In my event list (for my life), I have six important deaths. For those six deaths, considering primary directions and secondary progressions, there are eighteen aspects to the 8th House cusp within just scant minutes of arc.

Though I can certainly understand someone wanting to do their own thing, and I support exactly that, I don't agree that relating what works in Astrology as being separate from zodiac signs and houses is proper, let alone correct.

Peace

James
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Raymond Scott



Joined: 08 Mar 2012
Posts: 20

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Atlantean"]Very interesting opinions...

I don't know if you noticed, but in your first two posts in this thread, you referred to yourself at least 50 times.


I don't see what's the problem with my post.

I don't think that I refer to myself at least 50 times.

That's seems like a bit of an exaggeration to cut me down.

If I did, I was just expressing my views,beliefs,opinions,and views. I wasn't referring to anybody else. I don't speak for people. I don't think that I am some mouthpiece for others because I believe that they can speak for themselves just like I can speak for myself.

I only just expressed my views. There is no crime in that.


I am sorry that I am not great with expressing myself.

Maybe you or some other people can teach me how to communicate better.

I am a neurodivergent with Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,ADHD with a history of special education including being misplaced with intellectually handicapped children until I was found out to have above average intelligence.

If it wasn't for special education therapies including auditory therapy, speech therapy, phonics training, and motor skills therapy, I'd still be autistic-like. Now I am Aspergers-like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSvkhGm0qUU




peace

Raymond
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Atlantean



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 382

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Raymond,

Don't read too much into my comment, Raymond. It was not meant to put you down, it was merely a comment to make sure you were aware of this "stylistic" element of your post. This is an astrology forum, not an English class, so I don't want to go on and on about it. Read the two example paragraphs below and I think you will see what I mean and we can drop it. Wink

Ex. 1

I went to the park. There was a dog there playing. Some kids were throwing Frisbees and it was great fun watching the dog jump and catch the Frisbees. An old friend happened to be in that very park and we got together and had a very nice chat about life and the coincidence of us both being there at the same time. Being late for an appointment, we didn't get to talk as much as we would have liked. We exchanged contact information and assured each other that we wouldn't be strangers, as in the past. All in all, it was a great day.

Ex. 2

I went to the park. I saw a dog there playing. I saw some kids throwing Frisbees. I had great fun watching them. I saw the dog jump and catch the Frisbee. I then saw an old friend. I approached the friend and I began talking with my friend. I enjoyed our chat. I talked about the coincidence of us both being there at the same time. I was late for an appointment. I didn't get to talk as much as I would have liked. I gave him my contact information and he game me his. I assured him that I wouldn't be a stranger. I asked him to do the same. I wanted things in the future to not be like they were in the past. I thought I had a great day.

If you'll reread your post, you'll clearly see it is exactly in the style of Example 2. You can write any way you'd like, I was just hinting that (basically) every sentence having at least one "I" in it, becomes very quickly tedious to read. In that style, you are the subject of basically every sentence.

I brought it up because I was somehow under the impression that you might not be aware of it. (which is why I started with "I don't know if you noticed, but...")

Re: "I only just expressed my views. There is no crime in that."

Not at all, it is very much encouraged. The more divergent opinions that we are exposed to, the better it is (potentially) for all of us.

Re: "Maybe you or some other people can teach me how to communicate better."

Thank you for saying that. I would not have elaborated further were it not for this request.

Re: Your history/circumstance

Congratulations on what must have been a lot of work on your part. It is often through adversity that we (ultimately) gain the most.

I don't agree with what you said, as I can't imagine an astrology without sign and house references... how would one even begin an horary?.... but my comments were not in relation to what you said, merely how you said it.

I hope you will take my comments in the spirit in which they were intended, ie. as constructive.

Peace

James
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Raymond Scott



Joined: 08 Mar 2012
Posts: 20

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I typed the following:

"I am sorry that I am not great with expressing myself.

Maybe you or some other people can teach me how to communicate better. "


It was actually a sarcastic response to you're pointing out stuff about my language and grammar stuff.



I don't come here to get my language,grammar picked apart.

I didn't come here for an English,grammar lesson. I can't believe that you actually posted that stuff like I am ignorant idiot.


All you had to do was express your views about the astrological content

It was unnecessary to post your views about my communications,language,grammar.


When I began sentences with I , it's mainly talking about Astrology from my perception. It's only my perception.

I try to not make absolute statements which can be torn apart by others. In this day and age on the internet, it's so easy for simple statements to get torn apart by others. That's why I often use "I believe", "I think", "I have an opinion", or "It's my view" or "It's my belief"

I am well aware that there is a lot of relativity when it comes to views in Astrology, and so my views are relative too. They can easily be questioned just like I believe that others people can be easily questioned. Just because I have a view about something doesn't mean that another person has the same view as me. I am well aware of that, and it doesn't need to be pointed out to me.

The problem that I have with the astrological community is that I have the view that they are being unfairly criticized by the scientific community but they tend to do the same thing to each other that they accuse the scientific community. Even Steven Forrest pointed out the Tower of Babel problem going in the astrological community. I had a lot of issues with astrologers were not tolerant of my views, talked to me like I was stupid and ignorant, and then had the nerve to accuse me of forcing my views down other people's throats and not listening to others try to help me because I have my own astrological views and disagreed with people giving me advice about doing Astrology the mainstream way. It's the same attitudes that many people in organized religions have. Philip Sedgwick told me that it makes sense that Jupiter is found prominent in Astrologers via Gauquelin sector for astrologers are very entrenched in their views. I noticed this a lot in the astrological community.


I don't do horary astrology. I was never interested even though I got a book on it. I have been skeptical of zodiac signs and houses on and off.
There are astrological systems that are not really focused on zodiac signs and houses like Cosmobiology and Uranian Astrology as well as Magi Astrology. They focus mainly on

IMHO I don't think th

I don't believe that Mainstream Astrology can really give a good picture.

For example, I posted about Moon in Pisces in a forum, and a woman told me that she can relate to it but she doesn't have Moon in Pisces. I checked her chart. She didn't have Moon in Pisces nor did she have any configurations,aspects in her chart to suggest an affinity for Moon in Pisces. On a hunch that she had Moon aspect Neptune midpoints, I checked her midpoints, and sure enough...she has Moon aspecting Sun/Neptune,Mercury/Neptune,and Mars/Neptune midpoints.

I am a strong believer in the use of the transneptunian dwarf planets too. IMHO they are the keys to 21st Century Astrology. I am very strong in transneptunian dwarf planet energy overall. Looking at me from a 20th Century Astrological view wouldn't give a complete picture about who and what I am.

I don't think Mainstream Astrology can give insight into my neurodivergent conditions. I am very interested in astrological indicators of neurodivergence. I believe that the same astrological indicators for neurodivergence as the same or similar to astrological indicators for serious psychiatric disorders because of the strong overlap between them. I have a believe that they may be connected to the transneptunian dwarf planets because of the ultrasensitivity that neurodivergents like me tend to have. A lot of astrologers will look at planetary afflictions like neurodivergent conditions are disorders. Who are they to consider us as disordered? The Psychiatry doesn't recognize the metaphysical. They would view anybody with metaphysical experiences as being psychotic or schizophrenic. I don't really think astrologers are in the position to view other people as disordered when they are in highly questionable profession from the view of scientific and psychiatric communities.


Please.....Next time I post, I'd appreciate that you don't bring my grammar,language,and communication irregularities into it.


I don't do any of that stuff to people. I don't pick apart people's words like you and some others do.

Please give me the same consideration.

Lets just stick to the Astrology.
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jill elinore



Joined: 22 Aug 2010
Posts: 48
Location: Worthing, West Sussex

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Raymond, Im not sure if you are the same Raymond that used to post on Horoscopic Astrology and UA back a few years but, anyway, you have interesting ideas and write extremely well especially considering your challenges - I have a son with similar issues.

Jill
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 573

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Raymond,

I'm not following a lot of what you have said since I don't use the techniques myself but I am wondering what difference the zodiac you use makes if you don't use signs or houses?
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Atlantean



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 382

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Raymond,

Sorry that you feel that way.

Re: "All you had to do was express your views about the astrological content"

I had no problems whatsoever with what you said. It was the style of writing that made me not want to read it. That was the whole thrust of my comment. I am truly sorry that you were offended or that you felt demeaned by what was said. That most certainly was not my intention.

Peace

James
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Raymond Scott



Joined: 08 Mar 2012
Posts: 20

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jill elinore wrote:
Hi Raymond, Im not sure if you are the same Raymond that used to post on Horoscopic Astrology and UA back a few years but, anyway, you have interesting ideas and write extremely well especially considering your challenges - I have a son with similar issues.

Jill



Jill,

I am the same person.

Like many neurodivergents, I use compensatory strategies. Special education therapies including auditory therapy, speech therapy, phonics training, and motor skills therapy helped make that happen. Of course, I owe that all to great special education teachers/therapists.

My very strong Saturn influence (I have numerous Saturn aspects) fit with not only my compensation strategies and habits that I have developed, but also being hard on myself, and insecurity in connection to restrictions,limitations, late bloomer/development, and trying to fit in and be normal even though that was never me any way.

No matter what perspective my chart is looked at, it's obvious that I am not meant to go with the status quo at all. My consultation with Philip Sedgwick, he and I agreed on that. That is why I have strong transneptunian dwarf planet/candidate energy besides Pluto from every perspective.

My primary mode of thinking is pictorial,visual. I have Mercury conjunct Sun/Neptune midpoint that can indicate that, and mainstream astrologers would say that it's my Neptune in 3rd. Some astrologers that use declinations would say that it's my Mercury parallel Neptune. Unlike most children, I didn't learn language from exposure. Word,verbal thinking didn't come naturally to me like it does with most children. I had to be taught to think that way. My brain had to be re-wired in order for me to no longer scramble and reverse words,language when I was listening to people speak which led to speech reversals,unintelligible,disorganized speech. That is what auditory therapy did for me. I had to get speech therapy and phonics training so I could be able to speak and read. Phonics training doesn't work if there is no phonemic awareness which I greatly lacked before I had the auditory therapy and speech therapy. My motor skills therapy helped me develop adequate use of my hands. It was actually therapy to work with my fine motor skills. Because I didn't naturally grasp the concept of language and words, I had problems with social skills. Those things had to be taught to me. Before special education therapies, I resembled somebody with autism. After special education therapies, I resemble somebody with Aspergers Syndrome. I don't have their strengths of natural organization, detail-orientation and rote memorization abilities that people on the Autistic Spectrum tend to have.
I don't have their weaknesses of problems understanding emotional/social cues (tone of voice,gestures,facial expressions). My intense and ultrasensitive reactions to environment,surroundings is not as intense and ultrasensitive as their reactions and how I was in early childhood. From what my mother told me, my father was a different story. She and I now believe that he was on the Autistic Spectrum and didn't just have Dyslexic,Dyspraxic,ADHD traits. My mother has them to an extent, but not as extreme as my father's nor mine.

I have difficulty learning in a classroom because I am mainly a visual spatial learner, and so I have problems learning in an auditory sequential learning environment. Lecture teaching doesn't work on me at all. I have to see and do to learn something.

It takes me awhile for me to learn something. When I do learn it, it becomes second nature. That is because I have poor short term memory and good long term memory. The latter helps me compensate for the former. I also have problems with remembering a sequence. Problems with processing sequential information affects not only my oral and written receptive-expressive language processing but also my motor skills. I don't forget easily only what I read and listen to. I forget easily motor movement actions which affects coordination, and so it can be hard for me to repeat the actions of what others are doing. I have frustrated others because of that issue. It can make training me a pain in the ass and get people to think that I am stupid,slow,or not trying. While I am paying attention a lot to the point and being very anxious when I am not getting it quickly as I should.

A neuro-psychologist helped me understand that my short term memory problems are due to to problems with organizing and encoding information. I also believe that it's also connected to the sequential processing problems that I have.

Another issue that factors into my learning problems is that I need to be interested in something for me to learn it. If I am not interested, I will get bored and not pay attention to the subject material. This just compounds the problems that is connected to being mainly a visual spatial learner,having problems with short memory, and problems with sequential processing.

Another is that I get information overload easily. When I read, too much word information comes to my eyes for my brain to process. When I listen, too much word information comes to my ears for my brain to process. The neuro-psychologist told me that I have problems with strings of words whether it's oral or written. This could also be in connection to sequential processing problems. Word is a sequence of letters in order. Sentence is a sequence of words in order. Paragraph is a sequence of sentences in order. It can be a sensory processing issue.

Another factor in reading problems is problems with visual tracking with issues with saccadic,pursuit movements. I can loose my place easily. I compensate by using a finger (either physical or mental or both). This also might be connected to having too much word information to eyes for my brain to process. However, it does effect my coordination when it comes to throwing and catching. I especially have difficulty with tracking rapid moving objects. I think that it could also being overly sensitive to my environment. I also compensate by making my font much bigger when I read and type. I enlarge my screen so I read better. When I type internet posts, I will type in large font in a word document and then paste on internet forums. This is something that I have to do when I make comments on facebook because I will accidentally enter stuff before I am finished. Facebook needs the comment button for clumsy fingered people like myself. I am having problems with Windows 7 because of the same issue. I am always accidentally opening up windows and deleting stuff. I am glad that there is an Undo function, but I tend to lose information when I am typing on facebook.


I feel that my Dyspraxic obsessiveness and ADHD hyperfocus helped me to learn what I am interested in even though I would have the Dyslexic problems of remembering what I read so I would read it repeatedly until it was in my long term memory. The trick for me is to deeply immerse myself in the material,and that's where Dyspraxia and ADHD helps me. I also think mainly in pictures,always visualizing things in my mind's eye,and that is typical of people with Dyslexia. Turning what I read into images in my mind's eye helps me to read and listen. I can get totally immersed in fiction books, especially mythology. I was taught to associate words with pictures in special education class. Special education/therapy gave me the tools to use my strengths to compensate for my weaknesses



I explained my strengths and weaknesses in my Developmental Neurodiversity Association video too.


I also have problems with speech.....this what got me misdiagnosed by psychiatrists as having bipolar disorder with schizoaffective disorder without psychological testing being done. This was before I understood neurodivergent conditions.


I actually have the speech issues that Dr. Harold N. Levinson's talks about in his book. It is what led to a misdiagnosis of bipolar with schizoaffective disorder in adulthood by psychiatrists.
It seems to be reflected by my Mercury conjunct Sun/Neptune midpoint. Some astrologers would say Neptune in 3rd house. Some astrologers would say Mercury parallel Neptune.

page 47 from A SOLUTION TO THE RIDDLE OF DYSLEXIA(The DISCOVERY OF
CEREBELLAR-VESTIBULAR SYNDROMES by Harold N. Levinson, MD

"Occasionally, dyslexics manifested a "loose" and telescopic quality to their associative speech or thinking styles, and as a result tended to be rapid,wordy, and rambling in their spontaneous descriptions. This interesting speech pattern appeared independent of anxiety factors, and tended to resemble a schizophrenic's "loose associations" and tangential thinking. However, these dyslexic children were not psychotic, and lacked autistic preoccupation and projective thinking mechanisms. They merely seemed to forget momentarily the direction of their thought sequences and/or the thoughts and words themselves.

Occasionally, the temporal spacing between words and sentences was shorter than normal and even dysmetric.

Later studies noted nonpsychotic "absentminded" adult dyslexics to manifest similar loose,wordy, and rambling speech patterns ----clearly demonstrating the need to qualitatively and diagnostically distinguish dyslexic speech patterns from schizophrenic patterns (Kasaninin, 1964). Upon analysis, this loose, absent-minded dyslexic thinking style prone to slips was found to be due to the very same underlying memory, directional, and temporal spatial dyscoordination mechanisms characterizing dyslexic reading, writing, and spelling.

Not infrequently these so-called absent-minded individuals intend to do say or do one thing and wind up saying or doing another, even the opposite of what was originally intended. Forgetting is commonplace. As a result, the dyslexic's speech and action patterns may often exhibit a disoriented and disjointed, even comical, quality, which many clinicians fallaciously consider due to primary psychogenic determinants. However, upon analysis, the dyscoordination or slip between intention and speech or motor response was most often found lacking a primary emotional causation, and appeared qualitatively consistent with the dyslexic symptomatology. In retrospect, these slips invariably provoked secondary emotional attempts at compensation; and the unsuspecting psychiatrist and psychologist will unwittingly mistake secondary defensive reaction with primary causation. For example, some dyslexics become embarassed, blush, and retreat socially as a result of their slips, while others attempt to joke and rationalize them away.
http://people.tribe.net/4b0cf8c4-1fc3-4171-92d3-b0915985bf95/blog/30374e65-6843-4843-b689-d30a34ae8e54




The following explains my communication compensation.
I believe that it's reflected by my Mars oppose Mercury/Saturn midpoint which is actually 11th Harmonic Triangle of Mars,Mercury,Saturn. Some astrologers would say that it's Saturn in Gemini. Some astrologers that use declinations would say that it's Mercury contraparallel Saturn.


page 48 to 49 from A SOLUTION TO THE RIDDLE OF DYSLEXIA(The DISCOVERY OF
CEREBELLAR-VESTIBULAR SYNDROMES by Harold N. Levinson, MD

"Paradoxically, some dyslexics were found to demonstrate highly organized, crystal-clear thinking and expressive styles. Upon analysis, many of these individuals were found to have had subtle and compensated speech impediments during their early childhood. In retrospect, their highly condensed speech patterns appeared to be defensive or adaptive attempts at minimizing speech output and thinking errors. Although these dyslexics were often incapable of spontaneous free-associative and reflective speech, they were more than capable of performing these same very same functions in silence.


For example, when asked to freely think aloud about a question, they could not or would not. But they could, and would,invariably produce the answer after a silent pause----clearly demonstrating their highly developed, silent associative and reflective thinking capacities.

Following recognition and resolution of their guarded or defensive speech mechanisms, many learned to think aloud and to express themselves without embarassed or fear of criticism. Later adult stories not only confirmed these observations but revealed the existence of dyslexics who were capable of free association and reflection only when writing. Their fluent and lucid writing styles appeared to be motivated similarly by dyslexic verbalization difficulties which were compensated for by gifted and/or unhampered writing functions. "
http://people.tribe.net/4b0cf8c4-1fc3-4171-92d3-b0915985bf95/blog/30374e65-6843-4843-b689-d30a34ae8e54

I can related to everything above. My speech and writing styles are based on compensation and special education therapy remediation.


If I focus on my Mercury aspects to check out my thought processes in regards to that.....well...I have


Mercury undecile Uranus - '19
Mercury quinqueundecile Sedna - '07
Uranus quinqueundecile Sedna - '26
( with corresponding midpoint picture of:
Sedna oppose Mercury/Uranus - '17)
I believe that this configuration indicates my nonlinear thought processes along with being innovative,creative(can seem too out there in my thinking like crazy,nutty)highly imaginative,strong 3D visualization abilities,non-stop visualization because of picture thinking being my primary mode of thought)


Mercury quinqueundecile Saturn - '25
Mercury quinqueundecile Sedna - '07
Saturn undecile Sedna - '17
(with corresponding midpoint picture of:
Mercury oppose Saturn/Sedna midpoint - '16)
I also believe that this configuration also indicates my strong 3D visualization abilities...especially in regards to looking at geometry, but also can be problems with communications as well thoughts of inadequacy,depression)

not only do I have those 11th harmonic triangles,
I also have an opposition of midpoints

Mercury/Sedna in 10'13 Aquarius
oppose Saturn/Uranus in 10'12 Leo
conjunct/oppose Lunar Nodes are in 10'29 Aquarus/Leo

as you see, they are opposite each other with only 1 minute of arc. Magi Society refers to that as a magi quad. The Hamburg School calls it a planetary picture. David Cochrane(founder of Cosmic Patterns,Kepler) calls it an isosceles trapezoid. The midpoints are closely aligned with the lunar nodes.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=479434600900&set=a.135275015900.141349.596565900&type=3&theater


an 11th harmonic (rebellion,instability,social consciousness) configuration of Mercury-Mars-Saturn-Uranus-Sedna
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=479433400900&set=a.135275015900.141349.596565900&type=3&theater


Mercury biquintile Eris - '06

Mercury square Makemake - 2'01.


I am interested in astrological indicators for neurodivergence and helping my fellow neurodivergents with Astrology. I had a Heliocentric Astrological consultation with Philip Sedgwick back around the end of November. I told him that I want to specialize in helping special education needs/neurodivergent children.



Without special education therapies, I'd still be autistic-like which got me misplaced with the intellectually handicapped.
Now I am Aspergers-like in regards to seeming odd, weird.


I will post in the thread about my astrological theories about neurodivergence.
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Raymond Scott



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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Konrad wrote:
Hi Raymond,

I'm not following a lot of what you have said since I don't use the techniques myself but I am wondering what difference the zodiac you use makes if you don't use signs or houses?


Timing

The more that we age, the more divergence there is between the tropical transits,return charts and sidereal transits,return charts.

At the age of 36 years old, the difference between tropical transits and sidereal transits is 30 minutes and the difference between tropical zodiac solar returns and sidereal zodiac solar returns is 12 hours.
At the age of 72 years old, the difference between tropical transits and sidereal transits is 1 degree and the difference between tropical zodiac solar returns and sidereal is 1 day.

There are tropical zodiac astrologers that use precession correction with transits and return charts. Robert Hand uses precession correction with tropical zodiac transits.


This is what Robert Hand wrote in his book PLANETS IN TRANSIT:


PRECESSION CORRECTION
from PLANETS IN TRANSIT Life Cycles for Living by Robert Hand

"Another issue that should be considered in trying to predict when transit patterns will reach their maximum influence is the matter of precession. Most astrologers are aware that the vernal equinox, otherwise known as the first point of Aries, does not remain stationary with respect to the fixed stars but moves backward through them at the rate of approximately 50.25 seconds per year. This is because of the effects of the gravitational pull of the Moon and planets upon the rotational cycle of the Earth on its axis. This movement has caused the signs of the zodiac and the constellations of the same name to slip out of alignment with each other by about 25', depending upon how one measures the constellations. Because of this problem, one group of astrologers has abandoned the signs based on the vernal equinox called the "tropical" zodiac and adopted a zodiac that is fixed with respect to the stars, called the "sidereal zodiac."

The problem for us is not which zodiac to use, but that the timing of transits taken in the two zodiacs begins to differ significantly as a person gets older. This effect beings to be noticeable by your late twenties, and when you are seventy-two years old, there will be a difference of one degree between the two positions, which significantly affects the timing of outerplanet transits. Even more important, this problem almost immediately begins to affect return charts, that is, charts cast for the moment of the Sun's or Moon's return to tis exact natal position. By the age of thirty-six, one's tropical solar return differs from one's sidereal solar return by twelve hours, which completely alters the positions of the planets in the houses.

I personally feel that the signs of the tropical zodiac give interpretive results that are more useful than those of the sidereal, but I recognize that it is possible to treat the tropical zodiac as if it were moving. In other words, one should treat the natal positions of the planets as if they were fixed stars. Since the vernal equinox moves backward, the positions of the fixed stars move forward in the tropical zodiac. Opinion differs on this point, but many astrologers agree that at the very least, determining the positions of the natal chart corrected for precession helps significantly in timing events. Examples of this are given in the case study of Nixon and Watergate.

My own experience has been that in timing an event the corrected positions are more accurate than the uncorrected ones, especially if you follow the rules given earlier in this chapter. If an event is signified by several transits, one of them is very likely to be close using uncorrected positions, but the average orb is usually greater. Occasionally, no amount of explanation will make the precession-corrected transits time an event more closely than the uncorrected positions, but this is not usually the case. And frequently no amount of juggling can make the uncorrected positions time an event closely.

Alexander Marr of Germany believes that both positions are valid but for different purposes, and that certainly is a possibility. For the present I would suggest keeping track of both positions, until you have a feeling for what works best for you. In astrology there is the perennial problem that on many matters different astrologers have different experiences. To settle this particular dispute, more elaborate tests will have to be devised. But for the present I will explain how to make the precession connection so that you can judge for yourself."



Just because a person uses a certain zodiac doesn't mean that it has to be about zodiac sign analysis. Many astrologers don't use zodiac signs like uranian astrologers and Magi Astrologers as well as harmonic astrologers. Cosmobiologists put little emphasis on zodiac signs too.
The type of Astrology that I am into is a combination of Cosmobiology,Uranian Astrology,and Magi Astrology.

There is an Australian Astrologer Jamie Partridge who doesn't focus on zodiac signs. He just focuses on aspects. He also looks at conjunctions with fixed stars. He also uses use precession correction with transits and return charts.


I want to reiterate
Just because I have my divergent astrological views/practices doesn't mean that I think that the astrological views/practices of others are wrong.
Of course, I don't believe that my astrological views/beliefs are wrong because they are divergent from other astrologers views/practices

I do believe in astrological diversity just like I believe in diversity of all kinds of things. Diversity is definitely my greatest theme in life which manifests in my themes of ethnic diversity,neurodiversity, sex-hormonal diversity,and religious/spiritual diversity. With those themes of diversity, how could I not be tolerant of diversity? If I was, I'd be a hypocrite. I believe that it's connected to my very strong Eris energy.


Last edited by Raymond Scott on Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Paul
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:33 pm    Post subject: Re: My Switching To Sidereal Zodiac and only Planetary Geome Reply with quote

Raymond Scott wrote:
I have had ongoing questions about the tropical zodiac for years, noticing even inconsistencies with some tropical zodiac astrologers using precession corrected transits,return charts. There were issues about applying Northern Hemisphere season-based zodiac for people born in the Southern Hemisphere. I notice inconsistencies about planets ruling signs and people diverging from what Ptolemy did.


Hi Raymond

Not sure what the inconsistencies are regarding planetary rulerships in tropical astrology? I know that there are discussions with some modern astrologers who say that ceres should rules taurus, for example. Is this what you mean? My understanding is that whilst some happen to use a tropical zodiac that their arguments would equally translate to a sidereal zodiac. Having said that, I find their arguments meaningless either way Razz

Quote:
Reading Cyril Fagan's books have opened my eyes. I learned that the original zodiac was Sidereal and not Tropical.


Again, I think a bit of both.

Quote:

The Babylonians and Egyptians used the Sidereal Zodiac. The Greeks used the Tropical Zodiac. The Greeks seemed to mess up a lot of things that the Babylonians and Egyptians did. The Astrology that the Babylonians and Egyptians did were lunar based.


When you say the Babylonians were 'lunar based' what do you mean? Certainly the Moon was very important, but so too was the Sun.
Also what examples do you have in mind of where the Greeks 'messed up' what the Babylonians did? Do you mean the aconychal rising? In practical terms how is this different?

Quote:
The Babylonians and Egyptians used 12 equal sign zodiac. The 13 zodiac signs including Ophiuchus started with the Greeks.


Which Greek/Hellenistic author uses 13 signs?

Quote:

I am going to be a Sidereal Zodiac user for now on. The constellations don't get their meanings from the element,mode,and planetary ruler. All that was originated by the Greeks.


You will have seen Therese's comments that sign attributes came, partially, from planetary rulership/exlatations. If the constellations do not get their meaning from the element/mode/ruler then where do they get them from?

Quote:
I believe that Astrology works because of Planetary Geometry and not because of zodiac signs and houses.


Do we need a dichotomy? Can some astrology not work via planetary geometry and other astrology work by signs and houses? For example with no signs or houses a whole branch of astrology would have to be dropped: horary.

Quote:

I would use the Sidereal Zodiac, but I would only use it to measure aspects. I would also use both Geocentric and Heliocentric Charts.


But if you're not using signs then it would make no difference whether you measured from the equinox (tropical astrology), a fixed star (sidereal astrology) or any other arbitrary starting point. You'd only be measuring the distance between one planet and another. The zodiac would not be necessary then.

Quote:
Declinations is a tropical coordinate, and so as a Sidereal Astrologer, I can't use them


But if you don't use the signs, in what way are you a sidereal astrologer? In other words if you're not actually using the zodiac surely you're not a sidereal astrologer, nor a tropical astrologer?

Quote:
Looking at me from a 20th Century Astrological view wouldn't give a complete picture about who and what I am.


I find this very interesting and I wonder how true it is. For example I believe that most forms of astrology manage to encapsulate the native in some form or another. For example if I strip away the outer planets and use only the traditional ones and interpret my chart in a traditional style, it makes a great deal of sense. If I add them back in and interpret it from a modern psychological style, well that makes sense too, though in places the context shifts.

It might be interesting to post your chart here and have a traditional sidereal astrologer using the sidereal sign places interpret your chart.

Quote:
I don't think Mainstream Astrology can give insight into my neurodivergent conditions.


But surely you are much more than your neurodivergence. You're still a person who loves and feels and worries about their career and health and romance and all the rest just like every other person does, divergent or not. Now of course neurodivergence is an important factor in your life, but the point is that it is surely not the only one.

Quote:
A lot of astrologers will look at planetary afflictions like neurodivergent conditions are disorders. Who are they to consider us as disordered?


I understand what you are saying, however you seem to contradict yourself here, because just in the previous sentence you say "I believe that the same astrological indicators for neurodivergence as the same or similar to astrological indicators for serious psychiatric disorders because of the strong overlap between them"

I think most astrologers, like most people, would see neurodivergent behaviours as behaviours which are outside what would be considered the norm - the norm of course being highly mutable to begin with anyway. For example I have a slight stammer, it's on my father's side and several people in my family have it to some degree or another. Mine is pretty mild. If I look to my chart I might strip out my outer planets and note that Mercury is combust in the 8th house and so can be considered afflicted. If I add them back in I notice an opposition of Mercury to Uranus, a planet of disruption and volatility. Either of these might describe these condition. But any person, astrologer or otherwise, who considered it a disorder, would, perhaps not be necessarily wrong, in that the what we consider normal for speech would not be a stutter. If they said "it's unnatural" that's a different thing altogether.

Quote:
Please.....Next time I post, I'd appreciate that you don't bring my grammar,language,and communication irregularities into it.


Raymond

Regarding James' comment on your writing style, I don't think it was meant as a critique, more as a suggestion that writing style can affect how easily a passage can be read - in that sense I genuinely think he was trying to help you. In other words I think he was saying that he struggled to follow along as, for him, the words didn't necessarily flow and suggesting a way in which it might help you communicate to a wider audience.
However, I can see where you are coming from. You are specifically not trying to make global 'truth' claims. Instead you're trying to make sure that everyone knows that this is simply your own viewpoint, hence the "i" statements. You are being clear that this is just your view and your experience.



(btw as you're not really using a sidereal zodiac here, I wonder how relevant these topics are to this forum. Maybe the general astrology forum instead as your promoting non-sidereal approaches like heliocentric astrology and so on? I dunno. maybe the admins may choose to move it there?)
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Raymond Scott



Joined: 08 Mar 2012
Posts: 20

Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First I want to make a disclaimer:

This is just post on a theory that I have.
You could say that it's just a belief,view,or opinion.
Therefore, I am not passing things as fact or knowledge.
I am the type of person that doesn't believe in having knowledge of any kind because I think that whatever knowledge that I do have is only relative to what I believe,think,have view or opinion of. Therefore, I hate using words like "I know." I only want to share what I learn and understand and even that can be argued as relative because whatever I learn and understand may not even actual learning and understanding. It could just be a perception and even an illusion.




Transneptunian Dwarf Planets and Overexcitabilities



"Dabrowski's Theory of Positive Disintegration


"Dabrowski talked about OE's - over-excitabilities ("superstimulatabilities"), and how the gifted were extremely sensitive in a variety of areas. It's a stimulus-response difference from the norms. It means that in these 5 areas a person reacts more strongly than normal for a longer period than normal to a stimulus that may be very small. It involves not just psychological factors but central nervous system sensitivity."
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/dabrowski.htm


I believe that the transneptunian dwarf planets are factors. For years on astrological forums, I have strongly hinted at the connection between neurodivergence and metaphysical orientation. I have also raised awareness about the overlapping traits between neurodivergence and psychiatric disorders like schizophrenia. I have talked about the transneptunian dwarf planets as possibly factors for all of them because I actually believe all those things are connected to each other.


According to Philip Sedgwick: Transneptunian dwarf planets are considered evolutionary intensified objects.

"Evolutionary Intensified Objects. Evolutionary suggests that emotional and spiritual crisis induced by the presence and passage of these bodies intends to enhance the insight, inspiration, creativity and consciousness of a person on Earth and through events on Earth containing these bodies in significant locations."



This is my take:

I believe that the energy of the transneptunian dwarf planets involve lessons,experiences that can really make or break you. The hard aspects tend to indicate the possibility of experiencing some type of trauma which may be trying to the spirit but can eventually help you to grow spiritually. What doesn't kill you can make you stronger is something that can be applied to the transneptunian dwarf planets,transneptunian dwarf planet candidates.

They are highly metaphysical energies that involve insight,inspiration,and creativity that should be used not just for your benefit but for the benefit of many others. These energies are about about going well beyond self and tapping into that mass consciousness. There is a potential to really make a mark on the world and affect people on a grand scale.

Saturn is the planet known as the planet of physical boundaries. All the planets beyond Saturn are referred to as outerplanets, and so they are related to metaphysical energies. Uranus is the planet of liberation from boundaries as it breaks way with its need for independence,and it is associated with innovation and intuitive flashes. Neptune is the planet of dissolution of boundaries as it pierces the veil to reveal another world,and it is associated with imagination,inspiration, and psychism. Pluto is the planet of elimination of boundaries, and is compared to being the other side. This could be death,afterlife,or could be the subterranean depths of the human psyche. It is possible that Pluto's fellow transneptunian objects could be similar to Pluto. I believe that Pluto and its fellow transneptunians can be energies so metaphysical that they can be hard to handle and can manifest as problems on the physical plane.

Their very distant location,their tendency to orbit off the ecliptic as well as some of them with highly elliptical orbits make them objects that are divergent from the planets. Therefore, people with strong transneptunian energies can be divergent from the norm. They can be quite the nonconformists. I suspect that these are the same people that can relate to personality types like Indigo,Crystal,Earth Angel,Lightworker too. The same energies could be prominent in people with neurodivergences like Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,ADHD, Autistic Spectrum. The energies could be prominent in people that are schizophrenic,bipolar. The symptoms/traits of neurodivergence overlap with those of schizophrenia,bipolar. Because of the narrow-minded views about the metaphysical and sensitivities by scientific,mental health commmunity, metaphysically oriented types could get misdiagnosed as schizophrenics or bipolars. Transneptunian dwarf planet people can find it hard to live in a society with mainstream religion and psychiatry.

I believe that people strong in transneptunian dwarf planet energy are people that are ahead of their time which reflects how transneptunians weren't discovered until 1990's except for Pluto in 1930. I think that Pluto's fellow big transneptunians are very complex objects,and so it make sense that they are not easy to understand exactly how they work. That fits perfectly with them being objects that orbit beyond Neptune and being discovered in the 21st Century. They are so recently discovered,and so they aren't understood well. Of course, they are complex and mysterious objects - far more so than Pluto. It would make sense for people strong in the 21st Century objects to be complex,mysterious,and not easy to understand. The transneptunians as extremely primitive remnants of the solar system could mean that people strong in transneptunian dwarf planet energy are also deeply connected to the past. It is said that highly metaphysically oriented people are intuitive,perceptive,and deeply connected to both the past and future that would be in synchronicity with how transneptunian objects are very primitive solar system remnants discovered later than the planets. The transneptunians failed to form as planets. I see that as like how transneptunian dwarf planet people don't fit in easily with other people. Their belief in and practice of metaphysical,occult systems can be seen as too primitive by mainstream people that believe in knowledge of science. The transneptunians are so far away from the Sun, that they are shrouded in darkness. These transneptunians can be viewed as the shadow,and deep unconscious of a person. Many Transneptunian dwarf planet people's beliefs in metaphysical,occult systems can be be viewed as being "dark" by people that hold conservative religious beliefs.

Astrologers tend to focus on Moon,Neptune,and Watersigns in regards to sensitivity, but I actually believe that the ultrasensitive nature of Pluto has been overlooked. Neptune is said to be the planet of ultrasensitivity. As an object that orbits beyond Neptune, it would make sense for Pluto to be associated with ultrasensitivity that is more pronounced than Neptune. Pluto is associated with intensity. Maybe the intensity is actually connected to an ultrasensitivity. For the more we react to stimuli and internalize it, the more intense we are. Now we know that Pluto isn't the only object in the transneptunian regions of our solar system. Pluto's fellow transneptunian dwarf planets could also be similar to Pluto. Sedna has the greatest average distance of all objects in our solar system, and so it make sense to be an object that is associated with the greatest ultrasensitivity and intensity.

In Wrong Planet Group which is a group for Autistic Spectrum people, an Aspie asked if Aspies feel things more intensely than NT's. Aspie is another term for Aspergers. NT stands for Neurotypical which means normal neurological processing people. There was talk about feeling but internalizing as the intensity of feeling is often overwhelming. The Aspies said that it has to do with sensory issues that include heightened senses. They say that they are more emotionally intense than most. I said that I could relate even though I don't have Aspergers Syndrome. I said that I am Dyslexic,Dyspraxic,ADHD, and so I am not an NT. I pointed out that sensory processing/integation issues is common in people with neurodivergent condtions in general and not just autistic spectrum. I also said that some people even wonder if sensory processing/integration issues and Dyspraxia are one and the same. I even pointed out that Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,and ADHD overlap in symptoms/traits as well as have considerable co-morbidity. I said that I wouldn't generalize NT's. I pointed out that not all NT's are the same. I said that definitely not all non-Autistic Spectrum people are the same for there are other ND's that aren't autistic spectrum that don't fit the neurological norms. I find it interesting that Autistic Spectrum people talk about feeling more intensely than NT's. It makes sense when you look at it from the view of overexcitabilities. I believe that the transneptunian dwarf planet energy is strongly connected to overexcitabilities, sensory processing/integration issues,and neurodivergent conditions.

People that are into Metaphysical,New Age beliefs label overexcitabilities as traits as "Indigo", "Crystal", "Earth Angel", and "Lightworker." which they are linked to being gifted. Overexcitabilities are said to be a very common thing in gifted people

I believe that transneptunian dwarf planet is strongly connected to all these things.
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Raymond Scott



Joined: 08 Mar 2012
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I understand what you are saying, however you seem to contradict yourself here, because just in the previous sentence you say "I believe that the same astrological indicators for neurodivergence as the same or similar to astrological indicators for serious psychiatric disorders because of the strong overlap between them"


Sighs........Maybe I am stupid when it comes to expressing myself and try to make points.


In this forum, I try to make some points about overlapping traits of neurodivergent conditions and psychiatric disorders. Why do you think I was misdiagnosed by psychiatrists as having bipolar disorder with schizoaffective disorder. Why do you think part of my Neurodiversity Advocacy/Activism is to help raise awareness about the overlapping traits between neurodivergent conditions and psychiatric disorders? Why do you think I want to help prevent psychiatric misdiagnosing of neurodivergents.

http://www.sunmoonastrology.com/displayForumTopic/content/264891300837218143






I don't believe in mainstream Astrology any more, and I am not going to defend my views about that. I don't expect anybody to have to defend their views about Astrology. I have studied Astrology since 1998, and I have done a lot of free readings and given free reports to others over the years using Mainstream Astrology. It's just that I started having doubts and my views started changing in 2008.
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