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Skyscript Astrology Forum

Football Matches With Same KO Time

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Joined: 03 Oct 2008
Posts: 539
Location: UK

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:20 pm    Post subject: Football Matches With Same KO Time Reply with quote

Why is it so difficult to predict football match results when they kick-off at the same time? There has been some success in predicting matches that have a unique start time, but much less with, for example, the UK Saturday 3pm matches. These often have different results but similar charts, and that is only looking at the Premier League. If we include the lower leagues there is a wide range of scores and Home, Draw, Away results. So the first question has to be, if they have the same KO time, why are the results different?

There are two (main) factors that influence the result of a match: the relative strength/league position of the two teams, and the astrology. Looking at the 3pm matches, the main influence is the relative strength: the favourite usually wins. However, there are surprises, and draws are difficult to predict from relative strength.

I have observed with individually timed matches that where there is a clear favourite (a team placed significantly higher than their opponent in the league) the astrology usually confirms the favourite. In some way, the astrology and the strength of the teams go hand-in-hand. When they contradict, the relative strength usually (but not always) wins over the astrology.

So, what should we do with matches kicking-off at the same time? Sometime different locations produce different signs on the angles (and so different rulers). Sometimes the different locations give different house placements for the rulers, and so different strengths. Alternatively, people have suggested using the colours associated with the teams: Mars (red) for Manchester United or Arsenal, Venus (light blue) for Manchester City, Jupiter (blue) for Chelsea, etc.

Are matches at the same time just not really predictable, or is there a reliable method for predicting them? What do people think?
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Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 687

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think any matches, whether they are claimed to be stand-alone or are part of a group of matches with identical charts, are able to be predicted with just the start time of the match. If you look back through the sources, electional charts were always meant to be set with the nativity in mind. The implications of being able to choose winners without reference to the broader cycles of the teams that their founding chart or some other higher level chart would show suggests a completely determined universe. I am not adverse to that idea, but in my experience in working with solar revolutions, for instance, I have seen that without reference to the nativity, there are some planets active at that moment for that person that would be missed if we just focus on the solar revolution's stand-out planets. In fact, mostly everything in the revolution is meaningless without reference to time-lords that are derived from the nativity. It is even said that nativities are, at times, submissive to mundane charts like the Aries ingress. It is not inconceivable that the same applies to football teams.
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Janis Valkovskis

Joined: 03 Jun 2010
Posts: 526

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My opinion is that it is possible to predict (with reasonable success) with just the start time of matches, having almost identical charts. 5-6 years ago, I started with considering the strength of ruler of hour, part of fortune, its ruler, etc. and their various interconnections. They sometimes worked but sometimes failed and I had to reintroduce new laws to make the old ones work ad finitum. Then, in addition, I started experimenting with the 12th parts of ASC and POF. They produced slightly better results but still inconsistent.

I remember that once Konrad mentioned that the end of any inception is signified by the 4th house and that for such a purpose he uses the 12th part of the IC degree. I started experimenting with the 12 th part of the IC degree and found that it works if combined with my previous observations.

I put the principal emphasises in which sign, house and bounds falls the 12 part of IC degree. I use tropical zodiac, Placidus cusps and Ptolemy's bounds (I had been experimenting with both Ptolemy's and Egyptian terms but found that Ptolemy's produce more consistent rules).

Then I judge whether the significator (as per colours) aspects the 12 th part of the IC degree or is found aversion (the worst is the 8th position), its reception with the bounds ruler of the IC degree, the condition of the bounds ruler (benefic, malefic, which house it rules in the figure), aspects cast within the bounds (kind of aspects) (the closer to partile to the exact degree of the 12th part the stronger its effect), etc. I use different sets of rules for favourites, underdogs, home team favourites, home team underdogs, away favourites and away underdogs).

Konrad suggested that there are broader cycles. I agree but they are not based on foundation charts but rather on event charts introducing good or bad streaks or certain patterns in head/head statistics. Minor cycles are governed by the Moon (more often than not a streak changes with a cardinal moon (provided its dispositor is not retrograde), in particular if the Moon also rules the hour; the hour ruler in a cardinal sign (provided its dispositor is not retrograde), greater cycles, in my opinion, are connected with eclipses and planetary periods (minor years or the same amount expressed in months). My guess is that it is the lord of hour in a higher level chart is the one which periods we should count.

Of course, astrology is only part of the judgement. The other is common sense (relative strength).
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Joined: 03 Oct 2008
Posts: 539
Location: UK

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to Konrad and Janis for their contributions. The different viewpoints are interesting.

Konrad: I suspect that a higher level chart, such as the natal chart, could be important in giving context for the event chart and providing important planets. The practical issue is that nativities are not available for most football clubs. Even where we have a day, there are almost no documented timed charts. Perhaps we could use other, shorter term, foundation charts. Possibilities for consideration (certainly not researched - just ideas): first match with a new manager, first match of a new season with exact KO time, move into a new home stadium. Open to other suggestions ...

Janis: your suggestions about colours associated with a team (which you have shared with us in the past) are ones I have researched, they do seem to help but I am not able to get consistent results from them. Your 12th part ideas are interesting. I think Konrad had done some work with this in the past. Using the 12th part of the IC is something I have not tried and will certainly look into.

Anyone else feel like contributing their thoughts? I hope we can get a few more people joining the discussion. Make contributing to the Sport and Speculation thread your New Year Resolution Smile
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Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 617
Location: Lancashire, England

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I try and avoid looking at matches starting at the same time, with near identical charts for all the games.
When I have looked, I've usually started with considering if the chart is suggesting things will go according to plan, or if it looks as if there could be unexpected events.
I haven't gone in to too much detail of then trying to pinpoint which game, or games will support the prevailing 'energy'!

The 2018 Russia World Cup provides games kicking off at the same time, that are so far away geographically that there are different rising signs for the individual matches!
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