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Two houses one planet.

 
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Lynx



Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 1

Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:28 am    Post subject: Two houses one planet. Reply with quote

How is everyone? I think we have all dealt with this problem on occasions, where we identify the relavant houses only to find them both ruled by the same planet.

I was wondering how to deal with situations like that? I was over at astro looking at some responses to questions over there and one was on court case. The first house was ruled by mercury, and the 7th house by jupiter, so far so good. But the 10th house was also ruled by jupiter and the 4th by mercury. How is someone able to connect the significator to judge or verdict if both are ruled by the same planet?

I was first introduced to horary by John Frawley, and he says to use the ruler of the next sign, or if a planet is conjuncting a house to use that. He says to only use the almuten as a last resort.

What is everyone elses opinions on the matter? although im a newbie I imagine that our predecessors must have had some back up plan in cases like this.
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The alchemist



Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 132

Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good question. I don't think there is a hard and fast rule, it depends on the question. For example, I was looking at a chart recently, where the 9th and the 10th house were ruled by the same planet. Yet, it was a 9th and 10th house question, so the issues signified by these two houses were linked.

I would start by looking at the basic significators and the Moon and see how they fit into the picture, and then I would start looking for alternative significators and see what's their role in the overall scheme. It's difficult though and can be quite confusing for the astrologer and also a source of erroneous judgements.
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Tanit
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Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 1115
Location: California, USA

Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally don't like it when astrologers start making up systems, especially when they don't make sense and it's not necessary. If you were analyzing a natal chart, you wouldn't start looking for another ruler in relating these houses. Natal and horary are not so different from one another.

I think novices get caught up in trying to connect house lords so much that we lose sight of the information in the chart, especially the Moon's signification. Something newbies do a lot is entirely ignore the Moon, which is not going to help in answering the question because the Moon is the transmitter of the the good or bad in the question - it's always best that she be well placed and headed in the right direction, even above the primary significators. Also, malefics around the angles, especially not significators, and ill-dignified are likely to wreak havoc. If the matter applies to these planets and they are not significators, they are likely to destroy the matter, especially when they sit in or rule difficult houses. You want benefic influences in a chart.

If you ask about a job and get Virgo on the ASC and Gemini on the MC, then, yes, Mercury rules both house of the querent and quesited. But what is Mercury doing in the past and future, where is he placed (essentially, accidentally), and also does he "behold" both houses (not in aversion to these houses)?

In such cases where a planet rules both houses, I usually look at where this planet has been and where it is heading. Also, moon is co-sig always for the querent and the matter, and look to see if Moon is bringing this planet to a good situation through translation of light, etc. Say Moon is placed in the MC and separates from Mercury and applies to trine a benefic Jupiter and is received. The Moon translates the light of Mercury to Jupiter, and commits its disposition to Jupiter, who receives it and doesn't apply to any other planets himself (perfects the matter). That might bring about the matter quite favorably. Masha’allah’s methods are especially helpful when there is no joining of relevant rulers.

In other words, I don't think horary is so simple as separate house lords are connecting, or the quesited applies to you and you receive them, therefore *this* will happen. It's certainly more clear and easy when that happens, but that's not always the case. I don't think horary is just a+b=c.
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epurdue



Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 327

Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always learned that it means the quested and querent are linked. It usually means the matter will happen, but its quality depends on the dignity (accidental and essential) of the planet. It really doesn't trip me up too much.
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elumen



Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 264
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was also under the impression that the same ruler was somewhat favorable for the question, at the very least indicates the connection between two houses ruled by the same planet. As far as the outcome, I might then give the Moon to the querent and L of the house to the house in quesiton, in order to make more distinction. I think there are also last aspect, next aspect rules, like Tanit were mentioning, where is the Moon separating from and to what is it applying, it shows some development of the matter in question. Seems to be unity implied in the same ruler for diff. houses.
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Melina



Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 30
Location: Buenos Aires

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanit wrote:


I think novices get caught up in trying to connect house lords so much that we lose sight of the information in the chart, especially the Moon's signification. Something newbies do a lot is entirely ignore the Moon, which is not going to help in answering the question because the Moon is the transmitter of the the good or bad in the question - it's always best that she be well placed and headed in the right direction, even above the primary significators. Also, malefics around the angles, especially not significators, and ill-dignified are likely to wreak havoc. If the matter applies to these planets and they are not significators, they are likely to destroy the matter, especially when they sit in or rule difficult houses. You want benefic influences in a chart.


I agree with this, but I´d like to add that another crucial thing to analyze is the role of fixed stars in the angles/moon and/or main significator for the matter. BEWARE when you find caput algol sitting on the Ascendant, for example, and smile if you get Spica conj. your moon.
These are simple things many beginners fail to acknowledge, and are important clues to unravel the chart.

Best to you,

M.
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www.starryherald.com.ar
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Tanit
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Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 1115
Location: California, USA

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I was also under the impression that the same ruler was somewhat favorable for the question, at the very least indicates the connection between two houses ruled by the same planet.


Were it like the example I mentioned with ASC ruler and MC ruler as the same planet, I might agree, but if it's a court question and the 7th and 10th ruler are the same, I might wonder if the judge would favor the opposing party (depending on other factors in the chart). The opening poster mentioned it was a court issue. It really depends on the chart in general. If everything looks quite favorable and friendly, then there's no reason for concern that the 7th ruler and 10th would be the same because there could be friendly agreement between all, especially if they are Jupiter. Jupiter is generally fair and good (although he is currently retro, separating from an opp to Saturn, and on a sign change).
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PallasAthene



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 696
Location: Bristol, UK

Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Two houses one planet. Reply with quote

Lynx wrote:
But the 10th house was also ruled by jupiter and the 4th by mercury. How is someone able to connect the significator to judge or verdict if both are ruled by the same planet?


I think the verdict is ultimately more important to the querent so I'd be inclined to give that planet to the verdict and give the moon to the querent.
Almutem is often the same as the ruler... but you could look at look at triplicity rulers if they are not in use elsewhere.
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