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Mystery Chart Exercise March 11 2012
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varuna2



Joined: 20 Feb 2012
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Tom
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There is a difference between a self-created businessman, and someone who became a member of a corporate board. A member of a corporate board is more similar to a politician in a democracy - both of the latter are more similar to thugs, and exploiters of existing institutions; they only appear afterwards to exploit what others created.


This is an astrology exercise, not an editorial on class warfare. Please stick to the astrology.
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Deb
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Varuna

I'm still thinking about chart 1. That has Jupiter rising in Aquarius, so it's easy to relate that to a statesman-type figure concerned with social order, but it's hard to rule out commercial wealth since Jupiter rules the 2nd house too. Jupiter is in sextile to Mercury in the 10th house, so I think this person would be a communicator with big, expansive, or liberal ideas. However, because Mercury is in detriment and applying to the opposition of Saturn in Gemini it looks like it is a challenge to talk, or s/he has to think hard, or it involves serious matters. It doesn't look like this person is essentially gifted as a quick thinker/talker, but someone who needs to take time and make important judgements. I'm not too interested in Venus on the MC because it is combust and in detriment. That is more likely to show where this person fails (homelife?, since Venus rules IC; or trouble with parents, or with children since Saturn is Ret on 5th cusp and 5th ruler is afflicted).

That is why I don't think this chart belongs to a 'creative'.

The Moon is very powerful in the chart and being so close to the angle usually brings public recognition. Moon applies to 10th-ruler Mars in a Mercurial sign in the 8th house and Mars itself is in a close trine to the asc and Jupiter. So the three planets I recognise as being key are Jupiter on asc., Mercury in 10th, and Mars ruling MC and being applied to by the Moon. I think this fits the profile of someone who fights for justice or social concerns, who possibly has army connections, and who makes influential decisions rather than quick negotiations.

Ah, it's hard - entrepreneurs can be described by Mercury in good aspect to Jupiter, but here Mercury is opposite to Saturn and that doesn't feel right to me.

So I'm a bit stuck, but my best guess for chart one would be the politician. (If not the politician, then the buisness-man).

I'm assuming all three are male, though gender wouldn't make any difference to me anyway.
If I have to identify all three charts then I would put my money on:

1) Politician
2) Business man (no particular reason except he has to go somewhere)
3) Actor

I wonder if it amuses you to watch our torment Tom?
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Tom
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Deb I am amused at everyone's torment. In fact I had no idea that I had a sadistic streak, no matter how mild.

I'm going to give away a little but before I do, I wish to note that of all the posts, not one has anything that I would consider to be way out of line even when the guess is incorrect. There is some seriously good astrology here and this exercise is more difficult than the last or at least I think it is, and you'll see why in a second.

Yes they are all men. And I mentioned two of the three men have something in common in their backgrounds and they do. But here is a twist that may or may not influence. Of the two that are not the actor, one was born, raised, worked and died in the 19th century. I never said they were all contemporaries. Heh
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Paul
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom wrote:
But here is a twist that may or may not influence. Of the two that are not the actor, one was born, raised, worked and died in the 19th century. I never said they were all contemporaries. Heh[/color]


OH.


Well that change my reasoning for the actor. I was just assuming a modern actor which is often more a celebrity. My rationale was also that Mercury would be important in an actor's chart, though obviously important in a politician's chart too. So my choices of either Chart 1 or 2 still stand for the actor (with the other one being, I would guess, the politician) but if it was an old classical actor maybe that detrimented angular mercury would be more pertinent.
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Deb
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In terms of identifying one planet in each chart to act as the significator of 'magistry', following traditional methods, I would identify it as Mercury in chart 1 and Venus in charts 2 and 3. I wonder if others agree or disagree with that?

Paul - he said one of the two that are not the actor died in the 19th century, so it sounds like the actor is contemporary, but that our businessman might not have had a mobile phone glued to his ear, or the politician wasn't a member of the Official Monster Raving Loony Party - I don't know how it would make a difference. I keep coming across the discussion of this in traditional works and it's distracting me. So far today I've read Rhetorius and Schoener - most of the attributions hold up over time, although why Schoener believes that "a fornicator" belongs under his list of professions I don't know.
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Deb
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom - when you release the answers, could you just tell us one of the charts to begin with? Then we get a chance to discuss that chart whilst rethinking the other two with better odds Smile
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Atlantean



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb,

A fornicator?

I knew my guidance counselor didn't cover all the ground!

I had a 100 score in mechanical engineering, just my luck!

Oh well, I'm not as young as I once was, so I can assume by this time, I would have gotten laid off (npi) or replaced by someone much younger, anyway. Wink

Re: The Challenge

I didn't use Traditional methods, though I did arrive at my answer without using the outers, so maybe I get an honorary traditional credit?

Man, can't even schmoooze "the boss". Wink

Oh well, my (hopefully intelligent) guesses stand as per my original posts....

Chart 1... Politician

Chart 2... Actor

Chart 3... Business Executive

Thanks for the challenge, Tom... Right or wrong, I look forward to the wrap-up.

James


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james_m



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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi tom,
thanks for the additional info.. it is always interesting and as i have said a few times for me it is not about getting it right but about learning the process whereby others arrive at there answer.. we all process the astrology differently.. there are many considerations that can be made and we don't treat them all equally which explains why we arrive at different conclusions.. for me watching how others think the astro puzzle thru is most rewarding..

hi deb,
funny thing about dictionaries is they don't include some of the astro words used in astrologers vocabulary.. case in point is your word - magistry.. i haven't seen the word used before in an astro context, but would like to be able to offer a response to you.. the word magistery does however show up in the dictionary :
1.
an agency or substance, as in alchemy, to which faculties of healing, transformation, etc., are ascribed.
2.
Obsolete . mastership.

deb quote :In terms of identifying one planet in each chart to act as the significator of 'magistry', following traditional methods, I would identify it as Mercury in chart 1 and Venus in charts 2 and 3. I wonder if others agree or disagree with that?

i have already stated what i think are the dominant planets to the chart, but i am basing it on factors which may have some of trad astro mixed with my own and or more modern ideas. the question could be asked of me - what do you mean by dominant planets to which i would reply - what i think is the dominant planet to the chart. if that has anything to do with magistry, i am not sure, but think it might..

chart 1 - sun and jupiter - close tie for strongest body in the chart.
chart 2 - mercury
chart 3 - moon
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Deb
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you should get full marks for trying James, even if all your answers are wrong.

This comment is for James_m - because he asked for some feedback on his understanding of which planet is best placed by phase, sect, etc. I'll be happy to do that later, but it will be easier for me if you wait until I can upload a table I'm working on.
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varuna2



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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Deb
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest, I haven't looked closely at charts 2 and 3 yet and I'm not sure if I will, but the more I do glance at chart 2 the more I keep thinking it probably is the actor, for the reason I said earlier. I am hesistant over that one, but if I'm wrong I'm wrong - this is not the sort of thing I usually do with astrology (except in thsi forum) so it's all an experiment.
I'm not personally bothered about what systems astrologers use, but in this forum we're trying out traditional techniques. I suppose it was a mistake to pick up on one of your points in mine, but it was only to agree with something.

Quote:
I don't know much about the inner planet phases, but isn't it true that mercury and venus are more immune to combustion? The problem is that when I look at the Venus I see it in Libra in the 10th.


Well I have read a lot about combustion in traditional works and I haven't noticed anyone saying that it doesn't apply to Venus or Mercury. There seems to be a general view nowadays that Mercury is more immune because it spends much more time around the Sun. I'm not sure if Morin said something about that - perhaps Tom will know. I give Mercury more leeway because I see it as the 'announcer' precisely because when it is oriental it announces the rising of the Sun. So I do believe that Mercury has a special role to play in extending out solar principles. It has a lot to do with the mind, and the Sun is the Creative Mind, so when Mercury is Under the Sun's beams I take that as a deep thinker or someone who is more imaginative and poetical, etc. But that's when it's under the beams and not closely combust - the only thing I have noticed about inferior planet combustion in traditional works is that the limits of severe affliction are expected to be closer than with the other planets. Venus is close enough for me to consider it to be too recently combust and so not free yet - too hidden and weak to be used effectively.
The only circumstance that might have been argued against this in traditional literature is if it had been in its own dignities or the Sun has received it. Because it's close in combustion and in detriment and not received, Venus is not a good planet as far as I'm concerned. It's angular though, so I'm more inclined to think this is a handicap.

Quote:
It may interest you that Mercury is almost exactly sextile Jupiter and its opposition to Saturn has an 11 degree orb in Chart 1?

Yes, the aspect to Jupiter is tight and so important, and really Mercury's aspect with Saturn is a bit out of orb; but because Mercury's opposition to Saturn is its next application, and Saturn is retrograde (making it a mutually applying aspect) and because Saturn is disposed by Mercury, I think the applying opposition is relevant - especially since Saturn is the ascendant ruler.
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pankajdubey



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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Magistry


http://academy.shivtr.com/pages/magistry

or
from Oxford dictionaries online

magister
 
Pronunciation: /ˈmadʒɪstə, məˈdʒɪstə/
noun
archaic
a title or form of address given to scholars, especially those teaching in a medieval university.

Origin:
late Middle English: from Latin, 'master'

PD
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margherita



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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb wrote:
In terms of identifying one planet in each chart to act as the significator of 'magistry', following traditional methods, I would identify it as Mercury in chart 1 and Venus in charts 2 and 3. I wonder if others agree or disagree with that?.


It's not easy to say something without a date. In the second chart Venus is near enough to the Sun, she could be visible or invisible or she could be in her heliacal rising.
We need a place and a date to know...

It's difficult to evaluate a profession without knowing which planets are visible and which not Sad

margherita
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varuna2



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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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