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Sources of information on sidereal astrology

 
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
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Location: England

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:59 am    Post subject: Sources of information on sidereal astrology Reply with quote

I am aware that Kenneth Bowser is soon to have his book An Introduction to Western Sidereal Astrology published by AFA. I believe the deadline is to have it ready for the UAC conference in May. I think this will be quite a significant publication in terms of generating more interest in sidereal techniques amongst western practitioners, but have come to understand that within the general definition of 'sidereal astrology' there are areas where approaches differ.

It would be useful to outline some of the most useful and accessible sources of reference for sidereal techniques. Please use this thread to make your recommendations of books or other sources of information on this topic (ie, YouTube videos, links or blogs). Please try to give some information on why the book or resource is useful, whether it takes a specific focus or covers a certain approach, and whether it is aimed at beginners or advanced students, etc.
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe that James Eshelman's web site is the most up-to-date source for Western sidereal astrology. The site contains various topics and postings as well as active discussion forums. Questions are welcome.
Note: The sidereal signs on this web site are called "constellations." This can be very confusing as 30 degree equal signs are not constellations.
http://solunars.net/index.php
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Astraea



Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Posts: 300
Location: Colorado, USA

Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing that can be confusing (if one is not expecting it) about Eshelman's approach, is that he advocates clockwise house numbering. Here is his rationale, as outlined on his forum:

The key point in this model is that the series of houses is necessarily a clockwise cycle.

Consider that astrology, as a window upon the rest of Nature, reflects natural rhythms and cycles in human behavior. The series of signs is recognizably in the order Aries, Taurus, Gemini, etc. because this is the order in which we continually experience the sign qualities due to the passage of the Sun, Moon, and (with periodic back-and-forthing) all of the other planets through the signs. In other words, each time we finish the experience of "Aries-ness" we can rightly expect to move into a phase of "Taurus-ness." Each year, the Sun and its inner-planet entourage reinforce this westward movement. Each month the Moon replicates it as well. The order of the signs is repeatedly reinstated in our consciousness, reinforced by a reiterated rhythm.

However, there is no comparable counter-clockwise pattern to the houses in nature. Every day, each planet rises, ascends to the Midheaven, sets, anticulminates, and prepares to reascend. The rhythm of the houses is clockwise. Every day, each of us experiences the sequential flow of two luminaries, eight planets, and however many other significant astrological bodies exist, passing through the houses in the order 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, ,5 ,4, 3, 2, 1 - a "countdown to selfhood." If there is to be found in the houses an orderly, sequential pattern - as I believe exists - it will most likely be found in following the path through the houses described by the planets themselves every day, even every hour, of our lives.


Eshelman is not alone in this approach. An English translation of a book by the late French siderealist, Jacques Dorsan, was published last year, entitled The Clockwise House System: A True Foundation for Sidereal and Tropical Astrology. As the title suggests, Dorsan advocates a numbering system which he claims works well with either zodiac - though he, like Eshelman, is an avowed siderealist. The book's example charts are cast in the sidereal zodiac, with Placidus houses (a departure from the more common use of the Campanus system among western siderealists - Eshelman among them).
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the link to Dave Roell's (astroamerica.com) lengthy review of Kenneth Bowser's new book, An Introduction to Western Sidereal Astrology.
http://www.astroamerica.com/refer.html#b123
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave Roell wrote:
Neither system [Indian or western sidereal] makes any use of the twelve signs. Which is what one would expect, since there cannot be two parallel systems, tropical and sidereal, that differ, at the moment, by 24-ish degrees.

Another well-reasoned and knowledgeable review from Astroamerica, then.
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Location: California, USA

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin Gansten wrote:
Dave Roell wrote:
Neither system [Indian or western sidereal] makes any use of the twelve signs. Which is what one would expect, since there cannot be two parallel systems, tropical and sidereal, that differ, at the moment, by 24-ish degrees.

Another well-reasoned and knowledgeable review from Astroamerica, then.

Indeed!!
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Dave of Maryland



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 154
Location: Bel Air, MD

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 3:00 pm    Post subject: Indeed Reply with quote

Don't think that Martin cares for me, as I panned both of his books. Martin might take comfort in the fact that his two books outsell my three. Anytime an author does better than his critic, he's obviously a better writer. And has a better publisher.

I got here this morning by roundabout means. Am finishing up an article on the murderer Elliot Rodgers (what, no Skyscript discussion?) and thought to do a check with AstroDataBank. Where I learned that Mr. Starkman had set a birthtime of 8:10 am. I know of Isaac Starkman but wanted to run him down a bit and so ended up here. Then for the fun of it I searched for myself and found a dozen or so entries, several of them from Martin. I came up with my own time for Rodgers, of course. I always do.

My best to you all.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ot

hi dave,

anthony louis has a thread on elliot rodgers that you might want to check out here - http://tonylouis.wordpress.com/2014/05/27/killings-in-isla-vista-california/
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Dave of Maryland



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Location: Bel Air, MD

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, James
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Indeed Reply with quote

Dave of Maryland wrote:
Don't think that Martin cares for me, as I panned both of his books.

I've no opinion of you personally, Dave, as I've never met or spoken to you; but I will say that much of what you write makes you come across as ignorant and opinionated at the same time, which is never an attractive combination. It also tends to make one virtually ineducable. Your views on my book (I've only published one in English, apart from my doctoral thesis, which is out of print) don't enter into the matter as far as I am concerned, except as an instance of the above.
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Dave of Maryland



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Martin,

I thought I had two books by Gansten in stock, one on Primaries, the other mentioning Blagrave, but can now only find the one on primaries. Apologies.

I am not an academic but a conceptualist. I am often a horse's ass as a result. I will change opinions on the spot when better work is shown to me, which makes me erratic and even more of the above. I wish I could re-write 3/4ths of my website, but cannot, which means I am condemned by my own words and deservedly so.

But I have dared what others have not, and while there are penalties, there are rewards as well. I left a note here earlier today because it seems you have made comment several times already, when there was no need to comment at all and which sounds like grudge work. I was amused.

If you dislike what I have written, if you feel I have been unfair or am mistaken, you are welcome to bring that to my attention. Aside from the home page, on every page of my website you will find two email slots, top and bottom. There is one at the top of every newsletter. I will respond. If I find I am wrong I will change my remarks and apologize, as I often do. There is, in fact, no better way to actually teach me and I have often profited and been genuinely thankful. On the other hand, if, after re-examining my work, I think I am right, I will defend myself. The exchange can be lively.

I do not call people ignorant and opinionated, nor do I parade a doctoral thesis or make claims about my qualifications. You are not to imagine I lack them. Make your grievances known, or remain silent.

Since you brought my work into this thread, wanna debate tropical vs: sidereal? Let's start:

On what specific foundation are the sidereal signs based? Ayanamsa will do only if there is unanimous agreement upon one single point. Otherwise we need a better rationalization and, yes, if properly presented, God Told Me So is acceptable.
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, Dave, I have neither the time nor the inclination for a 'lively exchange' with you. It's not a matter of dislike or a grudge, or of having a degree or not: you simply don't know what you're talking about a lot of the time, which makes it pointless (not to mention wearying) to try having a discussion.

Quote:
Since you brought my work into this thread, wanna debate tropical vs: sidereal?

No, that is not what this forum is for, and I give fair warning that I will remove any such posts if and when I see them. Take them to the General or Philosophy forums if you like (but I won't be replying).
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Dave of Maryland



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a reply, but you have reached the stage of not reading, which means I am excused to not write.

Please accept my apologies for existing. I cannot help myself.
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RodJM



Joined: 02 Feb 2014
Posts: 66
Location: Tasmania!

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had some more links, but the domains have expired or they've moved and renamed themselves..

Here's some from my list:

http://www.solsticepoint.com/astrologersmemorial/siderealists.html

http://siderealist.com/changing_your_sign.html - This is a bit radical with nice artwork, but then again, modern astrology needs radicals to kick it up!

http://freesiderealastrology.com/tag/why-you-should-trust-sidereal-astrology/

http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/zodiacworldview.html - Christopher Warnock's views on comparisons between tropical, sidereal and constellational zodiacs.


Very Happy
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Therese Hamilton



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
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Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Rod, but in my humble opinion my web site gives the best foundation for understanding the sidereal zodiac. I'm not out there on the lecture or conference circuit, so the site has been quietly sitting there since about 2004 with new articles added now and then. By this time some revision is needed...if only there would be the time.

For now my sense is that Hellenistic and classical principles put the cherry on the sidereal cake, so to speak. I'm deeply grateful for the translation work that has been done by Robert Schmidt, Robert Hand, Benjamin Dykes, Robert Zoller, James Holden and others. There are only a few, including Martin Gansten and myself, who see these principles best applied in the sidereal zodiac.

Just in the last few days I've discovered that harmonic number principles as discussed by David Hamblin fit the energy and symbolism of sidereal signs to a "T." Soon I hope to post something on the correlation.

The Solstice Point site you mentioned is a wonderful tribute to astrologers, and a great treasure trove of data for the study of the lives of astrologers, including the dates of death.
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