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triplicities
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 1827
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:26 pm    Post subject: triplicities Reply with quote

i am interested in whether folks are using the triplicities and if so, if you cared to talk about its role in understanding the chart better from your perspective. i ask partly as i am presently reading morins book 21 and note his use of this system to understanding the chart better.. thanks - james
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

perhaps the moderators could move this to the traditional and ancient technique section where it probably fits better..

i am reading classical astrology for modern living by lee lehman... she is fairly erudite and uses entertaining words like muzzy-headed and keeps one moderately entertained while going over her many astrological ideas. i like the book.

on page 107/108 she discusses some of the ins and outs of triplicity to which i am going to quote for those interested in this topic.

"we can begin to conclude from these examples that the seasonal component to the complexional type appears to be more useful in delineation that the triplicity one. my experience leads me to place about 2/3 reliance on the seasonal system and about 1/3 on the triplicity system. as we will see, the traditional method has components of each, but some other ideas are also embedded in it.. the medieval emphasis on triplicity as the premier rulership type may need some re-casting, with the idea that the triplicity patterns have the further usefulness of being a system of rulership.. but let us explore this in a little more detail. if we re-examine table two, let us consider instead the qualities of the planet comprising the triplicity rulerships. in the first row, the fiery triplicity, we have the sun, jupiter and mars. now both the sun and mars are hot and dry, which is what the triplicity is, but jupiter is hot and wet.. in the case of earth, only saturn is cold and dry. in the case of air, only jupiter is hot and wet. finally, in the case of water, only the moon is cold and wet.. thus it is clear that the qualities that have been assigned to the triplicities were not the basis for assigning the ruling planets!"

the book was published in 1996 a few years before greenbaum released her book on temperament. I don't recall greenbaum talking about triplicity as much and can't remember what she had to say about all of this.. I will have to go read her book again.
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Yukionna



Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 107

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Re: triplicities Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
i am interested in whether folks are using the triplicities and if so, if you cared to talk about its role in understanding the chart better from your perspective. i ask partly as i am presently reading morins book 21 and note his use of this system to understanding the chart better.. thanks - james


Hi James,

I use TR in the way I use the other rulers. To determine how the affairs of one house are connected to those of other houses, its 'good' or 'bad' depending on the zodiacal state of the TR.

Apart from that, the TR are used in certain techniques, eg calculation of the anareta (in the length of life technique) where one takes the first TR of 4th house into consideration.

TR also tell us something about the life of the native: 1st TR of AC = first third of life (appr. 25 years under normal circumstances), 2d TR 2d part etc.

Same goes for the houses. Each cusp obviously has three TR, each of which 'rules' over certain topics. eg: 4th house 1.TR father, 2d TR property and estate, 3d TR end of things. It does seem to vary a bit, depending on the author.

Other than that, it's true that a planet such as Saturn doesn't seem to fit in well with the element air, having completely different qualities. But it also depends on its planetary phase. Saturn isn't always cold, from 30 till 60 degrees oriental of the Sun he has a warm and moist quality, which is more in line with the sanguine nature of the airsigns.

Well, that's pretty much all I can say about that. I'm sure there's more to it, but that's how I use them.

Yuki


Last edited by Yukionna on Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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James E.



Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 105
Location: Canada

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I pretty much use triplicity rulers like Yukionna does


james
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks yuki and james for the feedback.

yuki,

i am aware how the triplicity idea can be applied, but i was curious to know if anyone actually uses it.. you have responded in the positive, so thanks for this.. have you found the idea of the tr rulers to have much bearing on the 3rds of life rulership and how peoples life pans out? i guess you have or you wouldn't use it.

how about the anareta technique? does that generally work out fairly accurately for you as well? i assume you have tried this technique on people that have already lived life and found it to have some relevance.

the idea of lee lehman dovetailing and contrasting triplicity with temperament was interesting for me.

i am not using triplicities at this point.. i have to understand it better.. it seems to overlap with planetary sect and spear bearers for the light of sect at this point for me.. it seems there are a profusion of techniques to choose from astrologically and one has to go with what they feel has merit.

did either of you guys do the 2 quiz that tom presented? i would be curious to see what you had to say on the next quiz using this triplicity technique as you both understand it.. thanks again - james
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 582

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi James,

I use the triplicities when looking at the Sect Light with its significations for prosperity. I don't use them as thirds though. I use the first two lords and use the ascensional times of the more angular one to give a rough estimate of how long the first triplicity ruler is given the duty. I find combining it with decennials gives a good result.
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Yukionna



Joined: 19 May 2010
Posts: 107

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James,
my experience with any kind of technique is still very limited, as I've only been at it for about 2 years. But I do use all the mentioned ones. I'm practicing the length of life calculation on another board, and have done only 10 charts or so, but my impression is that it's fairly accurate. Will see.
In ten years I may be able to tell you more. If I'm still alive then. Haven't done my own length of life yet Wink
Yuki
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James E.



Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 105
Location: Canada

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
did either of you guys do the 2 quiz that tom presented? i would be curious to see what you had to say on the next quiz using this triplicity technique as you both understand it.. thanks again - james



No I did not do the [3] triplicity rulers of the 2 quizzes partly because their lack of latitude of birth, since I work with ascensional times which depend on the native's latitude.

However I also work with the basic triplicity rulers in the following way: using Madoff's WSH chart we see that houses 2, 6 and 10 are in earth signs; being a diurnal birth the order of the [3] triplicity rulers is Venus, Moon and Mars. Whereas Yukionna attributes 25 years for the thirds of life, I opted for 28 years some time ago. So for each of these three houses this means Venus rules up to age 28, Moon from 28+ to 56, finally Mars rules from 56+ to 84.

The idea being that the triplicity rulers of each house change at about 28 and 56 and for some at 84 years old.

The overall condition of each triplicity ruler will let you know how their periods will be experienced.

Back soon with an example of working with ascensional times using Madoff.


james


Last edited by James E. on Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:55 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Yuriy



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 360

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ibn Ezra giving a lot for practical use of triplicity rulers.
For instance about MC triplicity rulers - first ruler represents native's mother, second is the highest rank achieved in profession, third is the profession itself
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James E.



Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 105
Location: Canada

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jerd wrote:
Back soon with an example of working with ascensional times using Madoff.


Using Bernie Madoff's chart, I use the degree of his latitude of birth which is 40°N, then using a Table of Ascensional Times I check the ascensional time of the sign Taurus at 40° latitude North (Madoff's 10th place by WSH) and come to 21°. So 21 becomes an age when career/status is highlighted; I also get 21 + 8 (Venus' minor period) and 21 + 25 (Moon's minor period) which are other ages when tenth house topics are highlighted in some way because the triplicity lords of the 10th WSH (Moon & Venus) are in the sign Taurus. The other triplicity ruler of the tenth, Mars, is in Gemini: the ascensional time of the sign Gemini at 40° latitude North is 28° which equals to 28 years old; you can also add Mars' minor period 15 + 28 = 43

So you have the following ages that are highlighted:

21 (Ascensional time of the sign Taurus)
28 (Ascensional time of the sign Gemini)
29 (Ascensional time of the sign Taurus + Venus' minor period)
43 (Ascensional time of the sign Gemini + Mars' minor period)
46 (Ascensional time of the sign Taurus + Moon's minor period)

Halves and thirds of these ages can also be used. For example 46 which is the ascensional time of the sign Taurus + Moon's minor period: 46 divided by 2 equals 23 and 46 divided by 3 equals 15.3 years.

Using the planets' minor years you can time the activation of certain aspects you have, the closest ones preferably. Example in Madoff's chart Moon and Sun are conjunct: Moon's minor period is 25 + Sun's minor period which is 19 = 44. The event(s) at that age affect the area(s) of life the planets occupy. Again halves and thirds of these ages can also be used.

There's a free, downloadable & printable Pdf format Table of Ascensional Times available on Project Hindsight or Dr. Ben Dykes sites.


james
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks yuki and james.

yuki

the triplicity concept is new to me as well, which is why i was asking if anyone actually used it much..


james,

do those ages pan out in having some bearing on important changes or transitions in madoffs life? that is what you use them for, correct? i don't know how they would dovetail with transit data for example. do you have to ignore the one to use the other? ascensional times sounds like doing primary directions in mundane, as opposed to zodiac.. i wonder if i have that correct? it makes sense to make a connection using something that is based on the actual time, as opposed to a flat rate where all signs are treated equally.
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James E.



Joined: 15 Jun 2008
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Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
james, do those ages pan out in having some bearing on important changes or transitions in madoffs life? that is what you use them for, correct?


Yes basically that's how I use them. As for Madoff I wouldn't know, I haven't studied his chart. But from the [few] ages I come up with using Madoff's tenth house example, I for one would hone in on ages 28/29 and 43 to 46 and check for either profections & solar returns [in combination] or transits and 1° a year directions.

The extracted ages are not always exact and I'm not sure it is essential for them to be exact, but they rarely miss pointing out high activity periods relating to the house studied.

I do not use primary directions so can't answer your thoughts on that.


james
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james_m



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Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james - with those ages you are essentially looking at the saturn cycle.
"ages 28/29 and 43 to 46"
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James E.



Joined: 15 Jun 2008
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Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
james - with those ages you are essentially looking at the saturn cycle.
"ages 28/29 and 43 to 46"


Madoff's 10th WSH ascensional times + the planets minor periods & the sum of planets minor years when in aspect from the example chart do happen to coincide with "the saturn cycle".

Is this constant in every chart I analyzed over the years? No.

james


Last edited by James E. on Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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Martin Gansten
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Joined: 05 Jul 2008
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Location: Malmö, Sweden

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
ascensional times sounds like doing primary directions in mundane, as opposed to zodiac.. i wonder if i have that correct?

The 'ascensional times' of a sign are the time it takes for that sign to rise at a particular location, expressed in degrees on the equator. Rising times are calculated by oblique ascension. Actual primary directions are calculated by right, oblique and mixed ascensions, so they are a bit more sophisticated mathematically speaking (and correspond better to astronomical realities, as oblique ascension is only used for places actually rising over the horizon). The 'mundane/zodiacal' distinction is a separate matter.
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