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Explosion in Government Quarters, Oslo
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4594
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Early after Breivik was arrested there was an interview with his father who hadn't had contact with his son since he was a young lad. A psychologist has recently added he had recommended that Breivik was moved to a foster home at the age of 4 year without his advice being followed. Such a recommendation was quite unusual/infrequent and a serious matter at the time.., at any time really, although psychologists and authorities seem more ready to act on behalf of the rights, security and needs of the child now. I think.

A lot of people in Norway feel that Breivik should be held responsible and sentenced for his actions. The law that an insane person should not be held responsible for his/her actions has been practiced in Norway since the middle ages. The Norwegians seem quite amid that both law and the rights of Breivik should be respected, but probably that the law should at least be reviewed in terms of the gravity of the terrorist attack and manslaughter at Utõya.
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Eddy



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mars is now in 8° Virgo. I compared this with Breivik’s natal chart and it’s conjunct close to his natal Moon-Saturn conjunction (However no 100% certainty about the Moon's position because of unknown birthtime).

In a quick view I don’t see relations of the time of the bombs in Oslo and the actual transits (apart from retrograde Jupiter still hanging around the Descendant). What was the time(period) of the shooting massacre?

Looking at the 1905 Norway chart on p. 3 of this thread, Mars is right on the Ascendant.
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
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Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Looking at the 1905 Norway chart on p. 3 of this thread, Mars is right on the Ascendant.
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Eddy



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mars goes retrograde end of January 2012 and will be near 8° Virgo again mid-March. After going direct half-April he will be there again mid-May. Perhaps we should keep an eye on this planet at those periods. Maybe the psychiatry discussion will take several months. The criminal trial itself may be more Jupiter or Saturn related.
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4594
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Case preparations continue

The preparations in the case against Anders Behring Breivik continue in Norway with frequent TV-debates and discussions in press. One of the items that came up in yesterday's edition of 'NRK Urix' was the role played of the psychiatrists in this case and that psychiatry is 'not an exact science'. Also in the program was emphasised the importance of trying to form a picture of who Anders Behring Brevik really is....'

I guess you all know where I'm heading. It seems obvious that if methods applied are not considered an exact science and the priority is to form a picture of the assasin's personality, then astrological analysis could also offer valuable input to anyone doing research on the case and wanting to form a personality assessment. There should be nothing secondary regarding our traditions and competance within this field. But there is neccessity that we as astrologers approach our own acadamic know-how with due soberness.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 1731
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this was a very disturbing event.. i read the thread though as i was curious to see if i could learn anything.. i liked the comment from margherita about the luminaries with the malefics.. i had thought that virgo rising would fit with the chart.. it doesn't appear a definite time has come out for breivik - 7pm area, but perhaps aquarius rising -8am is better... either way, the wrong malefic will be rising by sect depending on whether you want to go with a night or day chart...

i note mark pointed out some of the solar arc data that seemed quite relevant to norways 1905 chart... don't know if he mentioned sa pluto exact square radix uranus though... sa moon 45 uranus as well - 6'past exact.. there is a close moon/pluto 45 in norways 1905 chart.. sa ascendant opp radix pluto 22' short of exact.. sa mars trine radix pluto 11' short of exact.. the ascendant to mars sextile is very close in the norway chart as well.. what to make of sa ascending node opposite radix sun 4' short of exact? interesting going back to the natal chart how nodal axis has saturn in pisces conjunct descending node..

profections directed to this date highlight saturn opposite radix neptune which in turn is 45 to radix jupiter.. p saturn thus 135 jupiter 30' past, while p saturn to neptune is 27' short. p saturn is about midway the 2.. jupiter or neptune is the 4th and 7th house ruler using whole sign and of course saturn is in pisces in the radix chart... i haven't looked at converse data..

not sure if anyone mentioned the total lunar eclipse just prior to the event on june 1 2011 10:13:34pm oslo time with the ascendant at 21 sag 08 4' off exact to natal pluto in norway chart... sun/moon close to the horizon line..

isaac starkman wanted to push the 1905 chart time back a minute or so.. i would move it forward about the same amount as i think it lines up slightly better..

would be nice to see a birth chart for breivik and one hopes this info will be released for astrologers to take a closer look...
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
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Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for the summery, Sandstone. Thumbs up

Here is the nativity of Breivik's defendant, Geir Lippestad, who, I think many will agree, through his careful conduct, thoughtful and humble approach to this difficult case has shown himself to be one of the great men of the year.

Geir Lippestad


Image: Wikipedia

Geir Lippestad is born June 7. 1964. The chart is a Sunrise chart cast for Oslo.



An interesting feature the Mercury, dispositor of the Sun, joined to Algol and in conjunction with Mars. Then he has Venus, who is dispositor of the Moon, joined to the Moon's North Node and mediates the opposition between Saturn and Uranus.

As said, everyone seems impressed with how Lippestad has managed this case so far, that is almost too gruesome for words. He has managed to focus both on the gravity of Brevik's actions and the need to ensure the legal principles that our society builds upon are followed and that will lead to a correct ruling. His appearance in the press has always shown a great calm, forethough and reflective quality (Moon in Taurus), that demonstrates both poise, patience, wisdom and self-command.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andrew it is interesting if you do a biwheel with norway 1905 on the inside and lippestad on the outer.. you will note some interesting crossovers that seem in line with the zeitgeist of the norwegian chart and people too if you think of a mundane chart as representing a people... this is especially true if you use a noon time chart for lippestad! cheers james
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
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Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Lippestad is born on the same calendary date of the Norwegian declaration of independance from Sweden (Link). Lippestad is born June 7. 1964, while the Norwegian independence from Sweden occurred on June 7. 1905. This is in itself interesting.

Lippestad's mediating Venus conjunct the Moon's North Node in Cancer (!) seems to be a powerful signification of a defence and defender. Venus and NN serves a rightious and intelligent cause, a protector of either good or justice. Just to put it straight, Lippestad doesn't seem to be defending Breivik's actions but rather the judicial system.

Breivik blew up the Goverment quarters and could have killed the Prime Minster or other important members of the Government (and lives were lost!!) and then he slaughtered in excess of 60 people out at Utöya - mostly all youths. The degree of criminal action can hardly get more gruesome than this.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andrew, yes - the sun to sun contact via the same birthdate is one connection.. lippestads venus/node contact @ the neptune/uranus opposition in the norway chart is another.. i was looking at saturn in pisces in both charts and thinking of the process of resolving the difficulties often associated with this placement of saturn in pisces.. i could see how lippestad would be very much in sync with this part of the norwegian temperament.. mercury in both charts is very close, and of course aside from the connection of sun to sun, there is the sun/pluto hard aspect in both charts.. jupiter in taurus in both charts and lippestads mars is essentially conjunct norway jupiter on it's own which suggests a positive connection...

thanks for the data on lippestad..
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
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Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

New law will keep Breivik imprisoned for life

The case against Anders Behring Breivik is soon due to be treated before a court. One on the big discussions up to this point has been whether Breivik was accountable for his own actions and could be sent to prison for life, or whether he as mentally insane, unnaccountable for his actions, and sould be referred to mental treatment. Norwegain laws states that if a person is insane then he or she is not responsible. This has caused, not surprisingly a heated and difficult debate with the psychriatic expertise at the stake. There has also been the public claim, on an official level, that psychology is not an exact science - which, it comes down to it, in my opinion, neither is the legal system.

One of the problems have been that if Breivik is found mentally insane then he could be treated and be a free man in the matter of a couple of years. How does that provide justice in a case against a man who blew up the Parliament building and mass-slaughtered 69 people?

The Norwegian government have now hastily introduced a new law that can keep Behring Anders Breivik imprisoned for life, for reasons of his own safety, according to Aftenposten.

Aftenposten, March 22:

In a submission which TV 2 has access to it is proposed that a patient should be kept confined in a high-security treatment institution as long as the police believe there is a danger that someone will attack him in retaliation for what he has done.

The bill states, among other things:

"In exceptional cases, a patient may have performed coarse and offensive actions, such as mass murder."

Further, that the condition that the patient be transferred to and held in this special safety device, should "be justified in that it is a particularly high risk of attack against the patient himself."

According to TV 2 it is probable the high-risk unit will be built inside Ila prison.

- My task is to ensure that we have a law on mental health care that protects everyone's safety, said Health Minister Anne-Grete Strõm-Erichsen (AP) who has submitted the proposal.

The bill will be presented to Parliament as soon as the deadline is up, said the Minister. The paper has been out for a hearing for three weeks and the deadline is Thursday 22 March.


Source: Aftenposten

At the moment of writing the Sun is 2AR04, the Moon is 28PI28. The luminaries are guarding retrograde Mercury at 1AR08. Mercury, Mars, Saturn are all retrograde. The Mars/Saturn midpoint is 2LI30.
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Brevik is insane and this insanity can not be cured or he has a personality disorder which generally are very difficult to alter then he should be kept in suitable institution for life.

But surprisingly so many people with personality disorder causing self harm are generally left in the community. A welfare state is responsible for both, harm to others or self harm.


PD
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Andrew Bevan



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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Breivik is claiming sanity and to be treated as an Officer of war.
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
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Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The case against Behring Breivik starts in Oslo on April 16.2012 at 09.00 CEST and is due to last for 10 weeks.



Moon, ruler of the 1st house, in the 10th - applying to the Neptune/Mars opposition. Also notice the antiscia of Saturn, lord of the 10th, tied into to configuration in the top of the chart. Saturn is in a tight opposition of the Sun, within 1 degree. This could complicate matters.
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Last edited by Andrew Bevan on Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:53 am; edited 2 times in total
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
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Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazy, evil or both?

Can Breivik be well enough to trick everyone and commit mass slaughter, and at the same time be too sick to be punished for it? That is the central question in the court case that starts in Oslo on April 14. at 09.00 CEST, according to an article in Aftenposten (Link).

Quote:
Psychiatrist Randi Rosenqvist has evaluated the 33-year-old on appointment of the Ila prison. In a report, after three meetings with Breivik, she writes that he has significantly better impulse control and planning ability than most prisoners at Ila. His ability to hide his second face witnesses of good ability to "double bookkeeping" and that this requires good cognitive functions. She describes, as the two appointed experts, his distinctive personality with narcissistic grandiose ideas, and lack of empathy.

But, she writes: "I perceive his deviant statement as an expression of an extreme ideology, not in any way as a psychotic reality." Behring Breivik lives in a mindset community that is reminiscent of sects with religious / ideological basis, she claims. "He lives in a" bubble "and he has a" good quality of life with intact life lies. "


Psychotic or extreme?

There are a lot of interesting problems rasied in Aftenposten's article, which is worth reading if it translates into comprehendable English. My worry is that Saturn, Lord of the 10th, opposite the Sun indicates that the case capsizes before reaching the end. The verdict may not be acceptable for the people, or there may be some other unexpected event. Also notice the transit of Mars on the ascendant of the chart of Norway close May 13.

Should I start a new thread to cover the court case?
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Last edited by Andrew Bevan on Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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