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Valens: Schmidt, Riley and Gehrz
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Martin Gansten

Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Posts: 1273
Location: Malmö, Sweden

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb wrote:
I've been wondering whether the word translated as 'equinox' could have an alternative meaning which might affect the translation of that passage. If it could then it's important to know this, even if it is a controversial view.

An important point to remember here is that a modern language like English has other languages from which scientific and other technical terms can be drawn (such as equinox, from Latin) or neologisms coined (such as television, from Greek and Latin). In a classical language like Greek, technical terms were typically constructed using everyday words in the common language -- in this case, ἰσημερινός, which is properly an adjective made up of the words for 'equal' and 'day' and the dictionary meaning of which is 'equinoctial'. (In Valens' text it is given in the genitive because it is preceded by the preposition μέχρι, 'up to', which takes the genitive.)
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Joined: 10 Mar 2008
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Location: Rome, Italy

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Meaning-Based Translation and more! Reply with quote

agehrz wrote:

A Tiny Explanation: (it has to do with the grammatical gender and the Genitive ending of the word "iseimerinos", which could be said to mean "Equinox", but could also be said to simply mean "to be divided into exactly two parts. As is the day of the Equinox = half day, half night. To be continued....)

I can't read Greek Sad but I have Bezza translation of this page.
It seems to me that Valens mentions here 3 parts of Aries, not two halves.

At this line he (Bezza) puts a nice note " missing, see Kroll" and then integrates (in note) on the base of Hephaistio and Ptolemy:

Now the sign of Aries as a whole, because it marks the equinox, is characterized by thunder or hail, but, taken part by part, through the variation in degree that is due to the special quality of the fixed stars, its leading portion is rainy and windy, its middle temperate, and the following part hot and pestilential. Its northern parts are hot and destructive, its southern frosty and chilly.

In every case, interesting method of translating. I understand better from your explanation

Traditional astrology at
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Joined: 30 Jan 2012
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Location: portland, Oregon

Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:44 pm    Post subject: A response Reply with quote

Hey Everyone!

Here is a video response to the Aries question.


Andrea (Gehrz)
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Location: England

Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrea's video (see link in her above post) gives a wonderful response to the questions raised in this thread about her translation of the Aries passage.

There is a new thread that kicks off with this video link so since this thread has rambled a bit I suggest that any questions or comments that relate directly to the points she covers in her video are added there. I'll link it through to this so that new readers can come here for background info:

Gehrz responds to The Aries Question

I can only express my admiration for such a clear and thorough explanation!

(I am going to lock this thread for 2 days to avoid the topic points getting split - if anyone wants to comment here on other points, you will be able to do that shortly)
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