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This announcement comes within a day of the Vernal equinox. Mars in Aries (Great Britain) is running for Uranus at the same time as s cycle is cycle is coming to end under the combustion of the Sun. The Sun is in Aries, but the Moon is in Cancer, Scotland.

All credit to Mark, who started this thread and put so much hard work and effort in introducing us to the topic and following it through. :'
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As I demonstrated here some time ago the charts with the sun at 15:00:00 Aquarius - corresponding to the Chinese New Year (solar calendar) - will yield an insight into the forthcoming year. I called these charts "Octilograms". The charts based on 15:00:00 TAU / LEO / SCO will give additional information.
The solar Vernal Ingress may yield concrete details, but the Sun at 15 AQU
obviously provides the fundamental energies.

The chart above is for London, next to it the Lunar for the time of the Scottish vote on independence.
With MO/UR at DC a possible splitting of national unity will be in the centre
of public awareness and discussion.
However, with JU conj. CAN-MC it seems probable that national unity will be secured. VE/PLU conj IC - a certain pressure put on the voters cannot be ruled out (?).
LL
Non coerceri maximo, contineri minimo divinum est.

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Hi Lunlumo,

Good to see you back! I always enjoy reading your posts here. However, your chart inserts/data seem to be distorting the size of the thread somewhat.

Just to explain my non-presence on this thread for so long I was invited to give a talk on this subject at UK Astrological Association Conference last September.

I am now writing an article on the subject for the UK Astrological Association Journal. This should appear in the early summer.

I felt I had to keep my personal research on this topic confidential until these commitments were out of the way.

However, there will be a flurry of posts on this topic by me once my article is out!

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

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Hi Mark - the AA journal likes to have exclusivity for a few months for the articles they publish, but afterwards, if you want me to publish on Skyscript, I'd be happy to do that.

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There are a few good points here, although the topic was initiated at Skyscript soon 3 years and it seems a pity that the members should not be able to discuss the topic further or that Mark should be quarentined almost until the issue is voted for and decided. The matter of Scottish independence is a running discussion and I wonder, upon discression, whether the two forums should be seen as two separate things.
http://www.astronor.com

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Sorry Mark for my oversizing here... I'll take care the next time.

Having just listened to a report on that issue (on the radio over here, Germany) I feel less "confident" (quotation marks meaning I'm neutral, of course..) The number of those wanting a separation has obviously markedly increased over the past months.
Moreover: The chart inserted above, when referred to Edinburgh, is not really different - Edinburgh and London having about the same geographical length.
I.e. JU exalted in CAN conj MC is found for Scotland as well.

I then remembered the UK-chart of April 12th, 1927, midnight - that you discussed.
The sec. progressions of that chart for the day of the vote (Sept. 18, 2014):
Image
A striking fact: AC/MC at first degrees cardinal signs - meaning one might have to thoroughly revise one's orientations (?).
SUN conj PLU / JU/UR conj
And UR tr will be at 15 CAN on the day of the voting, i.e. square SUN/PLU .
That will probably put a stress on the UK. The outcome might be a narrow one.
LL
Non coerceri maximo, contineri minimo divinum est.

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Andrew wrote:
There are a few good points here, although the topic was initiated at Skyscript soon 3 years and it seems a pity that the members should not be able to discuss the topic further or that Mark should be quarentined almost until the issue is voted for and decided. The matter of Scottish independence is a running discussion and I wonder, upon discression, whether the two forums should be seen as two separate things.
Hello Andrew,

I am not clear what you mean about 'two forums' here. The issue of whether my article eventually goes up up on Skyscript is a completely different matter to any ongoing discussion taking place on this thread. I do take your point that if/when it appears on Skyscript later its likely to be of purely historical interest. This is a hot topic until September and after that will be effectively 'yesterday's news'.

However, while I am not posting for a while there is absolutely nothing to stop others members discussing the issue here. I would encourage them to do so!

I do regret not being to able participate actively here for a few months. However, I came to the conclusion recently that the astrological community only seems to have respect for those that set their ideas out in writing. You can knock yourself with original research on threads here but this is seldom even noticed outside the small world of Skyscript members. That is undoubtably unfair but its the hard reality as I see it. As someone located outside the small coterie of UK astrology (focused on London and the south) I think this a good opportunity to get my mundane ideas out there to the wider astrological community.

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

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I'm glad to hear that; I've felt for a while that you should write more formally. Its important to get the balance right when investing energies in internet forums. I think the skyscript forum is great as a scratchboard for ideas, and valuable for allowing points to be refined by helpful contributions and constructive criticisms. But something important definitely needs formal publication, and you don't want your contributions here to detract from the time you need for that.

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While I in no way have put the most effort into following the details of this discussion, my personal take on the matter is that Scotland will go for independence due to the Pluto line in the chart posted on March 9. 2013 (among other things), but also adding the solar eclipse of October 23. 2014 as a possible significator. Venus disposes the Moon's South node and is entering cazimi (the Heart of the Sun) and this I interpret as may 'short-cut' or cause a reorganizing of the Crown.
Last edited by Andrew Bevan on Sun May 11, 2014 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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2014 aries ingress chart to edinburgh.

Image

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which leads us to the cancer ingress chart to edinburgh.

Image

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the election happens on sept 18th, so i think one would use the cancer ingress as the aries ingress doesn't have a fixed sign on the ascendant. i think that is how bonatti pursued mundane astrology as i understand it.

the cancer ingress has a fairly contentious vibe to it with mars/moon opposition across the 2nd/8th house. i suppose this pulls in pluto,uranus and the sun if you want to just use whole signs and outer planets. a power struggle of sorts seems to be implied in all of it. financial concerns the public might have over the thought of scottish independence might be implied in this opposition as well.

16 degree virgo rises in both charts. this is the degree of venus in the election date sept 18th. in both charts mercury is in a weakened state relative to the descendant ruler jupiter. i am not sure who is represented by which here.. powers that be are ascendant, opposition is descendant.. does this read as uk is represented by the ascendant but the scottish independence is represented by the descendant? mercury and jupiter rule the midheaven axis as well.. the moon applies to jupiter first before mercury in this 2014 cancer ingress chart.

here is the cancer ingress on a 45 degree wheel highlighting midpoints in the 8th or 16th harmonic. sun at the mercury/saturn midpoint - thoughts of separation, shrouded in the clouds of neptune.. this suggests there is a lot of uncertainty and lack of definition in what all of this means.. i suppose this is like reading tea leaves.. some might be better at it then others.. that is about as much as i can get off the chart below! the 45 degree wheel shows the 22.30 aspect as an opposition.. thus neptune at 7 mutable 33 is approx 22 1/2 degrees from 0 cardinal. mercury/saturn midpoint is 7 virgo 31, so same deal..

Image

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perhaps some others have some thoughts on how the cancer ingress tells us something about the upcoming election on scottish independence..

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James_M wrote:
in both charts. this is the degree of venus in the election date sept 18th. in both charts mercury is in a weakened state relative to the descendant ruler jupiter. i am not sure who is represented by which here.. powers that be are ascendant, opposition is descendant.. does this read as uk is represented by the ascendant but the scottish independence is represented by the descendant?
Hi James,

I have avoided discussing the ingress charts in my forthcoming article on Scotland in the UK Astrological Journal. Partly it was just a space issue. With two Scottish national charts, two UK charts, several nativities and an SNP party chart to look at I had enough on my plate.

Just to say in Ingress charts its normal to consider the ASC as representative of the people.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/ingresses.html

However, your confusion on who is represents the government in these charts is fully understandable. There is a Scottish government based in Edinburgh with devolved powers to legislate , raise taxes etc. So should it or the UK government be Lord 10?

Plus the charts located for Edinburgh and London are not that different. So if we choose the Scottish government for lord 10 in the Edinburgh chart it will also be representing the UK government in a London based chart!

For these reasons it probably makes most sense to assign Lord 10 to the UK government in both charts. The 4th house represents the government's political opponents. In this instance the Yes Campaign working towards independence at the forthcoming election. This campaign includes not just the Scottish National Party, but also the Scottish Green party, Scottish Socialist party, and some disaffected Labour party supporters. There are also pro-independence supporters not affiliated to any political party.

Another question is whether we should consider just the Aries ingress or the Cancer ingress too? Some traditional sources indicate when a cardinal sign rises in the Aries ingress we should look at all 4 ingress charts. With a mutable sign we should look at the Aries and Libra ingress only. While with a fixed sign rising at the Aries ingress only.

My personal experience tends to be somewhat at odds with this rather rigid outlook. I have found that each quarter is always worth studying. A good example of this was the ingress charts for the Australian Federal elections in 2010. Despite a fixed sign rising in the Aries ingress, the Cancer ingress prior to the election provided very useful supplementary information on the likely fate of the incumbent Labor Government.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5520

Unfortunately, I sought to predict that election outcome based on the Aries ingress alone. Nevertheless, that election taught me a valuable lesson.

James_M wrote:
16 degree Virgo rises in both charts. this is the degree of venus in the election date sept 18th.
Incidentally, the Full Moon prior to the Scottish Referendum is on 16 Virgo-Pisces so it sits right across the ASC-DESC angles of the ingress charts. Perfect symbolism for an issue that divides the people of Scotland.

Mark
Last edited by Mark on Wed May 14, 2014 7:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly