Birthchart of serial killers. Anybody with similar findings?

1
So I checked the list on astrodatabank.com of serial killers to see if there was a unifying factor they'd all share. And based on this, I seem to have found something. What they all have in common is having either 1 or more of the 7 classical planets or Ascendant placed in a sign that has either exaltation or domicile in the 2 malefics, Mars and Saturn. So Aries, Libra, Scorpio, Capricorn and Aquarius. I've read they're supposed to be the violent signs also. It did not matter which particular planet occupied a violent sign, or certain aspects they had to have, or house placements, or sect placement. Am I missing anything else? I haven't checked for fixed stars, being in one of those signs seemed to be enough. All that mattered was having any classical planet in a violent sign. Also, I might get some disagreement for this, because I have before, but 2 charts were receiving from an outer planet in a violent sign to their malefic planet. Perhaps the rest of their chart influenced the differences of their murders.

I don't believe everybody who has planets in a violent sign are serial killers, but so far from my findings, every proven serial killer had a planet in a violent sign.

Here's the list I've compiled, and the link to the page I looked through:

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cat ... ide_serial

Yes
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Albrecht%2C_Susanne
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Alegre%2C_Patrice
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Allitt%2C_Beverly
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Assis%2C_Francisco
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bar ... _Nathaniel
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Baranton%2C_Bernard
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Barrow%2C_Clyde
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bartsch%2C_Jurgen
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Berdella%2C_Bob
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Berkowitz%2C_David
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bernardo%2C_Paul
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Besnard%2C_Marie
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bonin%2C_William
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bonney%2C_William
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bosket%2C_Willie
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bouterse%2C_Desi
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bra ... an_Stewart
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Brusca%2C_Giovanni
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Buch%2C_Walter
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Buell%2C_Robert
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bundy%2C_Ted
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Buono%2C_Angelo_A.
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cardon%2C_Lionel
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Carlos_the_Jackal
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Carpenter%2C_David
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Carson%2C_Kit
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Car ... C_Clarence
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Chapman%2C_Irving
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cia ... C_Leonarda
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Clark%2C_David_R.
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cor ... ean_Arnold
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cos ... ne_Charles
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Costa%2C_Tony
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cot ... 2C_Richard
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cou ... _Veronique
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cunanan%2C_Andrew
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Dahmer%2C_Jeffrey
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/DeSalvo%2C_Albert
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Del ... C_Stephane
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Denke%2C_Carl
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Diamond%2C_Legs
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Dillon%2C_Thomas
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Dutroux%2C_Marc
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Fer ... John_Errol
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Furlan%2C_Marco
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gacy%2C_John_Wayne
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gallego%2C_Charlene
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bia ... _Kenneth_A.
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Bilancia%2C_Donato
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cardon%2C_Joel
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Col ... ohn_Norman
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Col ... tricia_Ann
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gallego%2C_Gerald
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gamper%2C_Ferdinand
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gaynor%2C_Alfred
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gein%2C_Edward
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Georges%2C_Guy
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gilbert%2C_Kristen
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Girard%2C_Henri
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Giumpier%2C_Daniel
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Goode%2C_Arthur
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Greco%2C_Michele
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Gut ... _Dominique
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Haarmann%2C_Fritz
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Harvey%2C_Donald
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Heirens%2C_William
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Hindley%2C_Myra
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ivan_The_Terrible
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Jackson%2C_Arthur
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/James%2C_Jesse
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Joubert%2C_John
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kac ... C_Theodore
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kalhauser%2C_John
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kearney%2C_Patrick
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kemper%2C_Edmund
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kimes%2C_Kenneth_Jr.
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kinman%2C_Donald
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kniesek%2C_Werner
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kno ... s%2C_Roger
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Koernig%2C_Robert
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kraft%2C_Randy
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kurten%2C_Peter
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Lan ... nri_Desire
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Lastennet%2C_Claude
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Leahy%2C_Paul
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Lemons%2C_Marvin
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Louis%2C_Emile
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Manson%2C_Charles
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Mat ... an-Thierry
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Milat%2C_Ivan
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Mon ... C_Dorothea
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Muh ... John_Allen
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Mullin%2C_Herbert
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Myrtel%2C_Hera
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Nilsen%2C_Dennis
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Olson%2C_Clifford
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Pacciani%2C_Pietro
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Paulin%2C_Thierry
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Pedron%2C_Gustave
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Petiot%2C_Marcel
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Pignon%2C_Gerard
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Pol_Pot
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ponte%2C_Kenneth
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Profeta%2C_Michele
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Puch%2C_Carlos
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Quaglini%2C_Milena
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rader%2C_Dennis_L.
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Raffin%2C_Pascal
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ramirez%2C_Rafael
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ramirez%2C_Ricardo
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ric ... of_England
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rifkin%2C_Joel
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rom ... ean-Claude
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Rudolph%2C_Eric
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Sampson%2C_Gary_Lee
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Sanchez%2C_Remedios
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Sch ... _Ferdinand
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Seefeld%2C_Adolf
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Shawcross%2C_Arthur
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Shipman%2C_Harold
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Singleton%2C_Larry
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Smi ... ar_Herbert
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Smith%2C_Tommy
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Sobhraj%2C_Charles
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Solanas%2C_Valerie
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Sta ... 2C_Charles
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Stayner%2C_Cary
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ste ... Gianfranco
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Succo%2C_Roberto
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Sutcliffe%2C_Peter
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Swanenbrug%2C_Maria
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Swango%2C_Michael
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Taylor%2C_Pat
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Tingler%2C_Richard
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Tissier%2C_Patrick
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Tro ... n-Baptiste
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Unr ... ard_Barton
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Vacher%2C_Joseph
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Weber%2C_Jeanne
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Weidmann%2C_Eugen
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Welty%2C_Judias
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/West%2C_Frederick
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Whitney%2C_Dennis
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Williams%2C_Wayne_B.
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Woo ... dall_Brent
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ensslin%2C_Gudrun

Yes(Malefic receiving an outer planet)
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Eberling%2C_Richard
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Ald ... l%2C_Sarah


No(Suspect charts)
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Heath%2C_Neville[b](Time of birth might be wrong, Moon could be in Capricorn)[/b]
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Fug ... aril_Ann[b](seemed to be influenced by boyfriend, who had a few personal planets in violent signs)[/b]
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Baa ... _Andreas[b](Again, might have been influenced into this rather than own initiative)[/b]
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kevorkian%2C_Jack[b](Is a doctor who is pro-euthanasia, but did have planets in violent signs)[/b]
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Hat ... harles_Ray (Time of birth might be wrong, could be Scorpio Moon)
Last edited by mercquarian on Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:52 pm, edited 5 times in total.

2
"So I checked the list on astrodatabank.com of serial killers to see if there was one unifying factor they'd all share. And based on this, I seem to have found something. What they all have in common is having either 1 or more of the 7 classical planets or Ascendant placed in a sign that has either exaltation or domicile in the 2 malefics, Mars and Saturn. So Aries, Libra, Scorpio, Capricorn and Aquarius. I've read they're supposed to be the violent signs also."

This is far too general. Millions of people who aren't serial killers would satisy those conditions.

A few years ago I looked at the natal chart of some killers (not serial killers specifically, although there were some in the group) and found a large number to:

Have the Lot of Spirit in Aries, Scorpio (Domiciles of Mars) or in the same sign as Mars

The first AA rated chart of a serial killer on your list is Patrice Alegre and she has her Lot of Spirit in Aries with Saturn and the Moon.

It may also be worth examining the Moon and Mercury and their rulers (ruled/tightly aspected by malefics?).

A control group of non-serial killers/violent people could also be collated and a statistical analysis to test your theory (e.g Chi-squared test).

3
@Stellarium

I posted:
I don't believe everybody who has planets in a violent sign are serial killers, but so far from my findings, every (true)serial killer had a planet in a violent sign.
I have Sun in Cap, Moon in Aries, Mars in Aries, Venus in Cap and Saturn in Cap, Mercury in Aquarius. I cringe when watching violent, bloody scenes from movies. I'll check for my lot of spirit.

It would be way more general if I included all 12 signs into my criteria.

I'll take your approach into consideration for my search in the future.

Also, I'm not looking for majority, I'm looking for a clear-cut similarity.
Last edited by mercquarian on Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

4
I already checked one, didn't seem to match.

Edward Gein, who by my hypothesis, fulfills my criteria with Venus in Libra. He has part of spirit in Libra. Anyways, take a look at what he was known for. My guess would be that Venus in Libra in the 5th house trine Pluto in the 1st house would be why he dressed up in women's skin for fun. He also shot a woman just to fulfill that desire. Saturn square Moon for his controlling mother, also Saturn in the 10th house of mother.

My guess is that Venus in Libra gave him the initiative to commit these acts. Also it's out of sect. If he did not have this placement, maybe instead in a non-violent sign, this might have never happened.

Hmm.

5
I wonder how long the list of people who share the astrological traits you mention, but are not serial killers, would be?

Seems to me that such criteria have little practical application. To find a serial killer (problem being we don't examine the horoscopes of but a small percentage of all births; serial killers tend to be discovered after the fact) we will have to delve deeper into the chart than a simple "statistical" approach can take us.

Re: Hmm.

6
@Dave

I wonder if we had a population of people with zero planets in any of those signs, would there be any murders?

I believe it's all pretty much a choice, whether or not to act on these tendencies given by the violent signs.

A person with placements in a violent sign could be feeling murderous his/her whole life, yet not act on it.

7
mercquarian wrote:@Stellarium

I posted:
I don't believe everybody who has planets in a violent sign are serial killers, but so far from my findings, every (true)serial killer had a planet in a violent sign.
I have Sun in Cap, Moon in Aries, Mars in Aries, Venus in Cap and Saturn in Cap, Mercury in Aquarius. I cringe when watching violent, bloody scenes from movies. I'll check for my lot of spirit.

It would be way more general if I included all 12 signs into my criteria.

I'll take your approach into consideration for my search in the future.

Also, I'm not looking for majority, I'm looking for a clear-cut similarity.
But so do millions of non-killers. For example, take the first 10 natal charts listed under "A" in the astrodatabank of long lived people with no violence noted in their biographies (http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cat ... han_80_yrs).

Do any of these people have at least one traditional planet in a "violent sign"?

Nicola Abbaganno: Yes
Agnes Anne Abbot: Yes
Giorgio Abbetti: Yes
Jean Abrial: Yes
Jean Absil: Yes
Ansel Adams: Yes
John Adams: Yes
Samuel Adams: Yes
Konrad Adenaur: Yes
Felix Adler: Yes

Most of the above have multiple planets in "violent signs".

8
@Stellarium

I already pretty much explained in this thread that I think it's a choice to act on these murderous tendencies, and that many non-killers can have these placements. One can feel these tendencies, but never commit the act. I think these placements are more cautionary than rigid prediction.

Sort of how a psychopath can adapt themselves into society and seem pretty normal.

I formulate it like this:

Not everybody who has one or more classical planets in violent signs are serial killers, but every serial killer has one or more classical planets in a violent sign.

It's almost like this saying, "All compounds are molecules but not all molecules are compounds."
Last edited by mercquarian on Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Hmm.

9
Dave wrote:I wonder how long the list of people who share the astrological traits you mention, but are not serial killers, would be?

Seems to me that such criteria have little practical application. To find a serial killer (problem being we don't examine the horoscopes of but a small percentage of all births; serial killers tend to be discovered after the fact) we will have to delve deeper into the chart than a simple "statistical" approach can take us.
The statistical approach would be to support a theory/hypothesis, not predict from a natal chart.

Say for instance, I claim that people who have their lot of Spirit in a Mars-sign or with Mars are more inclined to violence than those who do not satisfy this condition. I develop a databse of 2 groups (violent and non-violent) and see if the theory is statistically significant. If it is, then then that can be considered one valid indicator.

However, one indicator is not enough, so repeat the approach with other theories (e.g if the Moon is ruled/afflicted by a malefic).

10
mercquarian wrote:@Stellarium

I already pretty much explained in this thread that I think it's a choice to act on these murderous tendencies, and that many non-killers can have these placements. One can feel these tendencies, but never commit the act. I think these placements are more cautionary than rigid prediction.

I formulate it like this:

Not everybody who has one or more classical planets in violent signs are serial killers, but every serial killer has one or more classical planets in a violent sign.

It's almost like this saying, "All compounds are molecules but not all molecules are compounds."
Moon and Mercury are said to be "significators of the soul" - basically the key behaviour indicators. I would include the Lot of Spirit. A more refined approach would look for malefic involvement with the "significators of the soul".

11
I just did a quick look, read through a few profiles and looked at their charts. I'm not particularly well knowledgeable about this area, but I sort of noticed a trend.

Using Lilly's method in Chapter CVIL "Of the Manners of the Native or Child" I looked into their significators. I noticed a lot of them had Mercury as co-significator to the planet in the ascendant (using whole signs). And usually, the Mercury was joined to a retrograde Jupiter in a weak position, and vice-versa for weak/retrograde Jupiter having Mercury as a co-significator. If not, then Saturn/Mars in the first or co-signifying. I also seen quite a few instances of the Moon being in Gemini or Sagittarius, and thus having a retrograde Jupiter or Mercury co-signifying.

Of course that means nothing in and of itself. Countless people are born with the same aspects. Just thought I'd throw in my $0.02.
-The Oval Owl

12
It seems impossible to me that all serial killers would have the same indicators as each other. They all have different motivating factors for their behavior. Serial killers who displayed similar behavior, had similar backgrounds, etc. might have a lot more in common astrologically. Why would a person like Susanne Albrecht, who grew up rich and became a tyrannical Marxist, behave the same way as someone like John Wayne Gacy, who grew up in poverty and was violently abused as a kid (and later became a sexual predator), for example?