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Will Egyptian Protesters Succeed in Overthrowing the Governm

 
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gabkins



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Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:40 am    Post subject: Will Egyptian Protesters Succeed in Overthrowing the Governm Reply with quote

Here's an horary chart asking about whether protesters in Egypt would be successful. Below is a copy of what I've written about this chart at my blog: www.GabbyTurner.com/metaquizzical but I would be interested in what you all think of the chart as well.

The chart is available here: http://www.gabbyturner.com/egypt-protests-horary-chart.php in case I didn't put it in correctly below.





Political unrest is a constant, but a revolution is not, and we've been seeing a lot of the latter lately. I've been involved in social and economic justice activism for some time now, so I empathize with the Egyptian movement to oust dictator Mubarak in favor of a more democratic, economically and socially fair form of government. The other day I posed an horary astrology question, cast for Jan. 28, 2011 at 9:18 PM in Knoxville, TN (my own location at the time of casting the chart) asking if the protesters would be successful. The chart is an interesting one, indicating that yes, there will be a successful transition into a new and fair form of government. Read on for my delineation of this telling horary chart!

First of all, the rising sign of Virgo agrees with planetary hour ruler Mercury, the moon is not void of course, and there are no other reasons not to believe that this is a readable chart. The rising sign of the horary chart is 20°32' Virgo, the Sabian Symbol of which is "A Girl's Basketball Team." At first this symbol seemed strange to me, for many reasons, but among them is the fact that of all the coverage I've seen of these protests, the people marching in the streets seem to be comprised almost primarily of male protesters. (I've purposefully posted a picture above of women involved in the protests though, because it is very easy to miss/dismiss their impact). On another level, the revolutionary spirit of the movement happening in Egypt seems incongruous with the idea of a competitive sporting team. However, Lynda Hill's blog entry on this particular sabian symbol is enlightening, especially when we consider that these protests are primarily in support of providing food and basic needs for all Egyptians, which we can easily relate to the care-giving, nurturing behavior associated with femininity. Lynda Hill says of this symbol, "This degree talks about people teaming up; banding together and working together for a common goal," and she quotes Vince Lombardi with saying, "Individual commitment to a group effort - that is what makes a team work, a company work, a society work, a civilization work," which is definitely very relevant to what's happening in Egypt at the moment.
The Virgo ascendant means that the primary significator of the protesters is Mercury (with the moon of course as co-significator). This is very interesting because the ruler of the 10th house (which should signify the government/leadership of Egypt) is ALSO Mercury. I do think this in and of itself tells us a lot--it implies that the protesters have *already* taken control of the country, in effect. The Sabian symbol of this degree also supports this notion: "A Modern Cafeteria Displays An Abundance Of Food, Products Of Various Regions." I find this fascinating as the symbol for the Midheaven because the major complaint of the protesters has been lack of jobs/resources to meet the basic needs of the people. This Sabian symbol implies that the coming government in Egypt (it may take awhile to see what exactly that will look like) will succeed in providing fairly for the Egyptian people. There will be "an abundance of food" available for everyone who needs it. Lynda Hill, who has done some fascinating work on the Sabian symbols, also says that looking to the Sabian degree meaning following the current one can give us some information on upcoming events. The degree following the Midheaven degree is 21 Gemini, "A Tumultuous Labor Demonstration."
Again we can see here how the people of Egypt are themselves appearing on the Midheaven, showing us that this popular uprising will put the common people of Egypt in power over their country and in control of their own destinies.

In reading an horary chart, it is helpful to look at recent, separating aspects made by the significators as well as the applying aspects. Mercury is leaving a square to Saturn. Saturn here is on the cusp of the 2nd House, indicating government control of resources. Saturn also generally indicates leaders and people in positions of power, and its sabian symbol is "Two Men Placed Under Arrest," which may indicate an end to Mubarak's and his colleagues' power over Egypt. With Mercury leaving a square to Saturn, we see the initiating conflict between the protesters and Mubarak's regime. To give us a better, more thorough understanding of what all Saturn may represent, we can see that it rules the 5th House, which is also the 8th House from the Midheaven, meaning it can signify the wealth of Mubarak, the power of Mubarak, or the death of Mubarak. The Sabian symbol that follows the placement Saturn however is "A Gang Of Robbers In Hiding," which makes me think there are hidden, selfish/greedy forces that could come to power in the midst of the chaos of this revolution. I hope not, but this symbol shows it as a possible obstacle to altruistic reform.
The aspect that next applies in the chart is the Moon's upcoming sextile to Saturn. The moon is the co-significator of the protesters, and that is especially appropriate to the question at hand because the Moon also signifies the "common people" of a nation. The applying aspect here can indicate a.) bringing a "death" to Mubarak's rule of the country, or even bringing his actual physical death (though I think that is unlikely) b.) that the people will take control of the shared wealth of the country so that it can be redistributed. The Moon is also conjunct fixed star, Antares, which is one of the royal stars and has a positive, beneficent impact on the planet that it touches. It is also associated with violence, freedom from enslavement, and even assassination. The Sabian symbol for the moon's position is "In The Left Section Of An Archaic Temple, A Lamp Burns In A Container Shaped Like A Human Body." I said that Mubarak's physical death is unlikely (meaning I don't think that's ultimately what protesters want, they just want him removed from power) but his death is certainly possible and this sabian symbol does indicate its possibility. The following symbol is, "A Flag Turns Into An Eagle; The Eagle Into A Chanticleer Saluting The Dawn." In other words, the flag (symbolic of nationhood and reference for government) becomes the eagle (symbolic of freedom and transcendence), and then victory is trumpeted by the rooster saluting the "dawning" of a new government.

The entire reading of this horary is of course complicated in that both the protesters and their enemy (Mubarak) are represented by Mercury, but it is important to note the Sabian symbol of Mercury's position is "By Accepting Defeat Gracefully, A General Reveals Nobility Of Character." The people of Egypt do not seem likely to admit defeat at this point, so if anyone is to admit defeat, I think it will be Mubarak. I hope so, and I hope the transition to a new, fairer government will happen smoothly, although revolution is never easy, and so that's likely asking too much.
The "end of the matter" is indicated by the 4th from the 11th (11th indicating the "wish" of the protesters) is Libra, ruled by Venus. Venus is in the 4th house of country and home, of ancestral roots, in the sign of Sagittarius, sign of politics, philosophy, and freedom-seeking. Both Venus and Sagittarius are interested in fairness and justice. The Sabian symbol for Venus' position is a beautiful, serene one: "A Bluebird Perched On The Gate Of A Cottage." I've seen this same symbol written as "A Bluebird, a Sign of Good Luck and Happiness, is Standing at The Door of The House."

There is more that could be said about this horary chart and its meanings, but I'm going to leave it there. I hope the protestors (most of whom seem to be genuinely altruistic and humanitarian in their approach) do get their wish to create a better world for Egypt. I hope in Egypt we soon find a new model of true, just, and fair democracy that works in the best interests of the people and the Earth.
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think political horaries like this are problematic for a number of reasons. Firstly, assigning house rulers and secondly the frequent partisanship of the questioner. I well remember the competing horary charts for the last US presidential election with several charts (according to the posters) clearly showing Mcain would win!

More fundamentally, what is your relationship to this question? You are assuming you are one with the protestors and therefore they are Lord 1 too? That seems quite a big stretch to me. Traditionally, the government is indicated by the 10th and its opponents indicated by the 4th house. Although, Lilly did use the ascendant to indicate the will of the people too. One might also approach this like a competition chart with Lord 1 vs Lord 7.

Personally, I think you are relying far too heavily on Sabian symbols in your analysis. I dont use them myelf but even if I did things like fixed stars, parts, or sabian symbols should be the salt and pepper of a delineation not the main meal. Otherwise we get too distracted from the basic signification of astrology ie planets, signs, houses, aspects and reception.

Anyway, for anyone interested we are discussing the Egyptian situation over on the mundane forum. Its a lot harder work than casting one horary!

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5989

Mark
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Tanit



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Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Gabby!

I have only tried one horary similar to this on Prop 8, and I somehow managed to predict it properly for the most part. I assigned the 1st house as the current situation of Prop 8 being in effect and the 7th as the opposing side who wanted to over-turn it (which was the side that the astrologer was siding with, not the 1st), with the 10th as the ruling gov't or final say in the matter primarily.

Since the opposing side is the protestors, who want to over-turn the gov't and create a more democratic system, Jupiter in Aries would fit as a significator, especially since Jupiter is a natural significator for change, expansion, progress, justice, particularly in the 7th house and when essentially dignified by triplicity. Virgo rising, Mercury in Capricorn, being peregrine and square Saturn, would be a bit oppressive and black and white in point of view, especially since Saturn takes on the characteristics of the planets he aspects, so I would not give this to the protestors. I always try to make sure that the significators fit whatever they represent and they are seeking democracy and not more "pharoahs", so this is not Mercury in Capricorn. The protestors are angry and are standing up for themselves, so the Aries influence makes more sense than Capricorn to me. Capricorn is more controlled and is going to be more conventional and favor whatever the current gov't is vs. progress or change. Jupiter in Aries, a cardinal sign, is also conjunct Uranus and square Pluto, which again points to a want of change... quickly... and fighting against corruption (Jupiter-Pluto). Pisces ASC for protestors (turned ASC) might normally be submissive but Jupiter has moved into a commanding sign around the time that this all began.

Gemini on the MC would also show a two-party system and supposedly they are ruled by a president and prime minister.

So who will win... Will there be a removal? I don't think it shows a removal because that might be more clearly shown via Mercury being retro or combust, etc. soon. It is just applying VOC and so you'd sort of expect more of the same. I would still favor Jupiter above Mercury in causing some sort of progress or change because it is essentially and accidentally dignified and the only planet above the horizon here - you could literally only see this (traditional) planet in the night sky when you asked the question, so it is literally above everything here. Jupiter is very much a mitigating influence when it is angular, especially when Venus is also angular with it and the malefics are both succeedent and accidentally debilitated by being retro or combust. Mercury travels with the influence of the Saturn square and goes VOC until it sextiles Jupiter, and a L1 and L7 sextile would usually show some sort of agreement, especially since Mercury enters a better dignity upon the sign change and goes through combustion (recycles itself). So it seems like there is some agreement that change is necessary and that they will begin to work on change and Mercury will give its disposition to Jupiter, but does that mean it will happen right this second? I don't feel confident about that because normally you disregard aspects out of sign and it would more so point to something in the future.

Moon is actually besieged, so it seems that more trouble is going to happen before it reaches a better influence - Venus on the 4th cusp. More deaths may occur and struggle. Venus could be foreign influence in the matter (9th ruler in the 4th - foreigners on home soil and opposite the 10th) or some sort of alleviation to the situation. I'm not great at time factors, but most of the significators are cardinal, which is very rapid developments and instability, but the angles are mutuable and Moon is mutable but cadent, so I am a bit conflicted. It seems to be prolonged more so by the Moon and the Moon-Saturn connection in particular. This could take years even?

I am by no means an expert on this though, just stating a few things I noticed. I hope for their sake that the situation will improve very soon. I know that it is very dangerous right now, and one of my siblings has a coworker with family out there who he is worrying about because their law enforcement is very much chaotic or non-existent (Mars combust?).
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Tanit



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Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jupiter also rules the house that opposes the 10th, so I think it is more likely a good representation of the protestors here.
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Tanit,

Nice analysis. Thumbs up

I agree that in looking for signification the meaning of the planets needs to be considered so Jupiter is the natural choice here. Its rulership of both the 4th and 7th adds to that view. I have already pointed out on the mundane forum that Jupiter has particular signification for Egypt due to previous ingress and eclipse charts. The protests actually seem to have coincided with the entry of Jupiter into Aries.

Quote:
Mercury travels with the influence of the Saturn square and goes VOC until it sextiles Jupiter, and a L1 and L7 sextile would usually show some sort of agreement, especially since Mercury enters a better dignity upon the sign change and goes through combustion (recycles itself).


My horary is rusty but Mercury is currently void in this chart right? I take on board the Mercury's separating aspect to Saturn.
However, Mercury doesn't appear to be applying to aspect any other planets at present by fixed orbs. Jupiter is within moeity orb of a square to Venus. However, by fixed orb Venus is not yet within aspectual orb to Jupiter.

The void period of Mercury could well represent the paralysis of the Egyptian leadership to respond adequately to the crisis. Still, as you suggest Mercury will soon be within orb of a sextile to Jupiter which looks more promising. We also have the Moon applying by dexter sextile to Saturn.

Quote:
Venus could be foreign influence in the matter (9th ruler in the 4th - foreigners on home soil and opposite the 10th) or some sort of alleviation to the situation.


I think you are probably right. Especially the USA which is effectively the banker for the Egyptian regime (Venus is Lord 2)

Incidentally, the Moon apart from being disposited by Jupiter in Aries, is also close to the martial fixed star Antares. This star has a pugnacious, feisty reputation which seems to pick up the uncompromising mood for change at any cost amongst the public.

I dont rule out the possibility that horary can be used for political questions. For example, I assume the 'prop 8' you refer to was a state referendum where you were a local voter with a keen interest in outcome? I have asked a similar kind of question myself. I have tended to use a Lord 1 vs Lord 7 approach in such instances. The issue still remains though how we describe the querant's relationship to such questions in the chart? Especially, when the querant has no direct relationship to the issue at hand. In every other type of horary we usually need to describe the querant's relationship to the the quesited. I have a problem here simply assigning the querant to the issue at hand ie Lord 1 ( or Lord 7) in every instance. What we have had to do in this chart to make it work is to go back to basic planetary signification (always desirable) and use essentially mundane rules to decide house signification. Philosophically, I do think horary can still often work as a divinatory exercise in this way. However, when the querant is quite disconnected to the question it makes it more difficult to justify and more subjective than normal.

Anyway, I dont mean to be ornery about this. I know people just come to read charts here not to raise objections about methodology. This whole point has made me interested in seeing how Lilly approached such issues so I am going to check out Christian Astrology for a better understanding of the whole issue.

Mark
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cor scorpii



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Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, all Smile

I assume Egypt represents a foreign country for Gabkins, (actually for any of us not living there!) so I would search for it in the 9th, its ruler(s) in the derived 10th(radical 6th) and the opposition to it in the radical 12th.

The Moon's position on Antares speaks about violence, protests, bloodshed, signifies a 'turning point' or at least a general desire for it.
Being one of the royal fixed stars of primary importance, it denotes that 'Egyptian issue' is going to have strong and lasting impact worldwide. Strong martial energy is also indicated by its separating aspect with Mars.
I take the Moon in its waning phase to signify one whole cycle coming to an end and as a pretty reliable indicator Mubarak will leave office.
Its application without reception with retrograde Saturn, representing Mubarak, signifies some sort of an agreement reached, but it will not actually yield results not can it hold because a retrograde planet is unable to perform in a positive manner.
Nocturnal Saturn is especially nasty.
The protesters are signified by the Sun and its conjunction with Mars in a fixed, human sign noted for its rebellious nature perfectly describes them and they aren't going anywhere - they will certainly show more stubbornness and resolution than Mubarak, who is represented by a plant in a cardinal sign.
I also think this conjuction with Mars aptly describes the army joining the people - Mars(the natural ruler of the army) is not going to stick around Mubarak in the end, they will eventually desert him because Saturn is harming Mars, being in its detriment.

Although it may seem that Mubarak has the situation under control, because the Sun is in his domicile and triplicty, I don't think he can actually use his nominal power because Saturn is ill disposed to run his own affairs.
The Sun will also eventually reach Saturn per trine, but again, retrograde planet isn't going to be able to fulfill the task handed down to him as symbolized by the Sun's applicaton. Moreover, the Sun is likely to reject whatever comes to him from this contact because Saturn is placed in the sign of its fall - hence harmful for the Sun.

Common signs on the angles indicate many shifts, ups and downs, changeability and uncertainty - the same is indicated by the Moon. This will go on for some time.
The general mood of the people is also feeding itself upon the martial(again!) commanding nature of Aries, as signified by Jupiter's position(the Moon's dispositor) in this fiery, cardinal sign which naturally symbolizes new beginnings and undertakings, in the 7th by division. Change has to happen now, no delays are permitted!

So to conclude, I think they are going to succeed Thumbs up

Goran


Last edited by cor scorpii on Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I assume Egypt represents a foreign country for Gabkins, (actually for any of us not living there!) so I would search for it in the 9th, its ruler(s) in the derived 10th(radical 6th) and the opposition to it in the radical 12th.


Hi Goran,

That seems a logical approach which I am comfortable with. I will take a look at the derived chart later. Thanks for your input.

Mark
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cor scorpii



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Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just one more thing I forgot to mention in my previous post - Saturn is disposed by Venus in the 4th, a house signifying the end of the matter, having strong association with death/grave. Of course, I don't take this to mean he will actually die in the process, but this may well be one more indicator of his presidency coming to an end.

Goran
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gabkins



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Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey all!

Thank you for your input. I'd seen other people use the first to locate the significator when asking a question on behalf of another entity, so that's the intention I had set when making this chart, but I do think Tanit and Mark have made good points about the significator needing to make sense (i.e., Mercury in Cap does not seem like a group of anti-government protesters).

I like using 10th for Mubarak's administration and 4th (7th from 10th) for the protesters who want him overthrown.

I think this chart is valid, whether a big political question or not. I do have a personal stake in this as a social/economic justice activist in solidarity with the protesters in Egypt. We are all affected by what's happening in Egypt, like multiple people have said, this is occurring in tandem with the Jupiter ingress into Aries, and Uranus' ingress will follow soon enough. All of us are affected by those transits and the changes that come from them.

That said, Jupiter in Aries in the 7th as primary sig for the protesters makes a LOT of sense. It is in the 10th from the 10th, which also does show how much power they have over Mubarak right now! Smile

As I noted in my original post, and as others have noted, the conjunction of the Moon and Antares makes this chart also seem very valid. That is definitely the energy of a popular uprising! Smile

The END of Mubarak's regime is 4th from 10th, which again shows Mercury as the sig. And although I probably did get too carried away with sabian symbols before, if we see Mercury as representing Mubarak's regime, then the sabian symbol of a leader stepping down gracefully is VERY pertinent, especially if Mercury also symbolizes the "end of the matter" of Mubarak's regime.

Mercury void of course also indicates instability for Mubarak, right? Jupiter is not applying to any aspects, but at least it's not void of course. Like Tanit said, this change will probably take a long time.

Someone here associated Mars with the Egyptian army, which also makes sense to me. Mars rules the 6th from the 10th (Mubarak's army), even though they haven't been acting as such lately. The fact that the Moon recently sextiled Mars (the army) shows in the way the army has been acting favorably to the protesters.

I think the Sun might represent a charismatic leader who has yet to become known. Right now this is a popular uprising not led by any specific group or party, but there will eventually be someone taking the lead. The Sun with Mars in Aquarius does seem to indicate a possible future leader, and also recently was in sextile with the Moon. The Sun and Mars are also in the 8th house from the 10th (the death or end of Mubarak's regime).

The Moon is in the turned 12th of the protesters. There is still secretive work going on. PoF is in Scorpio, also in the protesters' turned 12th. Their power and resources are secret. Scorpio does wield a lot of power though. Again, going back to the sabian symbols, the symbol for the PoF is "a parrot repeats a conversation he has heard." Underground, secretive communication? Instructions being sent/distributed secretly? On CNN I recently saw protesters allowing reporters into their meeting (not to cover the actual meeting ,but to talk about the fact that they were happening). Surely that are many such meetings going on right now. There is also instructive literature being distributed (saw a scan of one online) explaining to people how to take over government buildings, etc.

Jupiter was recently in secretive Pisces, now in forceful Aries. Moon is in secretive turned 12th, will soon be in the turned first.

What is most worrisome to me is the Sun/Mars applying to Saturn in Libra. Saturn is in the sign of Sun's fall and Mars' detriment? What does this mean? Saturn rules the 2nd and 3rd of the protesters and the 8th and 9th of Mubarak's regime. A neighboring country (3rd=neighbors) that is the enemy (turned 7th)of Mubarak? It is currently in the protesters 11th house of friendship but is backing into their 10th house. Again, the sabian symbols here are pertinent. Its current symbol is "two men placed under arrest."

When it reaches the turned 10th of the protesters (their new government?) it is symbolized as "After A Storm A Boat Landing Stands In Need Of Reconstruction." Sounds like a new government taking over?

Whatever Saturn is, it is retrograde and moving very slowly. Moon will aspect it first, then Sun/Mars, then Mercury (though Mercury will have to change signs and houses to do so and the other planets certainly beat it to the punch).


I think there is still a lot up in the air. What I do think is clear from this chart is that Mubarak will not continue to have power over Egypt. The people will not take his bribes or superficial administrative changes as real change.

Sun/Mars and Saturn frighten me. Sun/mars are buddies, coming together from 14-18 degrees Aquarius. Again, a heavy reliance on the sabian symbols from me, but they are SO pertinent to this chart! Read the symbols these two will be traversing together:

14-15 deg Aquarius

Two Lovebirds Sitting On A Fence And Singing Happily

15-16 deg Aquarius

A Big Businessman At His Desk

16-17 deg Aquarius

A Watchdog Stands Guard, Protecting His Master And His Possessions

17-18 deg Aquarius

A Man's Secret Motives Are Being Publicly Unmasked


We'll see. Looking at the chart this new way is certainly less hopeful than how I was looking at if before.
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gabkins



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Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, Sun and Mars (if they are indeed an upcoming revolutionary leader and the current army) are very fond of Jupiter. The Sun exalts them. I guess Mars just gives face to them though since this is a night chart... but still, Sun exalting Jupiter does support my idea that this may be a charismatic leader.

Sun is in detriment in Aquarius though, and Mars just has term... so success seems not to come easily if at all.

Perhaps that will be an attempted revolutionary leader who will not succeed.

Also, if Saturn does indicate a new government, its placement in Libra does not hurt either Jupiter or the Moon.

Mercury's (Mubarak's) sign of Capricorn actually poses more of a threat to Jupiter/Moon, but Mercury itself is not very strong in Capricorn, so again, seems not much of a threat.

Also, Jupiter is very strong and may not need Sun/Mars anyway, and its co-sig the Moon gets great help from Antares.

The 4th from the turned 11th (the end of the protesters' wish) is signified by Venus in Sagittarius in the 4th. Venus is in wide orb of applying to aspect Jupiter, and it will be the next planet Moon conjuncts (though aspect is out of orb and Moon will have to leave the turned 12th of secrecy and enter the turned 1st to get to it. They will achieve victory, but it will be hard-won?

Venus is separating from both Saturn and Sun/Mars.

It's a lot to digest. I think the popular uprising will be successful, but there will be some upsets and major difficulties along the way.
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Maxz



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Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gabkins wrote:

A neighboring country (3rd=neighbors) that is the enemy (turned 7th)of Mubarak? It is currently in the protesters 11th house of friendship but is backing into their 10th house. Again, the sabian symbols here are pertinent. Its current symbol is "two men placed under arrest."


Maybe Isreal. Interesting to see what they do now too.
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cor scorpii



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Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think this chart is valid, whether a big political question or not. I do have a personal stake in this as a social/economic justice activist in solidarity with the protesters in Egypt. We are all affected by what's happening in Egypt, like multiple people have said, this is occurring in tandem with the Jupiter ingress into Aries, and Uranus' ingress will follow soon enough. All of us are affected by those transits and the changes that come from them.


The validity of the chart is not what I'm questioning here, it's this statement that it concerns all of us hence we identify ourselves with the people of Egypt and assign the 10th to Mubarak.
If the chart may be analyzed this way, how should we ever be able to differentiate between something happening in our own country(really having the power to affect us directly) from occurrences like these, happening in some distant, foreign land?
After all, that's one of the reasons we have a house like the 9th.
How can we know how much/whether the turmoil in Egypt is going to affect us personally in order to assign the protesters to the 1st and identify ourselves with them?
What if the 'Muslim Brotherhood' takes over(eventually) - I don't think we'd want to have anything in common with this bunch of guys.
After all, the protesters were heard saying Mubarak and his newly appointed vice president Omar Suleiman were 'American servants', demanding them to leave office at once?

It seems these protests do express many anti-American, anti-Israeli sentiments http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=206130
and "Muslim brotherhood" isn't some minor political group in Egypt - in fact, they're the major oppositional force;hence many protesters are likely to follow their cause. "Muslim brotherhood" spawned Hamas terrorist organization in Gaza strip, after all http://www.debka.com/article/20612/

How do we know that by identifying ourselves with the protesters we 'share' the same goal? We don't really know what's going to be born out of this in the end, so it's best to leave it to them and draw a clear line of differentiation between us and them in the 9th.
Moreover,Taurus is on the cusp of the 9th, representing Egypt, ruled by Venus which is the natural ruler of the 'people of the doctrine of Islam', that is, of their 'manners and nature', as was excellently explained by Steven in one of his posts on mundane forum.

Goran
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gabkins



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Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cor scorpii,

Mark had questioned the validity of asking a political question, so that was in reference to what he had said about that.

I do identify with the peoples' uprising (their complaints and their goals) in Egypt, as I already said. I don't know that much about the Muslim Brotherhood, but I was asking about the protesters in general, which is not being lead by any specific ideological group (hence "popular" uprising).

I don't know what you mean about how "we" are to see ourselves affected here. I was the person asking the question, and I did not intend to find myself or my country in the chart. That was not part of my question. If you are wanting to know if or how you will be personally affected by what's happening in Egypt, you could pose an horary question asking that though.

Maybe I could use the 9th to signify Egypt itself, and the 10th from the 9th to show Mubarak (Saturn in Libra retro) and the protesters signified by the sign ruler of the opposite house (Sun conj. Mars in Aquarius) and in some ways that makes sense, but it shows Mubarak as having much more strength than the protesters, which just doesn't seem to be true. It always would have the protesters in Mubarak's 12th house, but they are openly protesting in the streets.

Anyway, eventually we will know for sure what happens in Egypt, and then perhaps we could look back at the chart and see the best way of reading it.
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Gabby
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