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Al H. Morrison predicted WTC
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Andrew Bevan



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Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:10 am    Post subject: Al H. Morrison predicted WTC Reply with quote

On November 8. 1984 I was visiting New York and the late Al H. Morrison was giving me a guided tour of the sites. He took me to Wall Street, to the United Nations and to the WTC. At the top of the Twin Towers he was telling me the history of the building. All the facts of how it was built, the amount of iron that had gone into the construction and how this had disturbed the magnetic field in the area. He was telling me how the building was fire-proof, earthquake proff, etc. and then he looked at me and said: "In the future somebody will try to fly a Boing through it." "But you are safe today".

There was no doubt that he was precticting the terrorist attack of 9/11-2001. He was 'dead-on' and I have reason to believe that there was somethiing in the founding chart of the building that revealed this detail. I recall there was a lunar eclipse on the day of November 8. 1984. I have the story on my website together with something Morrison told me at the time regarding eclipse paths: http://www.astronor.com/eclipse_paths.htm This was only conveyed to me in parts and it took me years to werk out what he meant.
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SGFoxe



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Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a fan of Al H. too -- blown away by his horoscope of the crucifixion, had a running correspondence re US ascendant. Initially he liked the 7GE rising, but later apostasy w/publication of Laurie Ephron's Mars rising monograph. Learned so much history defending my position, Sibley be damned, it just seems that a Declaration of INDEPENDENCE would have Uranus rising. Additional to which Aldebaran was the beginning of the chthonic american (Mayan) zodiac, something as momentous as birth of a nation would have to somehow capture the great spirit of the land, also captures the Pl/Ne conjunction of 1892 which ushered in the American Century -- clincher for me was, I am from Niagara Falls & recall vividly the night the lights went out in November 1965 on Spiro Agnew's birthday. Secondary progressions for the 7 GE rising chart progressed to an eclipse hit it w/in 18 hours (the fault for the eastern seaboard blackout was in the power apparatus at Niagara --
... never had the privilege of meeting Al H personally

Sonja
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Tom
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Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew wrote:

Quote:
He was 'dead-on' and I have reason to believe that there was something in the founding chart of the building that revealed this detail.


Just recently, very recently, I was engaged in a discussion on predictions of 9/11 in particular Robert Zoller's. Zoller made a very accurate prediction regarding an attack on the East Coast of the US in September of 2001. The problem is he never revealed to anyone, at least publicly, how he came to that conclusion.

I took a look at some of the suggested charts, 1999 eclipse, 2001 Ingress charts, the eclipse preceding the attacks, etc in an effort to build a case the way Morin might have done it. I never finished because the discussion (it was online) deteriorated into "truther" assertions that it was done by the US government and even religious beliefs got into the act. The astrology was forgotten.

But in the course of my research I also pulled up some charts regarding the beginning of construction. The problem, as is always a problem with this sort of thing, is that there is no one set date and of course no easily obtainable time of day. I didn't spend too much time on these charts because no classical astrologer would have used them unless he knew the attack would be on the Twin Towers in the first place.

My question is: What foundation chart(s) would Morrison have used and what would he compare them to? There was groundbreaking in 1966 for the first tower and another groundbreaking for the second some time later . Should we use the opening in 1974, or capping even though the building was open for business but not yet completed when that happened. My desktop research could not produce a time of day for the ceremonies and is that the right date or do we need to look for final approval from the City?

Better question: why do famous astrologers make accurate predictions and not tell anyone how they did it? Or maybe Morrison was just kidding?
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Mark
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
My question is: What foundation chart(s) would Morrison have used and what would he compare them to? There was groundbreaking in 1966 for the first tower and another groundbreaking for the second some time later . Should we use the opening in 1974, or capping even though the building was open for business but not yet completed when that happened. My desktop research could not produce a time of day for the ceremonies and is that the right date or do we need to look for final approval from the City?


Based on Andrew's thread I once spent an entire afternoon researching this topic. Unfortunately, I lost my internet connection and it became one of those lost posts we have probably all experienced here. I have never had the time or energy to get back into it. It would be interesting to try again and study these various charts again.

Incidentally, can I ask has anyone here heard of a Robert Hand prediction of the 9/11 attacks? I was discussing this with a couple of other astrologers in my Association tonight. They said the article came out in the Mountain Astrologer earlier that year. I was sure they were mixing this up with Robert Zoller's prediction but they were adamant it was by Hand. I wasn't active in astrology at that time. Does anyone else remember this piece by Hand?
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Tom
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Incidentally, can I ask has anyone here heard of a Robert Hand prediction of the 9/11 attacks?


This is one of those, "To the best of my recollection" stories. I was in attendance at a lecture Rob Hand gave prior to 9/11/2001 where he predicted "war," based on the Pluto - Saturn opposition. I cannot recall dates etc. Hand was probably thinking in terms of nation state vs nation state kind of war and that is understandable as that is the way things were prior to 9/11. He did not, to the best of my knowledge, predict the specific attacks. However unlike Zoller and perhaps Morrison, he did publicly give astrological reasons for his prediction.

A few years later he mentioned himself and I think Jim Shawvan in addition to Zoller as astrologers who predicted "it." But again, I think "it" was a war prediction not a specific prediction of an attack.

Please note, I think a prediction of "war" is pretty damn good given that the time he predicted it, it was the farthest thing from anyone's mind.
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Mark
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom wrote:

Quote:
Please note, I think a prediction of "war" is pretty damn good given that the time he predicted it, it was the farthest thing from anyone's mind.


Thanks Tom. Thumbs up

I will see if his article in the MA can still be obtained as a back issue. I know it was 10 years ago but can you still remember if Robert Hand was using the Sibly chart for his prediction? It would be interesting to see his full delineation. I would assume it wasn't just based on a transit.

Quote:
Just recently, very recently, I was engaged in a discussion on predictions of 9/11 in particular Robert Zoller's. Zoller made a very accurate prediction regarding an attack on the East Coast of the US in September of 2001. The problem is he never revealed to anyone, at least publicly, how he came to that conclusion.


While we are on the subject where did Zoller originally put out his prediction of the 9/11 attacks? I would like to get more specifics on the Zoller prediction as accurate mundane prediction is not exactly thick on the ground. Its something of a tragedy to have made such an accurate prediction and not offer your astrological reasoning. Has he put out any more reasons recently? I thought I saw something Steven Birchfield once put up here where Zoller cited eclipse paths? I might ask Chris Brennan too as he interviwed Zoller on his Radio programme.

Mark
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Last edited by Mark on Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tom
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zoller published his prediction in the newsletter he wrote for students, Nuntius. I think I had a copy but it was over ten years ago, and I can't find it. It may have been lost in the copying of one computer to another over the decade. I think it was published in August of 2000. To the best of my recollection, he did not specify a method and this caused a stink after the events. His students were praising him to Heaven, but his critics wanted more. One of his students, named Luke Andrews, wrote a defense of sorts in Nuntius that didn't help much. Andrews suggested that Zoller used the 1999 eclipse, but that was as far as it got.

But even James Randi got into the act. In an issue of the Skeptical Inquirer someone, not Randi, criticized Zoller's prediction on the most asinine grounds and I think the author had a copy of the original prediction. He did not criticize on astrological grounds; he would have to know some astrology to do that. To the best of my knowledge, Zoller hasn't said much about it.

I have a cassette tape of a Rob Hand lecture that might answer that question, if I can find a device to play it on. Cassette tapes are passe. The lecture was titled something like "The Chart of the World." If I had to guess I would say he used the Sibley chart.

Tom
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Mark
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom wrote:
Quote:
Zoller published his prediction in the newsletter he wrote for students, Nuntius. I think I had a copy but it was over ten years ago, and I can't find it. It may have been lost in the copying of one computer to another over the decade. I think it was published in August of 2000. To the best of my recollection, he did not specify a method and this caused a stink after the events.


Thanks for that. I had heard it was a bit controversial but didn't know why before now.

Whatever Zoller's motivations it seems a shame. I cannot think of a better opportunity to demonstrate the predictive power of astrology than this. Sadly, if we cannot replicate his methods the prediction will have no practical impact on mundane astrological practice.

Tom wrote:
Quote:
But even James Randi got into the act.
Sick

Mark
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Stellarium



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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be very wary of any predictions based solely or mostly on a Saturn-Pluto aspect or some vague predictions of "war" over the 1999 eclipse. The old saying that the stopped clock will be right twice a day comes to mind. To my mind, any reliable prediction must use cardinal ingress figures as the bare minimum to arise at a prediction. These are the methods I would use:

1. Aries Ingress preceding Jupiter-Saturn conjunction or Jupiter-Saturn opposition (the first conjunction/opposition only) erected for the relevant location (usually the capital city of some country). Some prefer to erect a figure for the exact moment the JSC occurs but I have found the Aries ingress preceding the conjunction to be more accurate based on a small study of 5 notable decades (1860s-Civil War, 1910s-WWI, 1940s-WWII, 1960s-Civil rights struggle, assassinations, major social change and 2000s-9/11, war). A very brief delineation of Mars/Aries/4th in the 2000 Aries ingress preceding the JSC as an attack on the homeland is given in a thread I posted a year ago on the WTC attack.

2. Aries ingress and other cardinal sign ingress figures for the year concerned - see Saturn/Taurus exactly on the Asc for the 2001 Aries ingress in NYC as the most obvious red flag. As a fixed sign was rising, this ingress was valid for the whole (astrological) year. The malice of that ingress was reinforced in the Cancer ingress where both Saturn and Mars were angular (Saturn/Gemini/1st-Mars/Sagittarius/7th).

3. lunations, eclipses, transits/aspects.

4. Possibly: A (previous) event chart progressed if one exists - would have to be highly specific (e.g not the starting point of "a war"). One did exist for the WTC because of the 1993 bombing. Perhaps the natal chart of the nation's leader/president.
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Mark
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have just been listening to Chris Brennan's interview with Robert Zoller on the Traditional Astrology RadioBlogTalk programmes recorded in January this year. You can download this and 75 other excellent interviews for free.

The relevant bit of the interview is about 27-28 minutes into it. Zoller doesn't explain what technique he used for his prediction. To be fair Chris Brennan doesn't ask him. However, Zoller does mention that he did contact both the FBI and CIA to alert them of his concerns.

http://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/traditional-astrology-radio/id317773668

Mark
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Stellarium



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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom wrote:
Andrew wrote:

Quote:
He was 'dead-on' and I have reason to believe that there was something in the founding chart of the building that revealed this detail.


Just recently, very recently, I was engaged in a discussion on predictions of 9/11 in particular Robert Zoller's. Zoller made a very accurate prediction regarding an attack on the East Coast of the US in September of 2001. The problem is he never revealed to anyone, at least publicly, how he came to that conclusion.

I took a look at some of the suggested charts, 1999 eclipse, 2001 Ingress charts, the eclipse preceding the attacks, etc in an effort to build a case the way Morin might have done it. I never finished because the discussion (it was online) deteriorated into "truther" assertions that it was done by the US government and even religious beliefs got into the act. The astrology was forgotten.

But in the course of my research I also pulled up some charts regarding the beginning of construction. The problem, as is always a problem with this sort of thing, is that there is no one set date and of course no easily obtainable time of day. I didn't spend too much time on these charts because no classical astrologer would have used them unless he knew the attack would be on the Twin Towers in the first place.
My question is: What foundation chart(s) would Morrison have used and what would he compare them to? There was groundbreaking in 1966 for the first tower and another groundbreaking for the second some time later . Should we use the opening in 1974, or capping even though the building was open for business but not yet completed when that happened. My desktop research could not produce a time of day for the ceremonies and is that the right date or do we need to look for final approval from the City?

Better question: why do famous astrologers make accurate predictions and not tell anyone how they did it? Or maybe Morrison was just kidding?


The progressed chart of the 1993 WTC bombing was accurate to about a month in this regard http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5887&sid=d73ff1c9950a7f27ada12f0095d729a0

But I see your point. It is most unlikey that any astrologer would have picked up on this prior to the event (back then I thought astrology was just star-signs!).
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Mark
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stellarium wrote:
Quote:
I would be very wary of any predictions based solely or mostly on a Saturn-Pluto aspect or some vague predictions of "war" over the 1999 eclipse.


I dont think anyone was sugggesting that kind of approach was sufficient. Tom just mentioned he recalled (from a talk 10 years ago!) that the Saturn-Pluto aspect was a part of Hand's delineation. I am sure there was a lot more to it. Equally, I am sure any judgement by Zoller would have been more complex. I was just mentioning that the eclipses seems to have been a factor in Zoller's approach. I would be very surprised if Zoller wasn't looking at the Aries ingress charts.

Mark
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Tom
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I would be very wary of any predictions based solely or mostly on a Saturn-Pluto aspect or some vague predictions of "war" over the 1999 eclipse.


Mark wrote:
Quote:
I don't think anyone was suggesting that kind of approach was sufficient.


Exactly. My exact words, I believe were "BASED ON" the Saturn Pluto opposition and to my recollection it was. The Saturn Pluto opposition was a fact, it was placed in a context and built on from there. We need to remember that these threads are conversations, not scholarly, peer reviewed papers. There has to be a little leeway granted or we'll all be buried in books just to say hello, if we bother to write anything at all. If I were writing in order to criticize, or even support (not just mention) Hand's methods, then I would be obligated to go into detail. If anyone wants more detail, just ask and if I can provide it I will when I get the time.
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Tom
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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also wish to clarify something else I wrote that was poorly phrased. I said I was using Ingress and other charts to use hindsight astrology to try to "predict" the 9/11 attacks in a method that Morin might have used. In that context I also said I looked at foundation charts for the Twin Towers which an astrologer would not have used.

What I meant was that I was attempting to use Morin's methods as they might have been used by an astrologer prior to the attacks who was looking to make a prediction or two for the coming year. Obviously with no foreknowledge of the attacks, our hypothetical astrologer would not have used any foundation charts for the Twin Towers. He would have had to know the Twin Towers were going to be attacked in order to use them. I think it is well beyond the capabilities of any astrologer to say with certainty prior to the events that people were going to fly airplanes into the Twin Towers in September 2001. However, if Morin's methods are usable, then something of this nature should be in the charts he would have used.

Sorry Al. If you don't tell us how you did it, I have to remain skeptical regardless of your reputation (ditto Robert Zoller).
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james_m



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Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

some here might find this article of value.
http://www.new-library.com/info/articles/prediction-and-11th-september-2001+35.html
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