Lots combust?

1
I have a sinking feeling, so I'd like to get some feedback on this from a few other folks, who hopefully have some research that contradicts mine.

Client, a woman, with:

Venus at 25 Libra (conjunct Spica Virgo)
Lot of Women's Marriage (ASC + Venus - Saturn) at 27 Libra
Sun at 29 Libra

Is the lot basically shot because of combustion?

Re: Lots combust?

2
Olivia wrote:I have a sinking feeling, so I'd like to get some feedback on this from a few other folks, who hopefully have some research that contradicts mine.

Client, a woman, with:

Venus at 25 Libra (conjunct Spica Virgo)
Lot of Women's Marriage (ASC + Venus - Saturn) at 27 Libra
Sun at 29 Libra

Is the lot basically shot because of combustion?
I doubt it. Lots probably can't be combust because they are "cast out" which is why they are called lots. They are not on the planetary realm with the Sun where they can be burned so easily, but they are theoretically part of the realm of the daimons (earth bound spirits). You might detect a hint of Christian religion in this (demons were cast out from heaven) which is the same root word. Schmidt calls them personal tutelary deities which can sway one's actions one way or another. Note the language used in finding the lots always says "and then an equal amount from the ascendant" which is the earth bound point to which they are cast down to.
Curtis Manwaring
Zoidiasoft Technologies, LLC

3
The idea behind combustion is that a planet has no light because the Sun blots it out when it is within 8.5 degrees of the Sun. Therefore the planet is weakened (more contemporary view) or rendered powerless (old view). This of course begs the question of why a planet 30 degrees or more from the Sun has power in a day chart when the Sun renders it invisible.

The lots have no light of their own. They don't "do" anything, not in the way a planet does. Lots "are." They have no power to act. Therefore a lot being within 8.5 degrees of the Sun is neither empowered or rendered powerless or weakened. But if the lot's dispositor is combust, that might be a different matter.

7
Hello,

My opinion:
The Lots are not combust by being in the proximity of the Sun (whatever orb you use) for the same reason that a house is not combust just because the Sun is in it. In fact we don't usually say that the ascendant, Midheaven, etc. are combust.

9
We astrologers do seem to have an inordinate difficulty telling the difference between "active" tokens like planets, and points related to measurement, like houses, signs, lots and so on. Of course, the elephant in the room is that our representations of the "active" are really just tokens as well. Still I think it makes good sense to differentiate the measured from the measuring.

- Ed

10
Since the dispositor is combust and the Sun is in fall, I would advise to look the condition of the Exaltation ruler of the Lot and especially any other planet aspecting the Lot closely (by 3? at the most) and investigate if those can deliver what Venus can not.

That is, if you accept that Venus is combust despite being in domicile.
Paulo Felipe Noronha

11
I think people are conflating 2 different issues here. There is the issue of a planet being combust which is burning and then there is the issue of visibility which also has to do with how close it is to the Sun.

In most medieval texts there is a difference in range between being under the beams or "invisible" (usually 15) and being burned (usually 8 ) and this might have something to do with the difference. Theoretically a planet is doing several things and chief among them are providing testimony and witnessing. A lot is not quite an entity (like a theos), it is a bit like a disembodied spirit that was never a person. It doesn't have self awareness but it does have being. Planets are thought to have self awareness and therefore they can provide testimony and through sight they are able to witness. Lots do not have the power of sight so lots do not witness for other lots nor can they be a representative of a given house or an ambassador to others because they don't have self awareness. Lots are disembodied powers of the planets that have fallen to earth and their being is thought to be seen by other self aware entities so that they can be made manifest through incantation. However, a planet or a lot can be affected by visibility conditions and just as Olivia might be sitting towards the west at sunset in the glare, both planets and lots can become invisible. The lot is in the glare and Venus is not burned (because of the covered chariot concept), but Venus is also in the glare. This affects their ability to be seen and therefore it breaks down the testimony / witnessing that make things happen. Remember that these concepts were thought of during a time when magical incantation was enough to make something happen; speak it and it becomes so. In Genesis, it says that God told man to name all of the other animals in the field so that he could have dominion over them. This is part of the magical incantation idea and it is also why in Jewish tradition God's name is never spoken and the vowels are left out of YHVH, lest man to have dominion over God.

Venus can not see the lot through the glare but technically would not need to because a co-presence is not an "aspect" where the power of sight is involved. In other words your eyes can't pop out of your head so you can see yourself (you'd need a mirror), but planets in the same sign can "feel" each other. Venus would not need to provide testimony because being in her own places, she can effect from her own significations, but she still needs to know that its present in order to affect from her own significations. Some of this comes from Schmidt's ways of thinking about this subject, but he never put it together in quite this way.
Curtis Manwaring
Zoidiasoft Technologies, LLC

12
And putting all that into the context of a chart that belongs to a living, breathing person is the challenge of it all.

PFN - the exaltation ruler is no help (peregrine Saturn and not aspecting the lot, anyway). But there is a trine from the Moon/Fortuna conjunction on the MC, though the Moon doesn't have any rulership over it. And Spica Virgo, plus Arcturus right there.

It means something, I'm sure of that. Just what - that I haven't worked out yet.