How to deal with Mars Saturn Conjunction in 12th 1 by Thuban Hi All, A Mars Saturn conjunction this tight orb in 12th and as not enough in Leo, trines with neptune in 4th, is not so easy to get used to. This is my chart and I had several career changes in my life and not seem to build something enduring. I passed my first Saturn return and still couldnt catch the first train, I probably couldn't even find the station! I am an astrology student and I really think your point of view on this might guide me significantly. I read a lot about this specific position, weird enough I don't have trust issues with my father, I am not disabled physically- not yet thank God!-, and I have no experience in prisons. Mars and Saturn supposed to build ones life, and I am trying to be aware of my disabilities at this point. Do you think this 12th house position can be overcomed? If so how? I appreciate and welcome all opinions on this matter. Thank you very much for your consideration Quote Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:13 am
2 by aglaya ars and Saturn supposed to build ones life, and I am trying to be aware of my disabilities at this point. Hi, Thuban! I'm not sure if I've heard of this before but, with Saturn and Mars in a partile square from 1st to the 10th in my Natal chart, I'm pretty aware of how powerful their influence can be. In my case they're actually the only angular planets in the chart which gives them great accidental dignity. I'd actually expect a conjunction to be less stressful then a square but what is specific about this chart is the placement of the malefics in a cadent house. Now, although we always have to take the natural symbolism of the planets as well as the house in which they're positioned into account, I think that it is also very important to know where the planets are coming from. Do you always use whole house system of houses? According to that system, Saturn gets the rulerships over the 5th and 6th whilst Mars rules the 3rd and the 8th. Quote Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:31 pm
3 by Tanit I read a lot about this specific position, weird enough I don't have trust issues with my father, I am not disabled physically- not yet thank God!-, and I have no experience in prisons. Mars and Saturn supposed to build ones life, and I am trying to be aware of my disabilities at this point. Do you think this 12th house position can be overcomed? If so how? Perhaps I am too "modern," but I see the 12th as, among many other things, a psychological house, or part of the subconscious, and it is therefore a place where we might not recognize parts of ourself, suppress, or not fully understand. It can also be a house of seclusion, which is one of the reasons Bonatti mentions in his Anima Astrologiae that Mercury (I think he says in Aqu) in the 12th can show someone who is very good in the sciences and other subjects that require intensive study. Our own site author, Deb Houlding, has Mercury in Gemini in the 12th, and obviously her Mercury works quite well. Since Mars is naturally associated with things like our desires, sex drive, impulses, etc., Mars' energies can work in seclusion, be suppressed, etc. Saturn in psychological astrology, as this site states, can mean: where we encounter loss, frustration and failure, and the emotional pain that this entails. Its experience is usually hard and the value is often not recognised until Saturn's other quality, time, has been allowed to pass. http://www.skyscript.co.uk/astrology_saturn.html Fire Mars in a day chart can become more angry, frustrated, impulsive, self-defeating because the excess fire is destructive. But putting this into the 12th would more likely repress any of that so these feelings are not acted upon or possibly even recognized, or perhaps they work behind close doors or in secret via others or as self-undoing on your own part. Disregarding house rulerships, anyone with a Mars-Saturn conjunction might have more Saturnine control in their everyday actions and impulses without being in a cadent house, and then add on Neptune who also can confuse the natural impulses of Mars and the structures of Saturn. I know some say Neptune trines will make you have better instincts, but that isn't always the case because whatever Neptune touches can become clouded. So you can have someone who thinks about maneuvers more because of a Mars-Saturn link but that also has Neptune making your Martian desires less focused. Sometimes there is just a lot of focus on selflessness and idealism with the Neptune link, but from the 12th in the sign of Leo, it seems like there is a great need for this, and likely you especially want recognition of your efforts, but that you are unable to realize these efforts or make it manifest like you would hope (or you feel like others do not give you credit for your selfless actions, etc.). Going to traditional, Mars ruling the 3rd in the 12th with Saturn in detriment might point to issues with siblings (and/or neighbors or difficulties/accidents in traveling) more so than parental figures. Do you have strained relationships with them, were there any major sorrows or losses? Your 4th/10th rulers are pretty good. I have natal Saturn ruling the 7th/8th in the 3rd and my eldest sister and I are not close in any capacity (literally and figuratively - she is also 12 yrs older than me, so there is a large age gap) and I sometimes feel that she does not regard me at all (it is as if everything is a competition with her). Lilly says something about Saturn in the 3rd showing siblings who are cold-blooded. This can apply to a ruler as Saturn that is ill placed. Saturn also probably rules your 5th and 6th, so, clearly all of this could go towards romantic connections or children, which would be less likely to happen to your liking (do you have any kids?), or possibly health issues. Saturn ruling the 5th in the 12th could point to secretive affairs, unrequited love, great sorrow and loss. Saturn can also impact things like the skin and bones when it rules the 6th. I have Moon ruling the 1st in the 6th square Saturn, and I have a lot of skin sensitivities and dry skin. My Moon is fire, 6th ruler in fire and I have very high fevers (I used to get pneumonia a lot - Jupiter rules my 6th, he rules lungs). I know someone with a combust Saturn in Sag on his ASC (in the 12th but within orb) who has severe immunodeficiency issues but also skin sensitivities that are very bad (his skin is literally burnt by rashes, etc.). I would wonder about high fevers once and a while, especially with Mars involved. Quote Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:12 am
4 by Tanit I guess your post was mainly on how to "deal" with this placement. Since you are unlikely to be able to help anyone else working against you behind the scenes (if it is an enemy indication at all), I guess just recognizing any self-defeating patterns, such as not going after something because your instincts are uncertain about it or if you have internal conflicts. Hesitating or lingering on an issue that you need to make a choice on is likely to happen a lot, especially when dealing with a fixed sign, and you could miss out on opportunities in life because of this. Maybe seeking second opinions from people you trust. Sun-Neptune opp can also have unclear goals and the upbringing might have been the main issue - either not enough structure or too much so that you can't make decisions as easy on your own. Sometimes such people can also be drawn to the wrong people in their environment so you can be taken advantage of. You'd probably have more happiness in any sort of career where you can express the Neptune energies (a career that helps or benefits others or other creatures). Neptune influences your Sun/Mercury in the 10th also, so it seems rather important to you internally but also externally via your life goals. I'd try to get Neptune out (the arts, humanitarianism, etc.) rather than in because it leads to escapism especially. Quote Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:36 am
5 by Thuban Thank you all, for your comments, they've been so enlightening. Aglaya, yes I prefer whole sign houses generally, sounds more logical to me. I can pm you in detail if you like to know my reasons. Tanit, no issues i am aware of with siblings. I have a younger brother and we didnt have any problem yet. Romance..Yes none of them worked for me,"unrequitied love, great sorrow and loss" are all true, about health, I am somewhat prone to allergies specially skin. My skin turns red You are right about neptune career, all the usual ordinary jobs make me sick, I'll keep your advice in mind. Thank you so much for putting aside time to write about it, you helped a lot. Quote Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:04 pm