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Kepler key for primary directions
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Martine



Joined: 03 May 2009
Posts: 70
Location: France

Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:28 pm    Post subject: Kepler key for primary directions Reply with quote

Hello

I have been looking to the primary directions for the death of Robert Boulin, a French politician said to have died by suicide (drowning). His daughter claims he was murdered. He was born on 20th July 1920 at 23:00 (UT + 1h) in Villandraut (France) 44N27 0W22. He died on 29th October 1979.

Using zodiacal Placidus semi-arc directions, with latitude, I find this direction, with Janus 4.3 software :

- Dexter square Mars direct Part of Hyleg - 18 september 1979 with Ptolemy key but 20 October 1979 with Kepler key.

I would like to know what is the rate of this Kepler key, and if you have any experience in using it. I did not find it in Martin Gansten's book. In the above mentioned case, it seems more precise, but the birth time is obviously rounded off, so it may be just a coincidence.

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astroart



Joined: 08 Mar 2009
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Location: Varna, Bulgaria

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Αccording to some authors(Heinrich Kündig, Astrologische Prognose, Zürich, 1955) Kepler used a key which is known as “a true day”: for the day of birth should be calculate how many degrees in R.A.(right ascension)the Sun passes from the lower culmination of the birth’s day to the lower culmination of the next day.The difference is Kepler’s key, which corresponds to one year of life.This key is used by Simmonite(W.J.Simmonite, Complete Arcana of Astral Philosophy or the celestial philosopher, London,1890).But it should be noted something very important: Kepler’s system of directions differs substantially from traditional primary directions.
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Martin Gansten
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Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: Kepler key for primary directions Reply with quote

Martine wrote:
I would like to know what is the rate of this Kepler key, and if you have any experience in using it. I did not find it in Martin Gansten's book.

It is discussed on p. 80, endnote 2. Smile
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Martine



Joined: 03 May 2009
Posts: 70
Location: France

Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Astroart and Martin for your answers.

According to Martin Gansten's book, Kepler's key is in fact the key of Brahe, which is explained p. 74.

This is calculated as described by Astroart : the difference in right ascension is taken between the true midnight preceding birth and the true midnight following birth. This is then equated with a year of life. It can be used with any system of directions, so there is no need to apply Kepler's system.

This key seems the most precise and from this it appears that Robert Boulin's birthtime may be nearly right, according to the direction I mentioned before.

At last, I am beginning to be able to use the primary directions !

Very Happy

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dr. farr



Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 276
Location: los angeles, california usa

Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Robert Boulin mystery (was it suicide or was it murder?) piqued my curiosity; there is an extensive entry in Wikipedia covering his life and especially the circumstances and controversies surrounding his death. I subjected his natal chart to several simple methods I use, to see if cosmic testimony favored murder or suicide. I used arabic parts (part of murder, part of death, part of suicide...and their significators), simple 1 yr = 1 degree symbolic progressions, and Pauline year-month-day profection, and obtained highly suggestive testimony favoring one "cause of death" over the other. If Martine is interested in my results please let me know here on the forum and I'll post them (I don't want to take up space on the forum if there is no interest in these findings)
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Eddy



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 922
Location: Netherlands

Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I've understood Kepler used the secondary directions/1 day = 1year formula and the Moon and angles moving with the same speed as the Sun. A sort of solar arcs avant la lettre.

Why would he then have used the Sun's Right Ascension movement of the day of birth as a key? Did he perhaps use RA positions for all planets? Or does this date from an earlier period in which he used the classical method of primary directions and was he in that period inspired by Brahe? Perhaps the Kepler key would then rather be 'Braheian' from origin than 'Keplerian'.
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Martine



Joined: 03 May 2009
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Location: France

Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Dr. Farr

Quote:
If Martine is interested in my results please let me know here on the forum and I'll post them (I don't want to take up space on the forum if there is no interest in these findings)


Yes I am interested and another member of this list sent me a private mail asking for details. This case is actual because R. Boulin's daughter is trying to reopen the case, in view of new testimonies.

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Martine



Joined: 03 May 2009
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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Eddy


Quote:
Perhaps the Kepler key would then rather be 'Braheian' from origin than 'Keplerian'.


Yes, that is what is written in Martin Gansten's book, page 80, note 2. Kepler was a pupil of Brahe. It seems that Brahe was the real author of this key, although one can never be sure, the idea could be still older.

I don't know about Kepler's use of secondary directions. Using this key in primary directions seems logical.

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Eddy



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Martine,

With this website http://www.ephemeris.com/ you can also calculate the Right Ascension positions.

This is what I got for Boulin:

Date/Time: 1920.07.20 00:00:00 UTC (GMT - Delta T), JD = 2422525.500000
Sidereal Time: 19:49:52

Planet Longitude Latitude Right Asc. Declination
Sun 26 Cnc 57'11" - 0°00'00" 07:56:00 20°46'27"

and

Date/Time: 1920.07.21 00:00:00 UTC (GMT - Delta T), JD = 2422526.500000
Sidereal Time: 19:53:49

Planet Longitude Latitude Right Asc. Declination
Sun 27 Cnc 54'28" - 0°00'00" 08:00:00 20°35'14"

In astronomy RA is expressed in hours and minutes, converting the result, difference exactly 4 minutes 0 seconds, gives exactly 1°00'

This is by coincidence exactly the same as the Ptolemy key of 1°RA = 1 year. I don't know what the software was 'thinking' but I'd believe that in this case the results should be the same. I wonder why the Janus program gives one month difference.

By the way most views on primary directions seem to be that a (close to) exact date for the direction to take place is not necessary. Perhaps other methods can support the direction. (The secondary directed Sun comes close to the Descendant and the transiting Saturn also comes close to the Descendant. The primary directed Ascendant is close to square to natal Ascendant and I see some semi-squares. But these methods are not traditional, it is how I would look at it.)

In her new article mentioned in the 'News...' section in the forum, Margherita mentions that the primary directions are combined with profections and solar returns. Perhaps others who know more about these techniques can see more signs on Boulin's death.
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margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eddy wrote:


In her new article mentioned in the 'News...' section in the forum, Margherita mentions that the primary directions are combined with profections and solar returns. Perhaps others who know more about these techniques can see more signs on Boulin's death.


At least, in CieloeTerra they teach like that.
They give great importance to directions (but they use Placidean under the pole, not the semiarc) but then they combine with Solar return and profection of the year.

In practice they cast the solar return and then notice on it the profections of relevant places, (for example profections of MC for career), the profection of the Ascendant and natal position of planets.

And then they judge the quality of the year. But I don't believe we can see from it if it was a case of suicide or murder.

I know because in my course we saw a similar case.

margherita
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Eddy



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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gjiada wrote:
And then they judge the quality of the year. But I don't believe we can see from it if it was a case of suicide or murder.

What about the Moon Mars conjunction in the solar return preceding his death? Moon is close to natal IC and square to the natal Asc/Desc axis. According to which house system one uses the conjunction is either in XI (abandoned by friends?) or in XII (secret political enemies?). But in most systems around cusp XII. The mysterious circumstances and possible death by barbiturates (Wikipedia) could be signified by Neptune opposite Mars in this return. Indeed difficult, it could be leading to either self-destruction in the form of suicide or to murder.

MC 4°33'Aries
Asc. 27°38' Cancer

Date/Time: 1979.07.21 04:14:00 UTC
Planet Longitude
Sun 27 Cnc 49'42"
Moon 25 Gem 05'13"
Mercury 14 Leo 01'59"R
Venus 18 Cnc 07'29"
Mars 17 Gem 34'22"
Jupiter 14 Leo 58'57"
Saturn 11 Vir 11'54"
Moon's Node 09 Vir 12'54"R

I notice I'm leaving the original intention of this thread, I'm sorry, this happens more often.

The thing I wanted to say that I think ik can answer my mentioned key problem myself:
Quote:
In astronomy RA is expressed in hours and minutes, converting the result, difference exactly 4 minutes 0 seconds, gives exactly 1°00'

This is by coincidence exactly the same as the Ptolemy key of 1°RA = 1 year. I don't know what the software was 'thinking' but I'd believe that in this case the results should be the same. I wonder why the Janus program gives one month difference.
The difference is about a month later than with Ptolemy key. If we take the age as being about 60 years, 1 month = 1/12th of a year and 1/720th of 60 years. With a Ptolemy key of 4minutes = 240seconds per year this would give a difference of 240/720 = 0.333 seconds later for the Kepler key. As the www.ephemeris.com calculator is exact to the second the ca. 0.3 second is too small and rounded off to the 0 and therefore coincides with the Ptolemy key.
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margherita



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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eddy wrote:
Gjiada wrote:
And then they judge the quality of the year. But I don't believe we can see from it if it was a case of suicide or murder.

What about the Moon Mars conjunction in the solar return preceding his death? Moon is close to natal IC and square to the natal Asc/Desc axis.


it could be for sure.
The following is from Andrea Argoli "De diebus criticis et aegrorum decubitu" from which I translated from Latin with the help of my friend a chapter:

I love to quote myself Smile

http://heavenastrolabe.net/andrea-argolion-the-good-and-bad-health-of-the-year-according-the-solar-return-of-the-year/

"In the Return, the Lights, the Ascendant of the Return & the radix, & their rulers, as the lord of the year and the divisor are with fortunes or with the rays of fortunes free from malefics or in place of benefics in the radix, or the fortunes in the place of the Lights, or of the radix Ascendant: they promise an excellent health for the body.

But if they are afflicted by malefics, or their rays, or in the place of malefics in the geniture, or malefics are in the place of the Lights, it’s evident, or of the Ascendant, they foretell illness and other misfortunes, about which we like to list some aphorisms taken into great consideration between Ancients."



But which kind of disgrace?
For example in the case of suicide/murder I saw in my astrology class, we choose about a murder or a suicide following native's natal chart, better said, his "qualities of soul."

margherita
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Eddy



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gjiada wrote:
But which kind of disgrace?
For example in the case of suicide/murder I saw in my astrology class, we choose about a murder or a suicide following native's natal chart, better said, his "qualities of soul."
I assume that in such cases (like Boulin's) it is extra difficult to find in the charts if one is to speak of murder or suicide, because sometimes there's a thin line of being murdered or being driven to suicide.
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astroart



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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the birth time is 5 minutes earlier or 22:55 and if we use Placidus zodiacal primary directions with latitide of aspects according to Blanchinus - Gaurico - Argoli with Naibod key- the result will be:
on 30th October 1979 -converse direction of Moon to square of Saturn.

Moon is in 7th house in night birth-hyleg
Saturn is in 6th house, ruler of 12th house-anaereta
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margherita



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Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eddy wrote:
I assume that in such cases (like Boulin's) it is extra difficult to find in the charts if one is to speak of murder or suicide, because sometimes there's a thin line of being murdered or being driven to suicide.


Well, sometimes Smile

Last week in the first pages of our newspapers, tv, talk shows we had the case of Piero Marrazzo, former governor of my region.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/transsexual-blackmail-plot-forces-governor-of-lazio-to-step-down-1809211.html

He was blackmailed because surprised with some transgenders (in practice - everybody understood here- a political plot, if you think that one of the editors who should buy the video with Marrazzo and the transexual is our Prime Minister, his political opponent.)

So Marrazzo resigned covered with shame and now he is in a monastery: in this case a suicide would be caused by the ones who organised all this.


But in the case I saw in my course, we were talking about Roberto Calvi,


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Calvi

the famous Italian banker was found hanged in London, under Black Friars bridge; if you read Wikipedia biography, hardly you can say it was an act of desperation.

this was what I exactly meant,

margherita
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