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Will my daughter Amelia get the job, yes or no?
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taurus



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 40

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:31 am    Post subject: Will my daughter Amelia get the job, yes or no? Reply with quote

Hello everyone

My daughter had recently attended an interview. On the 6th Feb (her interview day) I asked the question at 10:12, Asc=10-44 Taurus, coordinates are for Derby, 001W29'00" 52N55'00", will my daughter Amelia get the job, yes or no. She has already been informed of the outcome which was No! she didn't get the job.
I haven't posted here on the Skyscript forum for many years although I do visit the site. I'm afraid my horary studies have FALLEN by the wayside so I apologise for my lack of knowledge in advance.

A little background to the situation. The company are opening a retail unit in Derby and require 10 people for employment. Over 300 people attended the recruitment open day and all had an informal interview etc. Around 25 people would be invited to a final formal interview of which my daughter had done. The company are in the tanning and beauty business and already own 5 other salons in other areas within the Midlands. Of the 10 people they were employing, 2 positions would be for beauty; waxing, facials, nails etc, and the 8 further positions would be for tanning consultants; sunbeds/spraytan and reception; booking in and selling products. Amongst the 10 positions would be 1-2 positions for young apprentices.

My initial thoughts on the chart were YES! she will get the job. I believe we have to turn the chart because the question is not about me but my daughter. We start with the 5th house (my daughter), Leo on the cusp with the Sun ruler in Aquarius and in her 7th. The Sun (her ruler) is in detriment so in a bad position. My thoughts were that this could show that she didn't have the necessary experience or qualifications, however, she does have the qualifications for a beauty therapist (but no experience), and 4 years experience at a large retail store in a customer related, selling role (but no knowledge of tanning equipment and spraying). The company owner spoke on a local radio station about the new salon and spoke about providing jobs for the unemployed and that they would train people.

I then looked at the 2nd house (the job) which I believe is the 10th from the 5th of the chart, Gemini on the cusp and Mercury the ruler in Aquarius and in her 7th. Mercury has slight dignity by face so I judged that the job isn't that good and the pay is minimum wage (Mercury is also ruler of the jobs money). I judged that Mercury to conjoin the Sun exact in 1 degree showed the job going to her. The Moon is strong in it's own sign and square Saturn exact before leaving Cancer. Not sure what to make of this though. I can see the strengh of the Moon and Saturn in it's exaltation and triplicity and thought well Saturn rules the turned 7th so could it be that maybe the flow of events; the Moon to square Saturn, showing the job going to others.....well yes there are 10 positions so obviously some of the jobs are going to others. The approaching exact aspect of Mercury to the Sun convinced me she would get the job. As Deb says it's easy to become biased when as the astrologer your asking your own questions. I would be grateful for your comments.
Thank you Confused
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 582

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I wouldn't turn the chart here and just use the Asc to represent your daughter. She is signified by an exalted Venus in the 11th sign. The Moon is translating the light between Venus and the 10th ruler, Saturn. The only thing that concerns me is that Saturn is in his first station, 1 day from retrograde motion, and the translation completes with a square from Saturn's detriment.

With Venus so strong and the Moon so dignified while Jupiter sits on the Asc, I believe this shows how well your daughter has done to get so far but Saturn in first station "...signifies crossness and disobedience, and that the matter, though never so probable, will not be accomplished. If any work or building be then begun, it will not be finished" (Bonatti's 146 Considerations no. 74). Saturn is also cadent and in aversion to the Asc.

It is for this reason that I don't think she will get the job. Of course, if you are to turn the chart, then what I have outlined here is not true! I'll be interested to see the outcome of this situation.
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taurus



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 40

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Konrad

As I mentioned in my original post she did not obtain any of the positions. My thoughts were that she logically had about a 1 in 2.5 chance that she would get the job. What I can't understand is that if we just take the applying conjunction of Mercury to the Sun then yes she will get the job, but what does the Sun (her ruler) in detriment mean when she has the qualifications and experience and her interview went very well. Surely we have to decide one way or the other; the aspect as positive or the detriment as negative....how do we tackle this? Obviously this is in the turned chart which I believe is the right way to look at this. I initially took the 1st for my daughter and the chart 10th for the job and came up with the same conclusions as you except I didn't use Bonatti's first station rule. After further study I rejected the chart for the turned chart.

Thank you
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 582

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you did, sorry, I never saw that.

Well my answer would be not to turn the chart as you are not involved here but I think it is a valid question as you are obviously concerned about your daugter's life.

As for the Sun. The significator of the querent being in detriment in a job horary shows the person not suitable or able for the role or it is a job they really do not want to take. I use whole-signs for all of my astrological work, so the turned 5th is ruled by Mercury who also rules the job and with him being combust and having a Rx Mars in his house, then I would also have went for no there too.

A conjunction with the Sun, in my opinion, is not a beneficial thing even if the Sun rules the desired outcome unless he is received by the querent or the querent is received by a powerful benefic.

Going on what you have said about your daughter's performance and suitability, I would say that turning the chart is not the correct option since Venus is placed very nicely in the 11th and in exaltation. Saturn's being in first station also describes the outcome pretty well too - notice Bonatti says the significator in first station shows that anything started will not finish well even if it seems likely that it will. Your daughter started the process and it looked good but it was never finished.
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Seiko



Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 363
Location: Latvia

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless you are involved, do not turn the chart.

From CAII:

"If a Question be demanded of one absent in a generall way, and the Querent hath no relation to the party; then the 1st house, the Lord of that house and the Moon shall signify the absent party; [...]"

Now, people are focusing on the part in bold and start looking for their children/relatives in the chart but the truth is, it is true only if the Querent is involved in the situation. The Querent is looking for the Quesited (kid/brother/dog etc).

If the Querent would get the ASC at all times then the absent person would get the DSC, not the ASC. But that is not the case as you can see.

If you are looking for your daughter's dog, then you get the 1st House, your daughter is the 5th House and the dog would probably be the 6th House from the 5th House (well, also the radical 6th probably). But -- if your daughter lives separately and is looking for her dog, she calls you and asks where is my dog, you don't get the 1st House, even if you're asking the question to yourself.
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taurus



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 40

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I correct in saying that children fall under the rulership of the 5th and the job falls under the rulership of the 10th? Siblings fall under the rulership of the 3rd, therefore my childs brother is 3rd from the 5th. I'm asking about my childs job so therefore 10th of the 5th. Not sure I understand when you say not involved.
Thank you
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Seiko



Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 363
Location: Latvia

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

taurus wrote:
Am I correct in saying that children fall under the rulership of the 5th and the job falls under the rulership of the 10th? Siblings fall under the rulership of the 3rd, therefore my childs brother is 3rd from the 5th. I'm asking about my childs job so therefore 10th of the 5th. Not sure I understand when you say not involved.
Thank you


There's a metaphorical runner (the Querent) and a metaphorical finish line (the Quesited). If you are running yourself, you are the runner, you are involved, you get the 1st House.

If your daughter is running a marathon and you are interested in her prospects, you don't get the 1st House, you are not the runner, you're an on-looker. The same would be true is Arnold Schwarzenegger would run a marathon and you would ask about his chances just out of curiosity.

So she gets the ASC and all the rest significators are as usual.
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taurus



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 40

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seiko
Sorry, I have to disagree with you there.
According whatever school of thought one adheres to then the 10th house of the chart is my job/career and therefore my daughters job/career is the 10th from the 5th=2nd.
I would say that not turning the chart is giving a positive answer which turned out to be negative or should I say not working out as the chart describes. The turned chart is a mixed bag...applying aspect between significators, the awful debility of the Sun and the square of the Moon to Saturn.
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Seiko



Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 363
Location: Latvia

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

taurus wrote:
Seiko
Sorry, I have to disagree with you there.
According whatever school of thought one adheres to then the 10th house of the chart is my job/career and therefore my daughters job/career is the 10th from the 5th=2nd.
I would say that not turning the chart is giving a positive answer which turned out to be negative or should I say not working out as the chart describes. The turned chart is a mixed bag...applying aspect between significators, the awful debility of the Sun and the square of the Moon to Saturn.


What makes you think the chart is giving a positive result? L1 cadent in the 12th, L10 cadent in the 6th. L2, her money, is combust in the 11th but that is not very important here.

So both principal significators cadent in the worst possible Houses of 12th and 6th, do not behold each other, how can it be positive?
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taurus



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 40

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seiko
Like I said it depends which school of thought one follows. Are we saying that because the principle rulers are accidentally in the worst possible houses and they do not behold each other then it is a negative outcome. Do we not take into account the strength of each planet and the translation of light of the Moon to Venus to Saturn. So the client asks the question and needs an answer. You see the dignities, you see the translation but hang on, the rulers are cadent and don't behold each other. It's nice to know the outcome after the fact but when you have a paying client then it's a different matter.

Thanks for your reply. Lala Happy
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Seiko



Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 363
Location: Latvia

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

taurus wrote:
Seiko
Like I said it depends which school of thought one follows. Are we saying that because the principle rulers are accidentally in the worst possible houses and they do not behold each other then it is a negative outcome. Do we not take into account the strength of each planet and the translation of light of the Moon to Venus to Saturn. So the client asks the question and needs an answer. You see the dignities, you see the translation but hang on, the rulers are cadent and don't behold each other. It's nice to know the outcome after the fact but when you have a paying client then it's a different matter.

Thanks for your reply. Lala Happy


If someone thinks both principal sigs cadent in the 12th and 6th can perform the matter (without strong mutual reception by sign) then that someone MOST DEFINITELY should not have paying clients.

Secondly, I did not say a word about the translation. If you have read CA, then you should know that the translation of light is legit if both sigs behold each other which is not the case here.

If you have all the answers, then do not post charts, what's the point of wasting your time?
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 582

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

taurus wrote:
Seiko
Like I said it depends which school of thought one follows. Are we saying that because the principle rulers are accidentally in the worst possible houses and they do not behold each other then it is a negative outcome. Do we not take into account the strength of each planet and the translation of light of the Moon to Venus to Saturn. So the client asks the question and needs an answer. You see the dignities, you see the translation but hang on, the rulers are cadent and don't behold each other. It's nice to know the outcome after the fact but when you have a paying client then it's a different matter.

Thanks for your reply. Lala Happy


Yeah, significators accidentally debilitated tend not to produce much unless helped through other means.

You're also ignoring the fact that Saturn is in first station, so irrespective of what is happening with Venus and the Moon, he cannot perfect the matter beyond what actually happened.
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taurus



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 40

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seiko

I am not wasting my time and very sorry for wasting your's. I certainly don't have all the answers and I would never be confident enough to say so.
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taurus



Joined: 22 Oct 2003
Posts: 40

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Konrad

Thanks for your reply. I was rather hoping that yourself and Seiko, or anyone here on the forum would take a different approach to the question by using the turned chart.

Thanks again
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taurus,

I realize we all start in horary somewhere but if you reflect upon the first part of your original post you can see why others may have not responded well to your query:

Taurus said:

Quote:
My daughter had recently attended an interview. On the 6th Feb (her interview day) I asked the question at 10:12, Asc=10-44 Taurus, coordinates are for Derby, 001W29'00" 52N55'00", will my daughter Amelia get the job, yes or no. She has already been informed of the outcome which was No! she didn't get the job.


Yes we could take the time to figure out if you meant AM or PM by the asc. you give! Note that you gave us a choice of AM or PM.

And Yes, we could find the location of the nation, state, or providence, etc., you are in by looking at the co-ordinates of the town of Derby.

Then someone may post the horary chart for everyone to see.

But berating one of our adept advocates of horary like Seiko because they might have wanted you to be less vague about this horary and wanted you to show some horary scholarship is Not winning points with the Forum membership! Mad

Could you, Taurus, give the accurate time and the exact location, posting the date would be nice too! Then I'll put a link to the map/chart and we can all look at the turned wheel!

Clinton Garrett Soule
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