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Football December 2011
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GB



Joined: 03 Oct 2008
Posts: 266
Location: UK

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Andrew, that is very interesting. I already use the half-house planetary hours and agree that it seems to work better than the fixed length ones (although with Placidus houses, which I don't use for this type of work, they are the same).

The planetary hour 'on the change' is an interesting idea. Do you allow a period before and after the start of the match? I will experiment with this.

Food for thought Very Happy
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daz madrigal



Joined: 09 Jun 2006
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote




Spurs go into the match in an unusual situation, as they are currently ahead of Chelsea in the league but nevertheless Chelsea just the slightest of favourites despite playing away. L7 Saturn isn't as strong as previous matches whilst L1 Sun has moved away from the later degrees of Sag and into disciplined Capricorn so it should be all hands to the pump tonight!

Another tight match but I expect Chelsea to just shade it in the end.
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Andrew Bevan



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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'll go for the draw then. The game starts in the Hour of Mars and the Sun, L1, and Mars, LHr, are in the same triplicity. Jupiter rules the ascendant by triplicity and is located on the 10th.

So let's check it out! Smile

PS. The chart shows POF by night. Not reversing the formula, POF is 22CN46.
So LHr would be in the same sign as POS (Spirit). I don't know whether we should include an observation on this.
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GB



Joined: 03 Oct 2008
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good work Andrew Thumbs up

There are some interesting games on Monday and Tuesday. I think it's time I made a few predictions Smile
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Andrew Bevan



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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spurs - Chelsea 1-1!

I think it is always good to quote the result when the game is up. Smile
Now I never tried using the angular planet and it's relationship to the sign on the ascendant before in passing judgement on the outfall of a football match. I.e. in this case Jupiter was angular, ruled the ascendant by triplicity and may have given testimony to the draw..

Still, we will have to try it out again. I do believe there may be a strike on in the Premier League during Xmas. I am not sure what it is about, but read a headline about it in the news.
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Janis Valkovskis



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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Now I never tried using the angular planet and it's relationship to the sign on the ascendant before in passing judgement on the outfall of a football match. I.e. in this case Jupiter was angular, ruled the ascendant by triplicity and may have given testimony to the draw..


Well done, Andrew. Thumbs up It is what I have been experimenting for a few last months and it seems to be working pretty well.

I use the sigs according to colours (Saturn for black, Jupiter blue, Mars red, Sun orange, Venus light blue, etc. with slight modifications) and see which dignity the planet has on ASC and whether it beholds ASC or not.
If I see that the planet rules ASC by triplicity, is in the same triplicity as the ruler of ASC (except in the same sign) or casts its trine to ASC (whole-sign) draw is a good option, unless there are some strong other testimonies, such as an angular sig or a close Moon's aspect to the sig or some other.
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Andrew Bevan



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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a quiet moment now just before Xmas, so here is a game for Boxing day:

Stoke - Villa, 19.45 GMT
Odds: 1,90 3,25 4,10
Asc 18LE00 MC 1TA05 Moon 1AQ25 POF 14VI45
Day Moon , Hour Moon - not radical
This chart is interesting because Jupiter is on the MC and rules the ascendant by triplicity as in the previous game between Spurs and Chelsea. Obviously, this repeats itself at about the same time every day at the moment, and can therefore not be regarded as a major testimony. The lack of radicality could move the result away from the favourite, but it doesn't give any indication of how far away. Saturn L7 is in mr with Venus L10, advantage Villa yet this could also be reckoned as a minor testimony.

In the Championship there is also an interesting game at 17.30 GMT:
Birmingham - West Ham, 17.30 GMT
Odds: 2,45 3,25 2,70
Asc 24CN05 MC 25PI06 Moon 0AQ09 POF 19LE39
Day Monday, Hour Mercury - not radical
Mercury corrupts the Moon - mischief! Moon, L1, is in the 7th but applies in a square through signs of short ascension to Jupiter, who is both L10 and has dignities on the 1st. And then I feel I want to give priority to Mercury, who is L4, and in the degree of the nodes - does this bury the result or give favour to the guests? Confused

At this point in time I feel like Villa beating Stoke and a draw between B'ham and W'ham - but testimonies could have been clearer.
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daz madrigal



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Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

L1 Sun is on a strong degree but then so was Chelsea a few days ago and they only managed a draw with very similar planetary positions. It could be a draw but as Andrew has gone for Villa I'll go for Stoke by a narrow margin. Birmingham are 11/10 favourites to win in the other match but L7 remains in exaltation in reception to venus and venus is in 7th so I fancy West Ham but maybe only a draw for them.

Stoke win.

Birmingham/W.Ham draw.
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GB



Joined: 03 Oct 2008
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Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the Stoke v Aston Villa match you are both avoiding the draw! Given the similarity to the Tottenham v Chelsea match and the non-radical chart, I'm going for the draw.

Of the 3pm matches, Sunderland v Everton looks interesting. Using Placidus planetary hours the hour changes at 3pm, so Andrews 'changing of the guard' might be relevant (although I know you use Regiomontanus for this, Andrew). We also have the ascendant ruler by triplicity (Saturn) in a close trine to the ascendant. Finally, L7 (Jupiter) is stronger than L1 (Mercury), helping the away underdogs. So again I'm going for the draw.
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Andrew Bevan



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Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In the Stoke v Aston Villa match you are both avoiding the draw! Given the similarity to the Tottenham v Chelsea match and the non-radical chart, I'm going for the draw.

In the Spurs-Chelsea game the chart was radical. So in my instance I muve the result further away. One of us will get it right, but I think that some charts are for observation while others are more suited for stronghardy prediction.


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Janis Valkovskis



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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope you all had a blissful Christmas. Very Happy

As regards the game Stoke - Aston Villa, I do not feel confindent to judge. Too much contradictory factors to be taken into account.

First, the chart is not radical which in general favours the underdog. Second, the day and the hour is ruled by the Moon which is out of sect and VOC (for soccer the Moon is VOC if there is no aspects within 5 degrees). Third, I notice that the luminaries both are under rulership of Saturn who is pretty close to IC. This also does not bode well for the fave.
However, I have observed that home teams are used to doing pretty well if the day and the hour is ruled by the same planet (it's a testimony for Stoke).

Had there been a team wearing black or white/black or even a dark shade of any colour, we would definitely have had a winner on account of the position of Saturn.
This I found as a reliable regularity if both luminaries are ruled by the same planet, that team whose kit matches with the colours of the dispositor of the luminaries wins (even ranked underdogs with long odds), perhaps there must be exceptions but have not seen yet.

Angularity of the planet who is the sig agreeably to the colours (in particular if it is also in its proper sect) is one of the strongest testimonies to win, unless the planet is seriously afflicted. Here we have 2 angular planets - Jupiter and Saturn. Jupiter rules the ASC by triplicity and Saturn is a participating member of the Fiery Triplicity who, however, does not bode well here (detriment and fall). Considering that Saturn cannot be considered as a fully - fledged angular member since it falls away from Scorpio IC. This in accordance with my experience is very likely to result in draw.

Let's look for reinforcing factors. First, we look for the place of the lord of time (Sun in a day chart and Moon in a night chart) and see which planets receive the luminary (nothing less than triplicity). Here, we see that Saturn receives the Moon by house and Mercury by triplicity (both planets by whole sign aspects behold the Moon in Aquarius). Such position of the Moon would have been destructive for a team had it played in a bright yellow, gold or orange kit. Mars is inconjunct the luminary of time which does not look good from winning prospects if there is no huge difference in odds (draw would be a good achievement). Second, we look for the position of the lord of hour and see which planets receive it. Here the Moon plays this role as well. Third, we look for POF in which sign it is (who disposes it by house or exaltation). Forth, we look for dispositor of POF in which sign it is. Note that the strongest of the mentioned is the placement of the lord of time, then the lord of the hour and so on.

From it follows that Saturn receives the Moon (luminary of the time and ruler of day and hour) by house. Mercury receives the Moon by triplicity, POF by house, Jupiter receives only the dispositor of POF by house.
We can expect that the teams wearing Saturnian, Mercurian and Jupiterian collours will play well.

Then we look at the Moon's aspects. Unless the Moon aspects the significator, Moon's aspects quite often will show how many goals the team who is stronger according to the testimonies above (first angularity, then the placement of the luminary of the time, and so on) will score. If there are debilities to the sig, or the testimonies are contradictory we can expect that the other team will score as well). Here the Moon is VOC, so the number of the goals can be roughly counted only from the reinforcements and debilities of the sigs.

Our sigs agreeably to colours are Mars in Virgo for Stoke (assuming that they would wear their home kit which is red with white stripes), and Moon in Aquarius for Aston Villa (white shirt with light pale squares). As both are out of sect (under the horizon), there is no difference at all. Comparing the strenght of the sigs' dispositors is not a reliable testimony. So draw can be expected.

However, I remember that Andrew had noted that Birmingham (Aston Villa is a club from Birmingham) is ruled by Virgo which is under rulership of Mercury. Mercury is dispositor of POF and conjunct North Node. I would like to try it and go for Aston Villa.

If we use Frawley's method - fave on ASC, then the underdog's position is slightly better on account of exaltation and angularity of Saturn, L7. But what to do with Jupiter, straight on MC which should be a strong testimony for the fave, at least according to him?

I personally would go for Aston Villa on account of Mercury who is said to rule Birmingham.

Greetings
Janis
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Andrew Bevan



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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Janis,
Quote:
As regards the game Stoke - Aston Villa, I do not feel confindent to judge. Too much contradictory factors to be taken into account.
My feelings, too...

Quote:
First, the chart is not radical which in general favours the underdog. Second, the day and the hour is ruled by the Moon which is out of sect and VOC (for soccer the Moon is VOC if there is no aspects within 5 degrees).
This is interesting, but would it be more appropriate to use the term 'feral' than VOC, meaning running free or wild?

Quote:
However, I have observed that home teams are used to doing pretty well if the day and the hour is ruled by the same planet (it's a testimony for Stoke).
Interesting, again. I would feel more so if the planet was a natural significator of the team playing. You give an example where you say the the B'ham teams may have advantage when playing under Mercury. I would just like to comment, my gut feeling would tell me that Merury in positive signs were more representative of Villa, while negative signs were more representative of the Blues. Yet with Villa I have noted an influence of Sagittarius, Aries and Jupiter.

Quote:
Mars is inconjunct the luminary of time which does not look good from winning prospects if there is no huge difference in odds (draw would be a good achievement).
This is another important observation, but where I think the inconjunction opens for suprises, imbalance and generally the 'outside' result. I am still not into colours and am glad other members are looking into these details. Smile
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Janis Valkovskis



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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As regards the rule that the team whose kit agrees with the colors of the dispositor of the luminaries will win, see Bolton - Newcastle. Newcastle is the only team in Premier League playing in black (Saturn) at 15 GMT.
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GB



Joined: 03 Oct 2008
Posts: 266
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sunderland 1 - 1 Everton Very Happy

There were a number of other draws in the15:00 Premier League matches this afternoon. In addition to Sunderland we had:

Liverpool 1 - 1 Blackburn

West Brom 0 - 0 Man City Surprised

and in the 13:00 match Chelsea 1 - 1 Fulham

Something about the day?
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Andrew Bevan



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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations with the Sunderland - Everton game, GB! Thumbs up
We got B'ham - West Ham 1-1 correct, too! Wink

Throughout the British leagues that all the early games ended with a draw. It was quite remarkable. There may have been 5 or 6 games (?), except one that I noticed. I think it was the 13.00 GMT game between Derby and Leeds that ended 1-0.
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