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Mundane Challenge: The Euro Crisis
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to thank Lunlumo for his analysis. His posts set out his position very clearly. This was the kind of predictive boldness I was hoping to see on the forum. You sometimes see the odd stray comment that members can later take credit for but its extremely rare to see any systematic and thorough analysis here being used to make a prediction.

I think the last time we really saw this was Steven Birchfield's prediction on the Korean crisis last year. I am not sure his prediction ever actually materialized in the way he suggested. Equally, David Hernandez has set out some predictions here but on the whole I haven't seen them play out as he suggested either.

Even the biggest astrological names sometimes get it wrong. For example the great Vedic astrologer B.V. Raman predicted a world war would break out on May 28th 2000. Confused

Of course if he had timed this for September 2011 he would have been hailed as the Nostradamus of the age. Lets face it mundane prediction can be a risky business for the very best of us. From the point of view of reputation the more respected amongst us have a lot more to lose. Noel Tyl wrote a book in 1996 entitled Predictions for the New Millenium where he put out dozens of mundane predictions. Hardly any of them have come to pass. Shocked

However, unlike most contemporary reviewers of this book I respect Tyl for at least having a go. Regardless of whether his astrological methodology was sound enough I think his error was the scatter gun approach he used putting out predictions everywhere. I do think there is a lot to be said for focusing on a single issue or country when predicting.

Still, for those of us that do mundane astrology seriously isn't it almost a moral responsibility to do more predictive work at such a critical juncture in world events? I accept internet astrology can be very shallow at times. Plus many people have neither the time or inclination for a detailed well thought out prediction. The time factor I am sure inhibits many of us with our need to just make a crust and deal with the other every day aspects of our lives.

On the other hand look at Charles Carter and the other British astrologers who generally failed to predict WWII. How must they have felt? Personally, I think it is sometimes worse to fail to predict than predict wrongly.

In contrast B.V Raman who I mentioned above did successfully predict the outbreak of WWII as early as 1937. I do think we need more careful, thorough well considered analysis on a question like this. An issue such as the Euro is very complex as a mundane challenge. On the other hand what use are the very best astrological skills in the world if we never apply them predictively to the world around us? And surely the state of the world economy is the issue of this decade? I suspect when mundane astrologers of the future come to look back to examine the astrology of this period they will not look very kindly at astrologers who simply sat on their hands during this critical period of world history.

Mark
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello John,

Thanks for posting. Glad we have managed to lure you over to the mundane forum.

Quote:
I have taken the view that astrology should be considered in the context of what is known. To this extent the fate of the Euro seems tied in with the German and French nations.


An important point. Like the EU in general the Franco-German relationship has always been pivotal. You have reminded me that we need to be studying charts for France two as well as the natal charts for Sarkozy and Merkel.


Quote:
A first look at the Euro 2002 Chart and the Greece 1974 Democracy Chart shows a strong connection between the two. Whilst there is clearly tension between the Charts there is also a compatibility which leads me to question, despite the problems in Greece, if there is an appetite in the country for it to revert back to drachma. Does Greece see greater strength remaining in the Euro zone, despite the calls for an independent drachma to allow devaluation and greater competitiveness? Perhaps the Euro question for Greece is a symptom of more deep seated problems?


I am not sure the views of the Greeks matter that much at this stage. Their economy is a total basket case whether it stays inside or outside the Euro. At least outside the Euro the Greeks could devalue their currency.

Plus as the old saying goes 'He who pays the piper calls the tune'. The more economically healthy northern countries and especially Germany are the key decision makers here now. Even more than this though the markets have the power to make the position of certain economies non-viable due to their sovereign debt problem. Spain's problems like Britain and Ireland are largely the fall out from an unrealistic housing bubble. However, Italy's sovereign debt problem is worse than Spain's and their economic problems more systemic due to an unsustainable welfare and pensions system without the economic performance to support it. The French aren't that far behind in terms of sovereign debt.


Quote:
Coming back to France and Germany, there are French presidential elections next year and German Federal elections in 2013. How likely is it that the players in the elections of these countries will want such a Euro crisis issue prior to the vote? What the population of these countries decide and how the political parties treat the Euro crisis is still to be crystallised. I feel that the astrology of the Euro should be considered in this context.


Your right to highlight the proximity of elections in Germany and France. German Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democrat party (CDU) continues to perform poorly at state government elections. The German voters clearly are thoroughly sick of being expected to bail out the inefficient and frankly profligate economies of southern europe. I dont know if its connected but the Germans today cancelled ongoing negotiations with the Greeks over the terms of the bail out due to an inability to reach an agreement. European markets slumped while US markets were closed due to Labor day.

The latest defeat in Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania must be especially painful for Angela Merkel as this is her home state. However, at least Merkel has the cushion of two years to her next federal election. The French Presidential and national Assembly elections are as soon as April 22nd in 2012. One result of the resignation of Dominique Strauss-Kahn is that the Socialists may struggle to find a popular candidate against Sarkozy. Hence the new National Front leader Marine Le Pen may be in with a chance. Although the two ballot system probably makes that less likely. Overall, though the split in the right wing vote could favour the socialists.

It seems not unlikely power will switch to the left in both Germany and France in 2012-13. Italy also has its federal elections in April 2013. Thats assuming prime minister Belusconi manages to cling on that long. Sad One would think the socialists would be able to capitalize on the fading star of Belusconi but it has to be noted they have failed to do so to date. I must say if I was an Italian I would be very worried to have such a clownish figure running the show at such a pivotal time. The Italian electorate's support for this man at successive elections leaves me utterly baffled. Confused

Quote:
Coming back to the original question of the future of the Euro, perhaps this needs to be considered in the political landscape of the French and German nations. Perhaps the question should be ‘Will the Euro currency collapse before the French elections, between the French and German elections or after the German elections?


Thats always assuming it does collapse. I had to reframe this to leave the question open on that point. I think its useful to be aware of the political cycle in all these countries. However, I think leaving it as open ended as you suggest would rather muddy the waters. I have challenged people to come up with more precise dates than that. I accept it is a tough nut to crack astrologically. Still I think this issue is critical to the world economy and the prospects of a further recession or even long term depression. Its therefore worth a special effort.

Quote:
These issues are not easily answered astrologically in a few days and perhaps I’m raising the wrong questions. The issue has been raised about a two-tier Euro and the next two years, which is something that has been raised in the media for sometime and seems a serious consideration by economic commentators. If this is going to occur it may be more credible to place the timing in context of the French and German elections and the implications for change in the political landscape of these countries for the non-astrological world to sit up and possibly take notice.


Yes the two tier option has been discussed a lot in the media. Also the Euro bond. I personally think the fomer is more likely. I cannot see the German voters accepting a Euro bond. I have never expected rapid analysis on this thread. This is a complex issue. I see it over a slow burner where people can contribute their views as the situation unfolds.

Mark
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Eddy



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
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Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Mark,

Maybe I was somewhat hasty in my view. The Euro chart of 1 jan 2002 could rather be a very good one because the effects of the change of money was immediately noticed by anyone. Even better than average national charts, when policy slowly changes. So creating some kind of spirit in which the imprint of the chart was put in to if this doesnt sound too vague. I,m on a holiday now but I just wanted to say this.
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geo



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Location: Athens, Greece

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like all Pluto afflicted charts, it's gonna be either death or rebirth (in a different form)
Taking into account the 1-1-2002 birthchart version, one notices the following:

Tr.Pluto -twisting for the past 2 years around ASC ruler, venus, making this a really "euro" debt crisis- is entering Rx the 7dg Cap venusbetween 11 jul-6 sep 2012 and then again for the last time 1 oct-22 nov 2012
Uranus approaching by sextile saturn (L4 & Sun's ruler)
Uranus in 7th might suggest sudden break-ups
Mars, as L8, could have a part on this. In the next 6 months mars will be found in 12H of secret enemies and too much fear and speculation on euro's future will be raised.

I think Mars entering Libra in july 2012 will be a significant moment for euro.

Regards,
Georgia

*also pr.Moon conjuncts natal SN at that time

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Yuriy



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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was looking at 2002 euro chart shortly before reading article about that the possible (hypothetical so far) Euro zone bailout by the US is may be only the option to prevent total austerity and possible dictatorship all over…
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/gdp-revised-down-crisis-europe-key-u-economy-182351097.html
And looking at euro chart, it’s now ongoing sextile of directed Moon (one degree for year) to natal Saturn in 9th. Saturn in perfect mutual reception with it’s ruler Mercury and may be represent foreign currency (dollar?), while Venus is both 2nd and 9th ruler sits at IC and ruled by Saturn again. And 4th house traditionally is “end of the matter”…
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Lunlumo



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Posts: 251
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/

Today's cover story of Germany's leading news magazine ("Und jetzt?" - "And now?")
Over the decades the "Spiegel" has been right again and again when it came to predicting in matters of vital importance. Today's message is clear: the union is splitting into two parts, the end of the monetary union is near. Barroso has finally turned out to be a bad gambler. He lost, there will be no Euro-Bonds that would include all the Euro-countries. Had Merkel agreed it would have been the end of her career and her government - her party would have revolted. Not to mention the public - sick indeed of the pressure put on the country - billions have been transfered to Greece - what they get in return are swastikas and cartoons showing Merkel in Nazi uniforms. Now, what Greece is getting in return is a growing contempt in Germany ... bad times for Europe.
What is planned now: loans and bonds for "the better half": Germany, Austria, Finland, France, Luxemburgh, Netherlands - stop.
This is the decisive step towards two monetary unions - however, that will not be the end of the story.

Sun ingress CAP, 2011, Frankfurt:



UR at 1st degree AR, midpoint of NE and JU. What did Ebertin say to UR=JU/NE? - As far as I remember he mentioned the sudden awareness of fatal illusions (?). Better late than too late.

LL
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What is planned now: loans and bonds for "the better half": Germany, Austria, Finland, France, Luxemburgh, Netherlands - stop.


No Belgium or Denmark?

Economic realists have been proposing this from the start of the Euro. Arguably, countries like Greece, Portugal and even Italy never really met the convergence criteria in the first place. The UK publication the Economist made exactly this proposal you suggest a couple of months ago.

Greece, Portugal and Ireland are one thing. The question is how you dismantle economies from the Euro like Italy and Spain without causing economic meltdown in those countries and the surrounding economies?

Its not as if the new northern Euro zone would be immune. French Banks are heavily indebted to Italian debt. To a lesser extent so are some German Banks. Even Deutsche Bank has lost its AAA rating. Shocked

I suppose there were only ever three realistic options

1) Euro bond
2) ECB funding bail outs to Italy, Spain etc
3) The weaker economies leaving the Euro and being essentially left to their fate.

Perhaps option three sells much better for German public opinon. The concern with the Euro bond or ECB bail outs was that the economires concerned would not fundamentally restructure. This in turn would devalue the Euro as a competitive world currency and Germany would be paying most of the cheques.

Certainly, option 3 appears the economically least painful option for Germany (at least in the short term). However, politically this will seriously damage Germany's reputation in Europe. If Italy and Spain are effectively forced out of the Euro many are going to blame German inaction as the catalyst for a full scale global economic depression. It does seem like a failure of leadership to many already.

The question remains though how do you make a country leave the Euro that wants stay in? Germany cannot get off that lightly. Merkel and the ECB needs to come up with a credible plan to make this idea realistic.

What is clear is that the status quo cannot be allowed to go on much longer. The current atmosphere feels like the quiet before the storm. Its like a tree that has been already cut down. We just await someone to shout Timber!

If Merkel doesn't have the vision and courage to take decisive action soon the markets will do it for her. Arguably that might make the dismantling of the Euro less politically difficult to achieve. Massive amounts of Italian government debt are due another repayment in the new year....
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Epictetus


Last edited by Mark on Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:12 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Eddy



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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Aries ingress for Frankfurt a. M. doesn't seemt too bad from rulerships point of view.

Date/Time: 2012.03.20 05:14:30 UTC (GMT - Delta T), JD = 2456006.718403 Sidereal Time: 17:07:05, Delta T = 71.2 seconds

Planet Longitude Latitude
Sun 00 Ari 00'00" 0°00'01"
Moon 02 Psc 42'56" 5°01'10"
Mercury 02 Ari 57'59"R 3°27'01"
Venus 15 Tau 49'45" 2°34'16"
Mars 07 Vir 38'24"R 3°46'34"
Jupiter 10 Tau 47'06" - 0°54'11"
Saturn 28 Lib 05'38"R 2°44'11"
Moon's Node 07 Sgr 41'47"R 0°00'00"

Local Sidereal Time 17:41:45
MC 25°49' Sa
Asc 19°43' Pi

MC and Asc are in signs ruled by Jupiter. Jupiter is in II house (when one uses equal MC houses) together with Venus. This might indicate a year dominated by money. A disturbing factor might be the ruler of the sign on cusp II: Mars. Mars in VI is opposite the Moon in XII. Both are trine respectively sextile to Jupiter Venus conjunction. Perhaps a position which could be seen as distrust. The Moon is close to its highest latitude (bending). Sun is close to the Ascendant in I in conjunction with Mercury. Mercury and Mars are in mutual reception. Saturn on cusp VIII.

Although I'm not used to looking at (and therefore probably not good at delineating) the signs and houses, this would seem not so bad a year apart from some quarrels between the member-states.

Comparing it with Lunlomo's chart for the Capricorn ingress, Moon, Venus and Sun are in positions almost similar to the Aries ingress position. Venus is again in II (also in the equal MC house system) In the Aries ingress, the Moon and Venus are in each other's exaltation places.

In the Capricorn ingress chart, Jupiter and Saturn are in opposition, but Jupiter will go direct before the opposition will be exact, refranation. The exact opposition was end March (and thus close at the Aries ingress of 2011). Perhaps this opposition indicates this years' tension and distrust around money. Note that this opposition occurs only once, while the last (major) aspect between the two occurred 5! times in 2007/2008. The start of the world's fincancial crisis, and I think mainly because of 'overcourageness'/recklessness in the economical world.

The lunar eclipse of 4 juni 2012 is partial and perhaps not so effective but it looks interesting because of the Sun in X close to the MC in Frankfurt a. M. and the Sun/Moon is square to Mars near cusp I / Ascendant. Moreover Sun is joined by Venus and Mercury.

Date/Time: 2012.06.04 11:04:00 UTC (GMT - Delta T), JD = 2456082.961111 Sidereal Time: 03:57:10, Delta T = 71.4 seconds

Planet Longitude Latitude
Sun 14 Gem 13'40" - 0°00'00"
Moon 14 Sgr 09'17" 0°50'09"
Moon's Node 05 Sgr 05'19"R 0°00'00"
Apogee 28 Tau 54'22"R 0°34'17"
Mercury 23 Gem 51'58" 1°37'49"
Venus 16 Gem 44'34"R 0°31'49"
Mars 16 Vir 09'33" 1°00'49"
Jupiter 28 Tau 19'48" - 0°46'43"
Saturn 23 Lib 07'10"R 2°39'50"

MC 9°37' Gemini
Asc. 14°12' Virgo
Mercury is dominant in these angles and the angles in this chart is an 'opposition' of the angles in the Aries ingress.

10 december 2011 there's a total lunar eclipse but during daytime in Europe. Don't know about its relevance.
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Eddy,

I suspect the solar eclipse next May may well reflect the Euro generated recession spreading to Asia pacific and the USA.

This eclipse falls at 00° Gemini 21' on May 20th 2012. The eclipse path goes across China and the western USA. I hate to sound like a prophet of doom when there is enough misery around already but I think that may indicate signs of global recession hitting China, Japan and the western USA.

It will also be a good year to practically test out the currently most popular national chart for the USA (Sibly) which in its most common variant has 12-13° Sagittarius rising. The June Cancer ingress (2012) is almost exactly on this degree 11'58° Sag while the Lunar Eclipse of June 4 2012 falls at 14° Sagittarius. An interesting build up to the Presidential elections in November 2012!



Mark
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Eddy



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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
Hi Eddy,

Just thought I would mention the solar eclipse next year on May 20th 2012 with a path across China and the western USA.

Although I didn't give it attention yet (partly because below the horizon in Frankfurt a. M. and because of lack of time) with the greatest eclipse close to the date line, it means that it is in the IC places along the Greenwich meridian, London. Perhaps this would also have some meaning of Euro troubles for the UK.

The path interestingly connect East Asia with West US http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEplot/SEplot2001/SE2012May20A.GIF and close to Hong-Kong to California, the richest areas. No direction connection but I as reminded of the 19th century railway builders among which many were Chinese. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_American_history#Transcontinental_railroad The transcontinental railroad connected West with East US.
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Eddy wrote:
I as reminded of the 19th century railway builders among which many were Chinese. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_American_history#Transcontinental_railroad The transcontinental railroad connected West with East US.


I was feeling a bit guilty about going off in a tangent until I saw this! Laughing I wish I had time to properly go over your analysis above but no time sadly. Anyway, thanks for our first mundane post delineating with the MC house system!

Mark
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Lunlumo



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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:

No Belgium or Denmark?


No again:

Belgium - a country that, with a view to political basics, has partly ceased to exist. No government. Kept alive by EU red tape. Fascinating - nobody seems to notice this. Falling apart. Belgium: two countries now - no government for more than a year, bad ratings - so NO.

Denmark - like Sweden not a member of the monetary union.

As to Merkel - "not my cup of tea" - but she seems to be slightly underestimated - ask Barroso (what a fool), ask Sarkozy. "To be or not to be" - Merkel would not hesitate if it came to the worst - i.e. say by bye to the Euro. Funny, Germany's neighbouring countries are obviously partly unwilling, partly unable to see that there has been a dramatic shift here. "Let the Germans pay.." !? - no longer, yesterday's papers.
LL
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Last edited by Lunlumo on Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
No again:
Quote:
Belgium - a country that with a view to political basics has partly ceased to exist. No government. Kept alive by EU red tape. Fascinating - nobody seems to notice this. Falling apart, Belgium: two countries now - no government for more than a year, bad ratings - so NO.


We do have the odd Belgian member Lunlumo. Go easy on them. Smile

Lots of sovereign debt. I had noticed the ethnic divide. The problem is Brussels as the Walloons and Flemish both want it as their capital. Still it looks a bit bad with even Brussels outside the Euro! Maybe Brussels should be declared a city state on its own. It could be the effective federal capital territory of the whole EU like Washington DC or Canberra. I know the UK Euro sceptics will love that idea!

Quote:
Denmark - like Sweden not a member of the monetary union.
ooops. Quite right. Apologies ( or congratulations) to all Danes out there!
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handn



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello

I've been reading these threads with interest because I'm very new to the traditional way of looking at the ingress charts for Aries etc. I'm not sure yet how much weight to place on them, if any, but as far as following the traditional techniques go (as much as I've got my head round them at this point in my studies, which is not very much) I was quite shocked to see how strong the 2nd house is in the Aries 2012 chart set for Frankfurt as per Eddy's post above.

Obviously there are the problems with the Moon's configuration as Eddy's pointed out already. There is a mitigating factor for the opposition of Moon and Mars, in that there's a Mutual Reception by Triplicity, so there might be a desire to help each other out across the oppositional chasm. Mars ruling the 8th house cusp (debts, etc) didn't look very nice, especially as it's the dispositor of Sun, Mercury, Lot of Fortune in Aries in the 1st (angularly placed).

But there's no getting away from how strong the 2nd house looks. By Regio Jupiter is 5 degrees behind the cusp, but by Placidus it's right on it. By Regio Venus (Essentially Dignified) is right on the cusp. Very interesting.

As a user of the outer planets though I have to take into account the Moon's conjunction with Neptune (don't put drugs in the people's water! Smile ), and Pluto sitting on the cusp of the 11th (Regio) at the apex of a grand trine with Mars and Jupiter. What is especially not nice is that Mars and Jupiter are trining from each other's signs of detriment. What to make of this? It seems to be a picture about the Eurozone club, debt, power, loans, loss of control, debt, loans, did I mention indebtedness and loans yet? Smile I find it hard to read (I find these charts hard to read, full stop), but perhaps it says something about clinging on for dear life to the club as a way of holding things together, even though Mars and Jupiter are not good for each other. The 11th is also the leaders' money, the exchequer..... not sure that that applies here since we're looking at things from the viewpoint of the Eurozone's banking system, but maybe it's applicable, I don't know.

I also didn't like retro Mercury ruling 7th for foreign trade and contracts with allies. It also rules 3rd (neighbours) and 4th (domestic matters).

But as I understand it we must also look to the Libra ingress, because the Aries ingress has a Common sign rising, and therefore does not hold for the whole year.

This Libra ingress chart isn't as nice for the finances, is it? Ruler of 2nd is Jupiter, in its detriment and moving slowly, not far from its first station. It has a trine to its dispositor, Mercury, but Mercury hasn't got much to offer being peregrine and in the 8th (and in square to Pluto and opposed by Uranus, both of which I'd read as afflictions). Jupiter's sextile with Venus in the 7th can only offer weak support IMO. At least Jupiter's sextile the Lot of Fortune in the 2nd....

The Aries ingress for 2011 set for Frankfurt has Jupiter as the Asc-ruler, opposed to Saturn (2nd-ruler) from the sign of Saturn's detriment, and the Moon (8th-ruler) conjunct but separating from Saturn (2nd-ruler), so maybe the tensions are more understandable with the great chronocrators astride angular houses and in a stand-off?

I should look at the eclipse charts as well....... then I can really drown myself in information overload Lala Happy

Sorry I haven't made any predictions....... I'm not yet into the technique enough to venture a judgement.

Regards

H.
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handn



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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello again

Adding two things about this technique, rather than about the charts themselves....... perhaps this isn't the thread to raise them..... not sure.

First is that to see whether these charts show a currency union break-up I think I'd need to analyse more charts of financial crises, otherwise my expectations of what a currency union break-up would look like in a chart like this could be way off beam.

Secondly, a major problem I have with this technique, and with all similar techniques such as charts cast for conjunctions of Saturn and Jupiter etc, is that it's too general.

It's clearer if I specify this using this thread's example.

As far as I know the technique doesn't provide a way to separate out analysis of, in this instance, Frankfurt itself and the Eurozone.

The same principle applies to casting ingress/conjunction/phase charts for capital cities..... how can we distinguish between the analysing the chart for the city itself, versus using it as a symbolic chart for the whole of the state or country it's in?

Casting an ingress or eclipse or conjunction chart for Brussels, how can we distinguish between Brussels, Belgium, and the EU? (And that's naming only 3 of the nested entities that converge there).

If I cast a chart for Moscow to see how Moscow's going to fare, how can that be separated out from analysing how Russia's going to fare? They're not one and the same, so to say 'but their fates are intertwined' wouldn't stand up logically - yes they're intertwined, but they're not one and the same.

This is one of the things that troubles me about this category of techniques.

I'm now thinking about whether there's a simple and obvious solution that I've missed.....

Coming back to the Eurozone issue, these are the lines my thoughts are running along at the moment........ is Frankfurt the right place to use? If so, shouldn't we be using the 1st house, not the 2nd? Shouldn't the chart be set for Brussels if we're going to look at the 2nd house? (which brings me straight back to my first dilemma.... how to distinguish Brussels from the EU etc)

Regards

H.
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