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Hour agreement

 
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Yuriy



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 360

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:35 pm    Post subject: Hour agreement Reply with quote

I've read about hour agreement and looks like culmination in sign isn't enough to consider chart radical.
For instance if AC in Libra and Saturn is hour's ruler (in night chart Mercury is triplicity ruler)?
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rosario



Joined: 08 Feb 2012
Posts: 4

Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi
read this http://www.skyscript.co.uk/perfection.html
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Yuriy



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 360

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rosario wrote:
hi
read this http://www.skyscript.co.uk/perfection.html


And?
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Tanit



Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 1118
Location: California, USA

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
For instance if AC in Libra and Saturn is hour's ruler (in night chart Mercury is triplicity ruler)?


Right, Saturn isn't lord of the ASC, Saturn doesn't agree with the air triplicity at night (only in the day), Saturn's humoral nature only agrees with an earth sign rising.

You would look to Venus as the lord of the ASC and see if she is in the same triplicity as Saturn, the hour ruler. If she isn't, then it fails the standard rules for hour agreement.
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Yuriy



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
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Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit wrote:
Quote:
For instance if AC in Libra and Saturn is hour's ruler (in night chart Mercury is triplicity ruler)?


Right, Saturn isn't lord of the ASC, Saturn doesn't agree with the air triplicity at night (only in the day), Saturn's humoral nature only agrees with an earth sign rising.

You would look to Venus as the lord of the ASC and see if she is in the same triplicity as Saturn, the hour ruler. If she isn't, then it fails the standard rules for hour agreement.


So,those rules ignoring culmination in sign, while triplicity ruler practically equal to sign ruler.
Those rules of agreement are not directly related to planet's strength/relation to AC degree. And what are roots of that(I've read the article about hour agreement)?
Saturn in Libra in this case, even ruled by Venus (AS ruler) and still being left behind...
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Tanit



Joined: 01 Aug 2008
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Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yuriy, I am not familiar with the technique you are using. Is it a new technique or something that the ancients used? Maybe you can reference the article where you received this information.
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Yuriy



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
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Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit wrote:
Yuriy, I am not familiar with the technique you are using. Is it a new technique or something that the ancients used? Maybe you can reference the article where you received this information.


I meant that don't need to mention that Deborah Holding's article about hour agreement, I've read it already.
By the way, I've just reviewed another her article "The classical use of triplicity" and noticed that the day triplicity ruler for watery sign changed to Venus. I've heard it before at other traditional astroforums, but at this site for long time Mars was only ruler for both day and night charts.
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Tanit



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Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
By the way, I've just reviewed another her article "The classical use of triplicity" and noticed that the day triplicity ruler for watery sign changed to Venus. I've heard it before at other traditional astroforums, but at this site for long time Mars was only ruler for both day and night charts.


Using the Dorothean triplicity rulers is a bit controversial. Most horary astrologers probably don't. Lilly didn't, as far as I know.

Also, those who use Dorothean triplicities often use all three planets for both day and night, (from what I understand) right? Water: Venus, Mars and Moon day; Mars, Venus, Moon night, etc. They are especially significant for looking at time in a natal chart, where they are broken up into three time figures, such as youth, middle age and elderly age. For example, if you have a Cancer ASC like I do, Venus might rule your triplicity years in youth (still Moon governs above that), Mars your middle years, and Moon your latter years for the 1st house. I am not sure how relevant these are in horary, though... Maybe others who use the Dorothean triplicities can elaborate on how they use them in horary, such as in hour agreement rules.

I still don't understand your use of "culmination in a sign." Please do elaborate so I can understand better, thanks!
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Yuriy



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 360

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Tanit"]
Quote:
as in hour agreement rules.

I still don't understand your use of "culmination in a sign." Please do elaborate so I can understand better, thanks!


I'm using culmination meaning exaltation in sign sometimes . Actually culmination more exactly is being at MC degree.
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Paul
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Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Posts: 1138

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit wrote:
I still don't understand your use of "culmination in a sign." Please do elaborate so I can understand better, thanks!


I think he means being 'raised up' in the sign. As in being exalted.

edit: sorry I just see yuriy posted since I posted this.
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Paul
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Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Posts: 1138

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit wrote:

Using the Dorothean triplicity rulers is a bit controversial. Most horary astrologers probably don't. Lilly didn't, as far as I know.


No I think he used Ptolemy's (a modified version?) but I think Bonatti did use Dorothean triplicities from what I can make out.

Quote:

Also, those who use Dorothean triplicities often use all three planets for both day and night, (from what I understand) right?


I think it's mostly the day triplicity by day, the night triplicity by night, with the third triplicity participating by day or night.
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