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Deb wrote:
I don't think that either of the natal charts (or personalities) show an inclination to abdicate royal responsibilities.
Yes I agree. There is extreme fixity in Charles chart. Not just the angles but both luminaries in fixed signs. The only scenario I was thinking he might consider abdication would be if the Queen reigned on to being a centenarian on the throne and Charles suffered from illness himself by then. Otherwise despite his controversial public reputation he will probably still want a shot as King even if only for a few years. However, I have astrological reasons for doubting the second Elizabethan age will continue that much further.

I cannot forsee the Queen ever abdicating. Both luminaries in fixed signs. Equally her MC-IC axis is in fixed signs. Her ASC ruler is Saturn in Scorpio on the MC. This indicates an exceptionally tenacious attitude to retaining work responsibilities. Another example that comes to mind was the former FBI Director J Edgar Hoover who headed the organization from 1924 until his death in 1972.

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Hoover,_J._Edgar

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

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Thanks for your replies Deb and Mark

I was certainly thinking about astrological predictions made at the time of the birth of Prince Charles rather than later in his life. The late Queen Mother was said to have been concerned about them.

Given the potential changes for Britain discussed here and elsewhere Mark must have good reason to suspect that whatever Charles inherits it is likely to be different from what he expects and it will be interesting to see Mark's take on it

Regards

Matthew
Matthew Goulding

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I thought members might be interested to know that I have just posted up the text of my article Scotland: Independence or Union? which appeared in the July/August issue of the Astrological Journal . This is the main publication of the The Astrological Association of the United Kingdom.

Here is the link: http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic ... 1943871c16

I have locked that thread so if members which to discuss the piece or the referendum in general please post in this thread.

regards

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

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thanks mark! i wondered how long you were going to wait!!

i like your conclusion. at this point it looks close, but i do think you are correct to say regardless of the vote the issue isn't going away.

we had a referendum on proportional representation here in b.c. and the gov't decided they would make the bar line 60/40 in order to pass it.. this is the state of dumbocracy here on the west coast of canada provincially speaking.. funny thing - harper was all for proportional representation until he got into power too! we can dream about democracy, but it is heartening to see the concept of 50% being the line dividing a yes or a no, as opposed to 60/40 - thanks gordon campbell(previous premier for b.c. who came up with the 60/40 concept), who is now some sort of ambassador for canada in gb - harper gave him the perk! sorry but i had to get that off my chest thinking about this!

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Hi James,
thanks mark! i wondered how long you were going to wait!!
Yes. It was personal issues holding me up. I meant to post it up at the end of August.
I like your conclusion. at this point it looks close, but i do think you are correct to say regardless of the vote the issue isn't going away.
When my article was published the polls were roughly 60%-40% to the No vote excluding undecided. But I always felt this would be decided on a razors edge. The ingress charts show a heavy momentum to the Yes campaign. But is it enough to make up the lost ground and cross the line first on September 18th?

Undoubtably over the last few months and especially the last month the momentum seems to have been heavily going to the Yes campaign.

Last week we saw a poll indicating Yes at 47% and No at 53%. The poll analyst Peter Kellner suggested the Yes campaign had made up ground because the dont knows were moving 2 to 1 to Yes.

Then today another poll by the same company (You Gov) showed 51% Yes vs 49% No excluding the dont knows. This is historic. This is the first poll in history to ever suggest a majority of Scots are in favour of independence.

Its now clear this this poll could go either way. Its going to be a cliffhanger!

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... oll-yougov

In response the UK government has today announced new plans agreed with all the major parties for increased devolved powers for the Scottish Parliament.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/sc ... 16931.html

Considering that postal voting has already begun and that this campaign has been running for years The SNP has with some justification stated that the no campaign is 'engulfed in panic.'

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09 ... d%3D291330

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

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mark,

thanks for this additional information. it is difficult as an outsider to appreciate the many strands that develop on something so important as this historically..

here is what i am thinking astrologically. i have been pondering the developing jupiter/uranus trine the past 4 or 5 days and what it means for the possibility of the ceasefire holding in eastern ukraine, but i also thought it might be enough of give people a sense of comfort in voting for a 'change' such as this, but they might not do in some other context.. it is really hard to know, but that moon in cancer in the referendum chart date is especially interesting to know just how it will influence clanish types of people!!!

and, also very interesting - i am not sure you talked about this - is the chart for scotland based off aries ingress 842 - position of uranus at 13 aries, very close to where it sits at present and of course where the jupiter trine from leo is presently moving into exactness with.. not sure how many use this chart for scotland. based on this chart, this uranus/jupiter trine would seem to support more of a willingness to adopt 'independence'.. we will see soon enough!

see campions 2004 book of world horoscopes page 334 for comments on the chart i share here below..

Image

adult image

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James_M wrote:
we had a referendum on proportional representation here in b.c. and the gov't decided they would make the bar line 60/40 in order to pass it.. this is the state of dumbocracy here on the west coast of canada provincially speaking.. funny thing - harper was all for proportional representation until he got into power too! we can dream about democracy, but it is heartening to see the concept of 50% being the line dividing a yes or a no, as opposed to 60/40 - thanks gordon campbell(previous premier for b.c. who came up with the 60/40 concept), who is now some sort of ambassador for canada in gb - harper gave him the perk! sorry but i had to get that off my chest thinking about this!
I think Canada provides an interesting analogy to the Scottish referendum. Not British Columbia though but rather the previous referendums held in Quebec. In both those referendums Quebec was voting whether to leave the Canadian federation and become an independent state.

The first Quebec referendum in 1980 was 60% No 40% Yes but in their 2nd referendum in 1995 the result was almost a dead heat with the No campaign no winning by only 1/2 percent! For a long time the No campaign in Scotland (Better Together)was 60-40% or more ahead in the polls but that lead has evaporated over the last few month and especially over the last couple of months. The interesting thing is that we already seem close to the situation in Quebec in 1995 here in Scotland on our first referendum.

Here in Scotland the no campaign have run an exceptionally negative campaign trying to instil fear in people over issues like currency, pensions , jobs etc. Its the same poor strategy used in most of the Quebecan 1995 referendum and used by Scottish Labour party against the SNP in the Scottish Parliament elections of 2011. They seem to have learned nothing. The alarm bells only really started ringing in London 10 days ago when the polls showed the Yes campaign were ahead for the very first time in on 51%. This is what it took to finally wake up the UK political establishment in London out of their slumber.

Hence the desperate attempts of all the mainstream UK leaders to campaign in Scotland the last week with a more positive message. It might just pull things back from the brink. Again this has analogies to Quebec in 1995. Considering the no vote has the UK government, all of the main Westminster parties , most of the funding and the Media on its side you would think it would be easy for them.
Last edited by Mark on Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

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James_M wrote:
i am not sure you talked about this - is the chart for scotland based off aries ingress 842 - position of uranus at 13 aries, very close to where it sits at present and of course where the jupiter trine from leo is presently moving into exactness with.. not sure how many use this chart for scotland. based on this chart, this uranus/jupiter trine would seem to support more of a willingness to adopt 'independence'.. we will see soon enough!

see campions 2004 book of world horoscopes page 334 for comments on the chart i share here below..
I dont regard this chart proposal of Nicholas Campion as that useful myself for numerous reasons. Its not just the use of an ingress chart. Many historians no longer consider this as the the real beginning of the Kingdom of Alba (United Kingdom of Scots and Picts). Indeed many question the historical authenticity of this King. It relies on accepting a rather questionable annal. In his recent History of Scotland for example the historian Neil Oliver described the notion that Kenneth MacAlpin unified the Kingdoms of Scots and Picts as a romantic historical myth of later annals. Even if we accept this King as the first King of Alba (which I dont) there is no historical certainty about what year in the 840s he became King. Most historians now consider that the union of Scota and Picts seems to have come a generation later.

I note that Dharmaruci was using this chart but has abandoned it in his most recent piece on Scotland where he utilises the UK 1922 chart.

I have instead written in my article about charts for the accession of Malcolm II (1005) and the Declaration of Arbroath (1320).

I am convinced the Scottish chart has Cancer rising with Aries on the 10th/MC. Once the dust has settled on the referendum I will open a thread on my research into a Scottish national chart.
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

70
Scotland votes 'No' to leaving the Union with Britain

Congratulations, Mark, upon the success of your work and study on the referrendum and where I might remark that your astrology actually took you away from your political convictions or inclinations, which leaned to the 'Yes' side, and that isn't easy to weather when passing judgement on matters like this.

Both personally and astrologically I do not mind admitting I leaned towards the 'Yes' side, but I still primarily believe that the astrology indicated the issue, problem and crises; the increase of momentum and the valid question of whether Scotland would leave the union with the UK or not. Indeed there has been the sense of a historical occasion. The outfall might be an example of how astrology could be used to detect and debate such a problem without matters do not have to conclude and manifest in the most dire fashion.

Imagine if the question were to be fought out in the fashion of previous centuries. In fact, both the vote and its result is probably a victory for democracy, for all parties and segments of the United Kingdom, its government and beyond. It also demonstrates that the democratic principle can and should be given a fair chance under all circumstances. If I were to compare with anything, it would have to be the fair trial the Norwegians offered Anders Behring Breivik after bombing the Norwegian government building and being responsible for the deaths of over 70 innocent people. Important fundamental principles of the civil juridicial system were put to test and guarded.

The vote of about 45% Yes and 55% No is clear enough. In a small country with a population of only 4 million people, it only takes 200.000 people to change their mind for the vote to go the other way, but maybe it was good that the result was beyond doubt rather than 51% Yes and 49% No.

Either way you look at the 'No' vote, remaining within the Union, I think everyone are winners. Scotland have won a lot through receiving many vows that powers will be moved to Scottish regional administration, and the 'No' side may not in fact have won the vote if Cameron had not conceded as much as he did towards the end of the campaign.

I think this election made a lot of sense and it will probably be good for not only the union, but tourism all over the UK and foreigners will open up their eyes for other details of Britain rather than the centering on London. It is as if politicians stopped up for a while and paid attention to matters that actually matter, and this has to do with the voice and opinion of the people.

Congratulations again for getting it right! :) :'
Last edited by Andrew Bevan on Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.astronor.com

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Andrew Bevan wrote:
I think this election made a lot of sense and it will probably be good for not only the union, but tourism all over the UK and foreigners will open up their eyes for other details of Britain rather than the centering on London. '
That comment suddenly made me think how our world is changing, and factors like the internet, Skype conferencing and intstant communication, and maybe in the future better physical transportation systems, could render geographical priorities no longer important.

Astrologically, the UK chart and the charts of many European countries, including that of Scotland, seem to emphasise that 8 or 9 degrees of the Cardinal signs, which are being transited by Pluto and Uranus at the moment. I wonder how we will interpret what is happening when we look back a few decades from now?

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kudos mark on getting the direction of the vote correct! i liked what marjorie orr had to say about alex salmonds surprise resignation which i have quoted below.. i wonder how much of this had to do with the fear around finances and pension plans etc? i guess we will never know, but i thought this article on the issue of financial independence was interesting..http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=28716

i also thought it fascinating reading a breakdown on those voting yes or no based on whether they were male or female... at any rate, i will have to take a closer look at salmonds chart when i get a chance and thank you again for all your astro work mark.




"Alex Salmond - sudden departure From: Marjorie. (19 Sep 2014 17:15):
Alex Salmond has surprisingly announced his resignation as leader of the SNP and as First Minister after losing the referendum for independence.
That is at least clear from the astrology of his First Minister Term chart, 16 May 2007. The Sun square Saturn on that chart has closed by Solar Arc to exact and tr Saturn will be opposition the Term Sun in November when he sees he will go. Less so on his personal chart. 31 Dec 1954 4.30pm Linlithgow, Scotland.
I've been puzzling over his chart all week wondering how one man could have nearly brought 300 years of history to an end. Without him - and he's undoubtedly a great orator and a shrewd politician - this campaign would never have been fought at all, never mind producing an amazingly high turnout and 45% Yes vote.
He has a Water Grand Trine of Mars Moon (MC) in Pisces trine Uranus Jupiter Ascendant in Cancer trine Saturn Venus in Scorpio. Water Grand Trine individuals are creative, healing for others, very private and self protective, can be escapist, can have an exaggerated need for dependency and general mother (Tierney). They are extremely emotionally sensitive and need periods of quiet to re-centre. So he's more vulnerable than his bombastic confidence suggests.
What might be a pointer is his wife Moira, always a background figure, who is 17 years older than him, born 9 Aug 1937. He married in his late 20s when she was in her early 40s. She's been a tremendous support to him with her super-confident Jupiter falling almost exactly on his Descendant and her well organised Saturn in his 10th. Her chart has a grounded, practical Earth Grand Trine of Uranus trine Jupiter trine Mercury Neptune (Moon) in Virgo - so she provides the ballast and anchoring he sometimes lacks. Maybe it's her turn now or perhaps she just needs more of his time in looking after her.
He won't disappear for ever. His career pattern from the past tends to be erratic and he's a man easily bored with trivia and small town politics. He need a big stage.