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Oslo receives Astrological Clock

 
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4596
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:59 pm    Post subject: Oslo receives Astrological Clock Reply with quote

Oslo receives Astrological Clock

Sponsored and fronted by multi-millionaire Christian Ringnes, Oslo has been given an astrological clock. The clock was unveiled by the City Mayor, Fabian Stang, on October 20. 2010 with 12 astrologers from the Norwegian astrological community present and is decorating the wall of Karl Johansgate 3., the main street that runs through the middle of Oslo City and leads up to the Palace.


Photo: Wikipedia - Click for large size

The Clock has been designed by the artists Elena Engelsen and Per Ung, and weights about 1000kg. The astrological figures are made in bronze and the plates in the clock dial are covered with 22 carat gold. I can't quite see that the clock has any astronomical or astrological functions, but the signs light up in the dark and it is a pretty ornament and attraction that reminds of astrological traditions.

Source: Widipedia, Numedalsnett
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zoidsoft



Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 659
Location: Pulaski, NY

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like someone made the order of the signs backwards, which is odd for a clock with Virgo rising.
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Curtis Manwaring
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4596
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Looks like someone made the order of the signs backwards, which is odd for a clock with Virgo rising.

The numbers on the clock dial indicate the calendary months for when the Sun enters the various tropical signs. The clock lights up in the dark to illuminate the correct and current sign of the Sun. The golden plated dial and orange hue in the surronding signs is obviously a representation of the Sun.

At the least the clock has put astrology on the map in the midst of Oslo. It will be interesting to follow the discussion that may come as a result of the clock and see whatever doors that this may open. The challenge is to come up with new authentic, exciting and educational ideas. Smile
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
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Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curtis Manwaring wrote:
Looks like someone made the order of the signs backwards, which is odd for a clock with Virgo rising.

I don't entirely disagree with the point made by Curtis and can't but help feel frustrated about some of the compromises made in the designing of the clock. The objection being that the diurnal motion of the Sun and the annual motion of the Sun through the signs of the tropical zodiac corrupt one another. The artists have mixed the two systems and thought they were clever. It feels as if someone has shot themselves in the foot - or almost!

One way of making the system work is by holding the clock up in the sky facing north, and then alligning the centre of the clock dial with the Pole Star, Polaris. Then Aries is set at 3 o'clock in the East for the month of March. As the Sun moves to 6 o'clock for the month of June, the Sun is pulled Northwards in the Sky for the Summer solstice in Cancer. But then there is another inaccuracy because the Sun enters Aries on March 21. and not on March 1. To provide an accurate calendary representation of the motion of the Sun through the zodiac, the signs would have to be slightly offset in terms of the clock dial.

So while the Oslo clock might be a great tourist attraction and promotion of either general astrology or the reading of Sunsign columns, it seems to be a setback in terms of those technicalities that both astronomy and astrology are composed of. Confused
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Deb
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Joined: 11 Oct 2003
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Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like the artist has followed some traditional artwork which shows the constellations from the 'God's eye' view. This happens when the circle is reproduced as seen on globes. For example the ceiling relief of the Egyptian temple at Denderah will present this view when reproduced on paper.

Unfortunate, because we measure time by being on the outside looking up at the circles that form around us and the ecliptic is the main ring of reference for that. But it's pretty and I like the illumination of the signs (so 5 out of 10 for effort).
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4596
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is unfortunate to call it (the mentioned item) an 'astrological clock' because the only thing that happens is that the light changes once a month as the Sun moves from one tropical sign to the next. The chances of catching the change are about zero, unless you have another astrological time piece or an ephemeris that will tell you when this is going to happen.

Oslo Town Hall

Link: Wikipedia, or Town Hall: Oslo Town Hall

What I am going to do though, is reclaim this one for Astrology. It is found on the back of the Oslo Town Hall and all official sites say that it is an astronomical clock. The problem is that it should the Sun and Moon's movement through the tropical zodiac - hence it is an astrological clock and not astronomical!

It's about time they got it right!
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PaulParal



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
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Location: Czech Republic / Canada

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:10 am    Post subject: Most ridiculous astronomical clock Reply with quote

O.K. Letís open a competition for the most ridiculous astronomical clock. In my opinion, nothing can compete with a re-construction of Olomouc Orloj (Olomouc Astronomical Clock) after the World War II in (then) Czechoslovakia.

Originally, it was built sometimes between 1474 and 1519. It suffered greatly in the final days of the war. Fortunately, the great majority of the original clockwork remained and it was restored. Unfortunately, the reconstruction started already under the Communist government in power.

It was 1950í, the Cold War was in the full swing, so instead of saints, kings and mystical figures we have worker, various trade and proletariat figures on it. At noon: two blacksmiths ring their anvil, instead of bells. Then, when proletariat figures parade: a folk tune approved by The Politburo of The Party plays .There are even old communist holidays and days to remember (Stalinís death, for example) marked in red color on one of the dials. The opinion of today is not to restore it to its original design, but rather to preserve this monstrous devaluation of the original to remember times, which we should not forget. Needless to say: I would rather see the original.

Paul Paral

Before and after
http://www.orloj.eu/img/olomouc/f/olom_4_2008_oba.jpg

Proletariat figures on the Astronomical Clock
http://www.brianrose.com/journal/clock.jpg

Video of the Astronomical Clock
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTEj4knk2eo&feature=fvwrel
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4596
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I notice that after having initiated the discussion regarding the merits of the clock of Oslo City Hall, Wikipedia has re-written its definition on this subject.

Translated into English it now reads:
Quote:
'The term astronomical clock is not precise, but used to describe clocks and time pieces that in addition to showing the hours of the day also provide additional information of a more or less astronomical kind. This additional information can be that the clock shows the position of the Sun and Moon and the Moon's phases. The Sun's position in the ecliptic, sidereal time, the current starsign of the Zodiac or a rotating starmap. However, the description of a clock should not be used to describe one used at astronomical observatories. This is an 'ordinary', yet high-precision clock used for time only.'

I think the discussion can be taken further. If you go to the link below, you will notice that at the bottom of the page there is a reference to category: Astronomy, Astrology! Smile

Source: http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomisk_ur
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