Traditional Book List II

1
I'm going to try this again, but this time with a caveat. This is a thread concerning a suggested small library for beginning traditional astrologers. Pay particular attention to the last sentence. We're looking for suggestions regarding books, not suggestions of what doesn't belong here. Those remarks and remarks about particular authors will be deleted without explanation. I think this is a good topic and one that can be helpful.

This could go into the Books section, but I wish to limit it for the following reason. Traditional astrology, although expanding, is still a bit of a fringe element compared to the rest of the field. We've had an explosion of outstanding work done over the past 30 or so years and produced a group of outstanding astrologers, but we are still in the minority. That may always be so, but we can and should strive to improve our standing. I've been told that UAC is not planning on a traditional track next time around and last time they only had one, I believe. Traditional Astrology conferences are virtually unknown in the US. There is one going on in Australia right now, and I wish them well, but I wish we could do these things here, too.

The problem, as I see it is that we are made up of a group of largely self taught individuals. One needs a good deal of motivation to do that and without direction, the odds are long that the individual will succeed to any great extent. What I'm proposing is perhaps, step one.

We need a list of books for the beginning traditional astrologer. Let's posit the following: we have an astrologer at the advanced beginner or intermediate stage who has developed an interest in traditional astrology but needs direction. Let's limit ourselves to books that can be used to serve this purpose. Obviously some really important books won't make the list. That's OK this isn't a contest to see how many votes a particular old text receives. The purpose is education.

The books can be old or contemporary authors writing about the tradition. Mine is a mix. This is not a course curriculum so sequence is not all that important. If anyone wishes to put them in sequence that's fine, but it is not necessary. We're building a basic library.

My first list would include:

Tetrabiblos because it is the most influential astrology book ever written.

Something of Valens to see how it can be done and/or Paul of Alexander.

From there I'd move up to Hand's Night and Day, Planetary Sect in Astrology. This little booklet has a great deal of information in it - not just sect. I'd also toss in his pamphlet on Whole Sign Houses. Joe Crane's book, A Practical Guide to Traditional Astrology is also a worthy addition.

Back to the old guys I'd go to Ibn Ezra and maybe Al Biruni. Ibn Ezra might be the only medieval astrologer who could write well. He doesn't read like a modern, but he is sure easier to grasp than some of the others.

A "must" is The Astrologer's Guide which is a list of aphorisms from Bonatti and Cardan - translated by Coley and Edited by Lilly. This book is a gem and under-appreciated.

From here I'd jump to Lilly and Morin. Lilly of course gives us Christian Astrology. For Morin we can stick with Book 21 but I'd strongly urge adding Book 23 (Revolutions). Morin gives us some significant icon busting needed for a well rounded education.

So now astrology goes to sleep - wakes up and gives us: John Worsdale. There is a great deal of good astrology in Celestial Philosophy and a great deal of knowledge is needed to understand him, but he is worth the effort.

After Worsdale the best astrologer was A.J. Pearce and his Text Book of Astrology is very informative. From here on in there is a dearth of good traditional works. We become persona non grata in our own field until a few texts that are worth reading on their own merits and a couple of references:

Lee Lehman's Classical Astrology for Modern Living, Essential Dignities, and Book of Rulerships are excellent. Frawley's irreverent look at the state of our art in The Real Astrology, Patrick Curry' A Confusion of Prophets, and Robson's Fixed Stars and Constellations in Astrology are all good reading and/or reference.

Deb's book, The Houses, Temples of the Sky gives a strong overview of the origin of house meanings as well as provides a hand reference when the need arises.

Holden's History of Horoscopic Astrology is a good introduction to that topic. Campion's are much more detailed and might wait, but are excellent.

That should be enough to point the student in the right direction and he can add things as time goes on. I'm sure I left things out that I would put in, but for a first round this will do.

What would others list?

2
Hi Steven

Good to hear from you again. I hope all is well. You sound like your old self and that is welcome.

Just to explain myself a bit, I shied away from some of the medieval works because the idea was to entice a beginner and I was afraid the old language and plain difficulty of getting through some of these works would be discouraging - not that I think the books aren't valuable. They are only possibly for a later date.

One addition I forgot to make when I re-posted is Al Khayyat's Judgment of Nativities. That one is easy and it is quite good. I should add it above and think I will.

I bought Dykes' translation of Bonatti and proudly displayed it on the top of my glass enclosed bookcase, and didn't look at it promising myself I would do so when I could clear enough time to really tackle it. When I met Deb lat week she urged me to look at it soon as Dykes' translation is in modern easy to read English. So I picked it up over this past weekend and sure enough Deb was right and I found a little technique I hadn't seen before that upon first efforts seemed to produce good results. I was even going to post something about it after I re-read it.

But I did leave it off the list not because it isn't valuable - it is, but because it is not readily available and it is expensive, if it can be found. I have vol 1 and 3 of Persian Nativities, but haven't tackled them yet. Again not because I don't think they have value, but only because this list was to kept short and sweet and with a newcomer in mind.

Your point about some things printed 20 or so years ago might need revision is a good one. Still I think Hand's pamphlets are solid and contain a good deal of valuable information.

Glad you're back.

3
I agree with everything Steven has written on this topic. I am so grateful to Ben Dykes for his remarkable work; we are so lucky to have him around and Steven too I might add :'

james

4
steven wrote:Most of the best material I have read and learned from is more in the forms of journals and articles such as the newest article here at Skyscript on the Nodes, Of the judgements
on the lunar nodes
, written by Lucia Bellizia and translated from Italian into English by Margherita. This is really good stuff.
Hope so much I'm not killing English :(
Anyway the article is very beautiful for itself.

And I agree that Dykes prefaces to his books are really a kind of introduction to traditional astrology. I had more than an insight reading them.

In Italian we are lucky to have the comment to the first book of Tetrabiblos were chapter by chapter are introduced all the basic stuff of traditional astrology.

margherita
Traditional astrology at
http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com

5
Hi Margherita,

Your English is fine. There are some few parts where the grammar isn't quite right but nothing that can't be figured out from context in only a moment.

Dykes's books are underpriced considering the great efforts that he clearly puts into them; also he's been reprinting individual volumes of Bonatti in paperback, so people can acquire them at their leisure.

As for this mangy dog's advice for books:
  • the older the text, the better
    think
    & doubt your conclusions.
Last edited by GR on Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Gabe

6
Regarding Dykes: Yes his introductions are first rate and outstanding reading. Some have suggested they are worth the price of the books by themselves, and yes the footnotes are invaluable. At the time I first though of this thread I considered Dykes' works for late intermediate or advanced students. Given some of the remarks on the thread, I'm having second thoughts.

Regarding price. I agree his works and the works of some others are well worth the cost. My concern here is to keep our imaginary beginning traditional astrologer interested and not frighten him off with higher priced books regardless of their genuine value. I also admit to having a problem with astrologers who expect these works to be cheap. I used to see this in a group I used to belong to. They would grumble and mumble about the high price of books giving no thought to the enormous amount of work involved in writing and editing a book let along a two volume translation of medieval Latin. They were oblivious, of course, to any other costs involved that had to be covered. They assumed the author kept it all. We need to be grateful even if we can't afford them.

There is a new edition of a translation of Ibn Ezra's work that sells for about $140.00 US. I would love to have it, but it has to wait until I have fewer financial obligations (would that the average Congressman think similarly). I know the price is appropriate.

Then there is luck. I once wanted two books badly: one was The General Principles of Astrology by Aleister Crowley and Evangeline Adams (list price $80 US) and Tamsyn Barton's Ancient Astrology which sold for pretty high prices used. Patience paid off. I found Principles for half price and Barton for about $25 on ABE books. You just have to look for a while.

The point here is that we don't have to put our imaginary student on a budget. If he needs Dykes' books then we'll say so - our judgment being dependent upon appropriateness not his wallet.

7
Forgive me if everyone on this thread knows this (or if Tom think's it's off-topc), but a good way to access hard-to-find or expensive astrology books is through your nearest university library, or even your public library.

Most university libraries offer cards with check-out privileges to members of the community; and both kinds of libraries have huge capabilities through Inter-Library Loan. I live in an isolated community in the Canadian Rockies, and have gotten some very esoteric materials through my local public library's Inter-Library Loan service. A university library card would also give you computer access (oftentimes from home) to on-line data bases, reference volumes, and scholarly journal articles on astrology, also.

I don't think you'd find a lot of modern popular astrology books this way, but you can find most of the historical/traditional works plus humanities scholarship on them. A lot of the traditional works may be on microfilm, though! Yecchh.

I realize libraries do not quite solve the problem for people trying to build up a good personal collection, but one advantage is that you can read the book first to see if you actually want it before spending big money on it. Or until you locate a cheaper copy through a used book-seller. Also, the "fair use" principle of copyright law allows you to photocopy/scan a book chapter or up to 5% of the book's content, or an entire journal article for private study purposes. [Then I take a lot of notes!]

Although a lot of people would simply scan or photocopy an entire book, this is "piracy". I sure wouldn't recommend taking bread out of the mouths of authors, editors, translators, and publishers of desired books.

Probably the reason why these books are expensive is because publishers do not anticipate a lot of sales, so they can't bring the price down with economies of scale.

8
The more sources we have the better. I've mentioned I like ABE books. They are an online clearing house for any kind of book. You order through ABE who acts as a middle man for the actual bookseller. I've never been disappointed with any used book purchased this way. In fact the quality is usually better than expected.

I've found some decent books at ridiculously low prices at used bookstores. You have to be lucky and patient. These places buy books from estates and whatever walks in the door so that quality ranges from awful to some real gems. You have to keep plugging and if the shop has been around for a while, buy he owner some coffee and doughnuts (They're always broke) and let him or her know you would like to be notified of ANY astrology books that come in. The odds are he or she won't know good from bad. If they happen to know a lot about old astrology books, they can buy you coffee to entice you to spend the big bucks.

Public libraries can often be browsed online - save the gas. If you know a college student and their school subscribes to (I think it's called) Old English Books Online), you might be able to score at least a good look. Downloading might be a problem.

Finally if all else fails pay the going rate at places like Fields Bookstore in San Francisco. They have everything, but they also know the value of it (sigh).

http://www.fieldsbooks.com/cgi-bin/fields/index.html

Tom

9
Right, Tom!

I might just mention for all you astro-antiquarian bibliophiles out there that most university "card" catalogues (in the developed world, anyhow) are on-line and accessible to anyone. You don't need to be on staff or a student to browse the book titles, but you would probably need a library membership to use the more sophisticated search engines and to access on-line journal articles.

Some university libraries give free library cards to members of the local community. You just walk in to the circulation desk and ask how to sign up. Others want you to become a "friend of the library", which requires a donation (probably tax-deductable.) You may be able to check out books for only two weeks, but they are usually renewable.

Probably your best bet is to browse/search the on-line catalogue of an older university with large humanities departments--not the newer voc-tech places, as the former will have larger collections of interest. [In New Jersey, Tom, try Princeton.] U. library search engines are now increasingly sophisticated. My (retired from) university allows me to search books and journal articles simultaneously with key words or authors, for example.

And then some older, bigger public libraries are really surprising, in terms of their collections. Check out the on-line catalogue of the main branch of your nearest big city public library. Then your local library can get the books for you through Inter-Library Loan or their in-house shipping service.

So if people decide to go the local public library/college route, and those 16th century astrology books just don't happen to be right there in the stacks (!) you can help out your local librarian and speed up the Inter-Library Loan book delivery if you've already identified the nearest major libraries that have it, along with the book's catalogue number and pertinent publication info.

Also, in my province in Canada, my local library card is good in any public library in the province. So if I happen to get to the Big City I can waltz in, check out books at their main branch, and then return them to my local library in the sticks. Your area might have something similar.

Generally rare books/original manuscripts do not circulate. You kind of have to read them (oftentimes with white gloves!) in their rare book room. Also, some of these books are available only on microfilm/microfiche, which are a big pain to read, but a lot of microfilms do circulate, and your local library may have a microfilm reader. The more sophisticated machines also allow you to photocopy.

Finally, www.amazon.com has links to many used booksellers in the US when you locate a title you want. They list a lot of out-of-print books that they don't carry, but their affiliated book sellers do. Their amazon.com info indicates whether or not they ship out of the US.

10
On the subject of availability are we only allowed to choose printed books?
There are lots of pdf facsimile books for easy download. Take for example Gadbury's work on nativities. He would not make the top ten list of favourite authors of the last millennium but his work is a simpified version of Lilly and is beginner-friendly. If there are any faults in his work the student can unlearn them later.

The problem is the old-style language. If you are made to learn Shakespeare at school then C17th english is easy to follow but it must be difficult for overseas students even if their modern english is good. (Most europeans I meet speak better english than some english people I know)

Perhaps we need to update the English and publish them with modern fonts but of course it takes time.

Matt

11
On the subject of availability are we only allowed to choose printed books?

The purpose is education. Anything available is just fine.

(Most europeans I meet speak better english than some english people I know)
The French are known for jealously protecting their language. Perhaps English speaking people should learn from them and do the same with ours.

Tom

12
Is it okay if I post links to free online material? I'll try to stick to what you all have mentioned so far, at least what I can find for free, and what is not already available from this site (and others) in the Study Library section.

Valens' Anthology
-http://www.hellenisticastrology.com/wik ... on_Project [Currently only four chapters out of 3 books are available, but I'm sure more will be added in time.]
-http://www.auxmaillesgodefroy.com/valen%27s_anthology [The first four books, and part of the fifth, are available here.]

*Dorotheus' Carmen Astrologicum
-http://books.google.com/books?id=XiZhP1 ... &q&f=false [most of it]

ibn Ezra's Book of Reasons
-http://books.google.com/books?id=G_x6gl ... &q&f=false [most of it]

*Sahl's The Introduction to the Science of the Judgments of the Stars
-http://books.google.com/books?id=i9g-_J ... &q&f=false [most of it]

Morin's Astrologia Gallica
- http://books.google.com/books?id=vbnLYL ... &q&f=false [Book 21 minus two chapters]
-http://books.google.com/books?id=3Enc7F ... &q&f=false [Book 23 minus last chapter]

Some sites that offer links to downloads or online books:

http://www.auxmaillesgodefroy.com/traditional_authors
http://mithras93.tripod.com/books/books.html (Isn't mithra93 a member of this site?)
http://www.astrologiamedieval.com/e-Books.htm