Birthchart of serial killers. Anybody with similar findings? 1 by mercquarian So I checked the list on astrodatabank.com of serial killers to see if there was a unifying factor they'd all share. And based on this, I seem to have found something. What they all have in common is having either 1 or more of the 7 classical planets or Ascendant placed in a sign that has either exaltation or domicile in the 2 malefics, Mars and Saturn. So Aries, Libra, Scorpio, Capricorn and Aquarius. I've read they're supposed to be the violent signs also. It did not matter which particular planet occupied a violent sign, or certain aspects they had to have, or house placements, or sect placement. Am I missing anything else? I haven't checked for fixed stars, being in one of those signs seemed to be enough. All that mattered was having any classical planet in a violent sign. Also, I might get some disagreement for this, because I have before, but 2 charts were receiving from an outer planet in a violent sign to their malefic planet. Perhaps the rest of their chart influenced the differences of their murders. I don't believe everybody who has planets in a violent sign are serial killers, but so far from my findings, every proven serial killer had a planet in a violent sign. Here's the list I've compiled, and the link to the page I looked through: http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cat ... ide_serial Yes http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Albrecht%2C_Susanne http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Alegre%2C_Patrice http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Allitt%2C_Beverly http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Assis%2C_Francisco http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bar ... _Nathaniel http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Baranton%2C_Bernard http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Barrow%2C_Clyde http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bartsch%2C_Jurgen http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Berdella%2C_Bob http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Berkowitz%2C_David http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bernardo%2C_Paul http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Besnard%2C_Marie http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bonin%2C_William http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bonney%2C_William http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bosket%2C_Willie http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bouterse%2C_Desi http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bra ... an_Stewart http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Brusca%2C_Giovanni http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Buch%2C_Walter http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Buell%2C_Robert http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bundy%2C_Ted http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Buono%2C_Angelo_A. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cardon%2C_Lionel http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Carlos_the_Jackal http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Carpenter%2C_David http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Carson%2C_Kit http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Car ... C_Clarence http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Chapman%2C_Irving http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cia ... C_Leonarda http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Clark%2C_David_R. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cor ... ean_Arnold http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cos ... ne_Charles http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Costa%2C_Tony http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cot ... 2C_Richard http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cou ... _Veronique http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cunanan%2C_Andrew http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Dahmer%2C_Jeffrey http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/DeSalvo%2C_Albert http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Del ... C_Stephane http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Denke%2C_Carl http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Diamond%2C_Legs http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Dillon%2C_Thomas http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Dutroux%2C_Marc http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Fer ... John_Errol http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Furlan%2C_Marco http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gacy%2C_John_Wayne http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gallego%2C_Charlene http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bia ... _Kenneth_A. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bilancia%2C_Donato http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cardon%2C_Joel http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Col ... ohn_Norman http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Col ... tricia_Ann http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gallego%2C_Gerald http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gamper%2C_Ferdinand http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gaynor%2C_Alfred http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gein%2C_Edward http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Georges%2C_Guy http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gilbert%2C_Kristen http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Girard%2C_Henri http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Giumpier%2C_Daniel http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Goode%2C_Arthur http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Greco%2C_Michele http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gut ... _Dominique http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Haarmann%2C_Fritz http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Harvey%2C_Donald http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Heirens%2C_William http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Hindley%2C_Myra http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ivan_The_Terrible http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Jackson%2C_Arthur http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/James%2C_Jesse http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Joubert%2C_John http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kac ... C_Theodore http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kalhauser%2C_John http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kearney%2C_Patrick http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kemper%2C_Edmund http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kimes%2C_Kenneth_Jr. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kinman%2C_Donald http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kniesek%2C_Werner http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kno ... s%2C_Roger http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Koernig%2C_Robert http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kraft%2C_Randy http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kurten%2C_Peter http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Lan ... nri_Desire http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Lastennet%2C_Claude http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Leahy%2C_Paul http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Lemons%2C_Marvin http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Louis%2C_Emile http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Manson%2C_Charles http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Mat ... an-Thierry http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Milat%2C_Ivan http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Mon ... C_Dorothea http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Muh ... John_Allen http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Mullin%2C_Herbert http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Myrtel%2C_Hera http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Nilsen%2C_Dennis http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Olson%2C_Clifford http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Pacciani%2C_Pietro http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Paulin%2C_Thierry http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Pedron%2C_Gustave http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Petiot%2C_Marcel http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Pignon%2C_Gerard http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Pol_Pot http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ponte%2C_Kenneth http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Profeta%2C_Michele http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Puch%2C_Carlos http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Quaglini%2C_Milena http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rader%2C_Dennis_L. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Raffin%2C_Pascal http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ramirez%2C_Rafael http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ramirez%2C_Ricardo http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ric ... of_England http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rifkin%2C_Joel http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rom ... ean-Claude http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rudolph%2C_Eric http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Sampson%2C_Gary_Lee http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Sanchez%2C_Remedios http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Sch ... _Ferdinand http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Seefeld%2C_Adolf http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Shawcross%2C_Arthur http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Shipman%2C_Harold http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Singleton%2C_Larry http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Smi ... ar_Herbert http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Smith%2C_Tommy http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Sobhraj%2C_Charles http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Solanas%2C_Valerie http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Sta ... 2C_Charles http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Stayner%2C_Cary http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ste ... Gianfranco http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Succo%2C_Roberto http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Sutcliffe%2C_Peter http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Swanenbrug%2C_Maria http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Swango%2C_Michael http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Taylor%2C_Pat http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Tingler%2C_Richard http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Tissier%2C_Patrick http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Tro ... n-Baptiste http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Unr ... ard_Barton http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Vacher%2C_Joseph http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Weber%2C_Jeanne http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Weidmann%2C_Eugen http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Welty%2C_Judias http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/West%2C_Frederick http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Whitney%2C_Dennis http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Williams%2C_Wayne_B. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Woo ... dall_Brent http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ensslin%2C_Gudrun Yes(Malefic receiving an outer planet) http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Eberling%2C_Richard http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ald ... l%2C_Sarah No(Suspect charts) http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Heath%2C_Neville[b](Time of birth might be wrong, Moon could be in Capricorn)[/b] http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Fug ... aril_Ann[b](seemed to be influenced by boyfriend, who had a few personal planets in violent signs)[/b] http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Baa ... _Andreas[b](Again, might have been influenced into this rather than own initiative)[/b] http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kevorkian%2C_Jack[b](Is a doctor who is pro-euthanasia, but did have planets in violent signs)[/b] http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Hat ... harles_Ray (Time of birth might be wrong, could be Scorpio Moon) Last edited by mercquarian on Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:52 pm, edited 5 times in total. Quote Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:18 pm
2 by Stellarium "So I checked the list on astrodatabank.com of serial killers to see if there was one unifying factor they'd all share. And based on this, I seem to have found something. What they all have in common is having either 1 or more of the 7 classical planets or Ascendant placed in a sign that has either exaltation or domicile in the 2 malefics, Mars and Saturn. So Aries, Libra, Scorpio, Capricorn and Aquarius. I've read they're supposed to be the violent signs also." This is far too general. Millions of people who aren't serial killers would satisy those conditions. A few years ago I looked at the natal chart of some killers (not serial killers specifically, although there were some in the group) and found a large number to: Have the Lot of Spirit in Aries, Scorpio (Domiciles of Mars) or in the same sign as Mars The first AA rated chart of a serial killer on your list is Patrice Alegre and she has her Lot of Spirit in Aries with Saturn and the Moon. It may also be worth examining the Moon and Mercury and their rulers (ruled/tightly aspected by malefics?). A control group of non-serial killers/violent people could also be collated and a statistical analysis to test your theory (e.g Chi-squared test). Quote Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:59 pm
3 by mercquarian @Stellarium I posted: I don't believe everybody who has planets in a violent sign are serial killers, but so far from my findings, every (true)serial killer had a planet in a violent sign. I have Sun in Cap, Moon in Aries, Mars in Aries, Venus in Cap and Saturn in Cap, Mercury in Aquarius. I cringe when watching violent, bloody scenes from movies. I'll check for my lot of spirit. It would be way more general if I included all 12 signs into my criteria. I'll take your approach into consideration for my search in the future. Also, I'm not looking for majority, I'm looking for a clear-cut similarity. Last edited by mercquarian on Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total. Quote Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:03 pm
4 by mercquarian I already checked one, didn't seem to match. Edward Gein, who by my hypothesis, fulfills my criteria with Venus in Libra. He has part of spirit in Libra. Anyways, take a look at what he was known for. My guess would be that Venus in Libra in the 5th house trine Pluto in the 1st house would be why he dressed up in women's skin for fun. He also shot a woman just to fulfill that desire. Saturn square Moon for his controlling mother, also Saturn in the 10th house of mother. My guess is that Venus in Libra gave him the initiative to commit these acts. Also it's out of sect. If he did not have this placement, maybe instead in a non-violent sign, this might have never happened. Quote Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:29 pm
Hmm. 5 by Dave I wonder how long the list of people who share the astrological traits you mention, but are not serial killers, would be? Seems to me that such criteria have little practical application. To find a serial killer (problem being we don't examine the horoscopes of but a small percentage of all births; serial killers tend to be discovered after the fact) we will have to delve deeper into the chart than a simple "statistical" approach can take us. Quote Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:44 am
Re: Hmm. 6 by mercquarian @Dave I wonder if we had a population of people with zero planets in any of those signs, would there be any murders? I believe it's all pretty much a choice, whether or not to act on these tendencies given by the violent signs. A person with placements in a violent sign could be feeling murderous his/her whole life, yet not act on it. Quote Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:39 am
7 by Stellarium mercquarian wrote:@Stellarium I posted: I don't believe everybody who has planets in a violent sign are serial killers, but so far from my findings, every (true)serial killer had a planet in a violent sign. I have Sun in Cap, Moon in Aries, Mars in Aries, Venus in Cap and Saturn in Cap, Mercury in Aquarius. I cringe when watching violent, bloody scenes from movies. I'll check for my lot of spirit. It would be way more general if I included all 12 signs into my criteria. I'll take your approach into consideration for my search in the future. Also, I'm not looking for majority, I'm looking for a clear-cut similarity. But so do millions of non-killers. For example, take the first 10 natal charts listed under "A" in the astrodatabank of long lived people with no violence noted in their biographies (http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cat ... han_80_yrs). Do any of these people have at least one traditional planet in a "violent sign"? Nicola Abbaganno: Yes Agnes Anne Abbot: Yes Giorgio Abbetti: Yes Jean Abrial: Yes Jean Absil: Yes Ansel Adams: Yes John Adams: Yes Samuel Adams: Yes Konrad Adenaur: Yes Felix Adler: Yes Most of the above have multiple planets in "violent signs". Quote Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:41 pm
8 by mercquarian @Stellarium I already pretty much explained in this thread that I think it's a choice to act on these murderous tendencies, and that many non-killers can have these placements. One can feel these tendencies, but never commit the act. I think these placements are more cautionary than rigid prediction. Sort of how a psychopath can adapt themselves into society and seem pretty normal. I formulate it like this: Not everybody who has one or more classical planets in violent signs are serial killers, but every serial killer has one or more classical planets in a violent sign. It's almost like this saying, "All compounds are molecules but not all molecules are compounds." Last edited by mercquarian on Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total. Quote Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:53 pm
Re: Hmm. 9 by Stellarium Dave wrote:I wonder how long the list of people who share the astrological traits you mention, but are not serial killers, would be? Seems to me that such criteria have little practical application. To find a serial killer (problem being we don't examine the horoscopes of but a small percentage of all births; serial killers tend to be discovered after the fact) we will have to delve deeper into the chart than a simple "statistical" approach can take us. The statistical approach would be to support a theory/hypothesis, not predict from a natal chart. Say for instance, I claim that people who have their lot of Spirit in a Mars-sign or with Mars are more inclined to violence than those who do not satisfy this condition. I develop a databse of 2 groups (violent and non-violent) and see if the theory is statistically significant. If it is, then then that can be considered one valid indicator. However, one indicator is not enough, so repeat the approach with other theories (e.g if the Moon is ruled/afflicted by a malefic). Quote Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:54 pm
10 by Stellarium mercquarian wrote:@Stellarium I already pretty much explained in this thread that I think it's a choice to act on these murderous tendencies, and that many non-killers can have these placements. One can feel these tendencies, but never commit the act. I think these placements are more cautionary than rigid prediction. I formulate it like this: Not everybody who has one or more classical planets in violent signs are serial killers, but every serial killer has one or more classical planets in a violent sign. It's almost like this saying, "All compounds are molecules but not all molecules are compounds." Moon and Mercury are said to be "significators of the soul" - basically the key behaviour indicators. I would include the Lot of Spirit. A more refined approach would look for malefic involvement with the "significators of the soul". Quote Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:00 pm
11 by OvalOwl I just did a quick look, read through a few profiles and looked at their charts. I'm not particularly well knowledgeable about this area, but I sort of noticed a trend. Using Lilly's method in Chapter CVIL "Of the Manners of the Native or Child" I looked into their significators. I noticed a lot of them had Mercury as co-significator to the planet in the ascendant (using whole signs). And usually, the Mercury was joined to a retrograde Jupiter in a weak position, and vice-versa for weak/retrograde Jupiter having Mercury as a co-significator. If not, then Saturn/Mars in the first or co-signifying. I also seen quite a few instances of the Moon being in Gemini or Sagittarius, and thus having a retrograde Jupiter or Mercury co-signifying. Of course that means nothing in and of itself. Countless people are born with the same aspects. Just thought I'd throw in my $0.02. -The Oval Owl Quote Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:11 am
12 by Tanit It seems impossible to me that all serial killers would have the same indicators as each other. They all have different motivating factors for their behavior. Serial killers who displayed similar behavior, had similar backgrounds, etc. might have a lot more in common astrologically. Why would a person like Susanne Albrecht, who grew up rich and became a tyrannical Marxist, behave the same way as someone like John Wayne Gacy, who grew up in poverty and was violently abused as a kid (and later became a sexual predator), for example? Quote Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:01 am