mercury-saturn and verbal expression

1
Hi
I got some problems witrh verbal expression which I normally blame my Mercury saturn conjunction for. Einstein had the same and Astrologers often use him as an example of how Saturn can hinder mercury, since Einstein was a late developer in verbal expression. But if you check astrotheme you might find a lot of people who don`t. Steve Irwin springs to mind, but I dont know details about his childhood. Mozart was another.
So , I wonder what`s the criteria for Mercury-saturn causing comunication blocks like stutter, being slow etc?

thanks

2
I would say it depends on how the native cultivates that connection. A Mercury-Saturn link can add gravity to Mercury, meaning he can delve into very complex and difficult subjects. The concentration can be quite good. Saturn can create a disciplined mind and help one study the past in order to make way for the future. Most of my friends have Mercury-Saturn minds and we have degrees in the sciences. But, as always with Saturn, there is a need to study and work hard at realizing this potential. I have the trine (Mercury-Saturn trine, Saturn in Virgo in the 3rd), and as a child my teachers believed that I had an attention disorder, when in reality my mind was over-active and I was extremely bored and also willful and disobedient (I have Aries influences and a Mercury-Mars conjunction). With age, I channeled my energies into subjects that I enjoy, such as science, mathematics and music, and I excelled, graduating in the top of my class in high school and in college gaining various honors, etc.

With my trine and Saturn in the 3rd, I am probably more shy or silent than the average person, and I can also stutter when I speak in public. I think I am better suited for research work vs. being a public speaker, etc.

3
Hi dmause,

Your question is too general which is why I think that not many here would respond less they also make general statements about an astrological configuration.

As the cliche goes, "it depends". An example, I have a friend who has Mercury conjoins Saturn closely and I do not find her having any problems with speeches both in public and in private (in fact far from it!). This is probably due to Mercury being in his own domicile and exaltation (Mercury-Saturn conjunction is in Virgo in the tenth house) but if I say this, I would be accused of making the general statement of a native having speech difficulties when Mercury conjoins Saturn unless Mercury is in a good sign - which I don't believe so. This is because there are many ways in life that Mercury conjoins Saturn can manifest and this can only be partially delineated by analyzing the whole chart.

I would argue that Mercury does not directly signify how one conducts his speech, rather it signifies one's rational thinking or logic. When one has difficulties in his logical thinking, this would then manifest into difficulties in putting his thoughts into words, hence, the association of speech difficulties to afflictions of Mercury. Traditional astrology assigns another mode of thinking viz. irrational thinking to Moon (in the 7 liberal arts, words and grammar are given to Moon and dialectic is given to Mercury). Irrational thinking is not really the modern un-rational thinking but rather the everyday automatic thinking that we do that does not require discourse. So, Moon-Mercury configuration must be analyzed before making the prognostication of speech problem.

In the example I gave previously, she has Moon in Gemini in square to Mercury (which means that Mercury receives Moon while Mercury being in his own domicile and exaltation) ? hence, no problem with speech even though Mercury is afflicted with Saturn (in fact the reception of Moon from Mercury in domicile and exaltation makes her a good speaker). Anyway, in Hellenistic astrology Saturn in day chart (she is born during the day) is not too malefic. You would still argue that Saturn will still give problems. I would answer - yes, but will give problems in other areas governed by Mercury.

Lastly, Mercury is only one level (planet level) in analyzing ?speech? or any area of life for that matter. We need to also look at the house level and probably Lot level.

4
dmause, as astrojin noted, "It depends." How is your Mercury/Saturn conjunction aspected? What is happening with the ruler of the sign on their house cusp? As a general rule of thumb, if a planet in question or the ruler of its house cusp sign is well-aspected, you shouldn't find serious problems. On the other hand, if they are in a challenging aspect, problems can ensue. A positive reading of Mercury/Saturn might be a careful, highly structured thinker. A challenge might indicate speech impediments or more generally, pessimistic thinking. Your third house might have something to say about the matter, as well. Is your Mercury retrograde, by any chance?

There could be other factors, as well, but I would start with these.

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waybread wrote: There could be other factors, as well, but I would start with these.
They are trine the ascendant Gemini, which is ruled by Mercury. Saturn rules the Sun, Both are close to the MC in aquarius
Steve Irwin was a born comunicator born on 22 feb 1962. He has Mercuryt-Saturn conjunction and I can`t figure where his talent comes from
Last edited by dmause on Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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dmause, you might want to dig a little deeper then. It is hard to say without seeing your chart, but I am wondering whether you had communication issues all your life, or whether they onset at a particular time. For example, someone might have a good-looking chart, but then you find out that actually they have dealt with difficult injuries or health problems. Sometimes these can be traced to childhood transits. Black Moon Lilith can be a spoiler in a chart. I don't know much about stuttering, but sometimes it is associated with deep shyness, and this can be seen in other areas of the chart. I don't know if you work only with major aspects. A tight orb on a semi- or sesqui-square, for example, can be felt keenly.

If the Saturn conjunction is the only planetary aspect that Mercury makes, then this might deepen the Saturn effect for you.

A well-aspected Mercury/Saturn pair should give careful thinking. At its best, Saturn is methodical and practical.

Actually, you have communicated just fine on this thread.

I don't know if you want to post your chart. As a case study of an astrological question!

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waybread wrote: I don't know if you want to post your chart. As a case study of an astrological question!
I became shy in my teens. I got annoyed by the fact that I didn`t have quick reply against guys who picked on me verbally, but thats not all. I considered those word games beneath comtempt, but everyone seemed to play them with me. Having a quick answer became an obssession for me. In recent years I began to have diction problems
How do I post my chart?
if it helps i find the comments below very accurate, except the alternative interpretation

http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/merc ... pects.html

http://skywriter.wordpress.com/2010/06/ ... binations/

Saturn-Mercury

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I'm currently listening to Project Hindsight's Intensive on Aspects and Testimony. Robert Schmidt was just giving an example of a mercury-saturn combination in Einstein's chart that does NOT indicate mercury being harmed by saturn. In other words, he's saying that this combo in Einstein's chart is not responsible for any late developments in his speaking, etc.

I can't explain it... please obtain this CD.... it's full of new information on aspects, testimony, etc., as used by Hellenistic astrologers.

http://www.projecthindsight.com/product ... tions.html

Patti

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I just want to echo what Tanit wrote. I have Mercury conjunction to Saturn.
I did terrible in elementary and h.s. but excelled and am currently excelling in universities, maybe its my Saturn in the 9th. I am not very elequent when I speak, always trying to find the right words, but my Mercury Pluto cojunction I feel and understand things to the core.
I also do better with research and I write great papers. It will probably take many years to be a good public speaker.

12
I have a friend who has Mercury Square Saturn, she feels that Saturn "oppresses" her Mercury, she wants to express herself so much but Saturn "tells" her to be silent. I experience her as a confusing talker, she has a highly abstract and detached way of thinking and talking about things, but her Mercury is combust and in sign of its fall, and in also conj with Neptune. She, in fact, consdiers herself an excllent speaker, but I do not.

My son, on the contrary, has Mercury in Cancer Rx, but not in aspect with Saturn, and he is having a considerable delay in speech development (he is still little). I attribute that to the "mute" nature of Cancer and Mercury retrograde motion, but am still wondering what exactly signifies and causes the problem in his chart.