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Simple question on assigning significators

 
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Taurus12



Joined: 31 Jul 2010
Posts: 35

Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:37 am    Post subject: Simple question on assigning significators Reply with quote

This question is really in regard to romantic horaries. There's so many done on relationships but I actually like trying to delineate them.
So my question is this: Lets say the querent is asking about about a friend that he or she is now romantically interested in and they would like to know if a romantic relationship will develop in the future. What significator do you take for the quesited? Would it be the 11th house since the current relationship between the 2 parties is just friendship? Or would you take the 7th house because the querent desires a romantic relationship?
In this situation I would be using the 11th. Wondering what other people here would use for quesited.
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Tanit
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Posted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In matters of love, I would stick with the 7th because you aren't viewing them as a friend. It's a 7th house matter. You might see something like the 11th ruler in the 7th or vice versa in such questions, though (some sort of 11th house connection). It's always best to check if their planetary significators fit the person asked about. If the 7th house (his ASC) and the 7th ruler don't fit but the 11th ones do, then that might be a better indication. Usually horary is pretty helpful for significators, if the chart is readable.

I pretty much always check that planetary significators fit the querent and quesited.
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aglaya



Joined: 05 Sep 2008
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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Tanit (surprise, surprise Very Happy ) on both points she made!
The question technically puts the Quesited in the position of her lover hence turning him into a 7th house person (people with whom we are intimate). Secondly, even regardless of the nature of their future "partnership", it is an example of "me and the other party" type of question (are we compatible, can we be together, can we have a good relationship, who will make the first move etc. ) which, again, sounds like a 7th house matter.

So, the Querent is now interested in moving this person from the 11th into the 7th and turning him/her into a lover. We need to see if they can be a good couple, not good friends any more (or, in better words, not JUST good JUST friends Smile ).

But, I also agree that it is worth checking the 11th house- even without astrology, we know that such a move can, on occasions, dissolve a good friendship and result in a disastrous relationship. On occasions, i say!. So, it would be a good thing to check the 11th- would such a move harm their friendship, what is the shape of the 11th at the moment and so on.
It is just a thought but maybe the signs in which the 11tth and 7th (and rulers) are placed could reveal something -the 11th in a fixed sign could maybe be suggesting a friendship built upon solid foundations that isn't likely to transform into something else. of course, this would be just a detail but, like I said, it is just a thought! The placement of their rulers in fixed signs could be an indication of non-keenness to change the things and so on.

Just the other day I checked one of my own old Solar return charts and noticed that 10 years ago when I started a long term relationship with a boy/man who used to be my friend before that, I had the 11th ruler inside the 7th. It appears that he he voluntarily moved there! Very Happy He transformed himself into my lover! Only, with my SR ascendant inside my natal 11th that year, it took me as much as 6 months to actually surrender because I didn't think that we should gamble with what we had; our friendship seemed too valuable to be gambled away just like that!
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Myro



Joined: 01 Aug 2010
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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So shall we entirely ignore the Fifth House?
Ezra
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aglaya



Joined: 05 Sep 2008
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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ezra wrote:
So shall we entirely ignore the Fifth House?
Ezra


Personally, i wouldn't use the 5th for the Quesited although, to a certain extent, it could be taken as relevant. But, at this point, i would let the chart tell me as to how relevant it is and how important the 5th house activities are or may be in case the two do decide to enter any kind of relationship. It is hard to tell anything without a chart, of course, but, in a way, I'd take a very strong influence of the 5th as a somewhat negative sign as it might be suggesting that the parties are being mislead by some initial romantic signals. If it is a deep relationship with the Quesited that the Querent is looking for then a strong 5th 8or a placement of any of the rulers inside it) could be an initial sign of a shallow relationship, pure sexual attraction, adventure rather than relationship etc.
Of course, it is not up to the astrologer to say whether this is good or bad but my common sense tells me that people in such situations are not only interested in starting a relationship but also in keeping stability - hardly would anyone want to lose a friend if the relationship is not likely to be promising or is just a fling.
So, yes, it could be relevant but I would not put the Quesited in the 5th (although, Lee Lehman does suggest that principle. correct me if i'm wrong).
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Tanit
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Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'd take a very strong influence of the 5th as a somewhat negative sign as it might be suggesting that the parties are being mislead by some initial romantic signals. If it is a deep relationship with the Quesited that the Querent is looking for then a strong 5th 8or a placement of any of the rulers inside it) could be an initial sign of a shallow relationship, pure sexual attraction, adventure rather than relationship etc.


I agree with this regarding the 5th house. Often when the quesited is a male and shows up in the 5th he's not interested in starting a 7th house type of deal with the querent, he wants light romance (including sex, etc.). This might especially be true if he's a swifter planet, like Mercury, etc. I don't think it's negative, as it's a benefic house (house of Venus' Joy and trines the ASC) and it might be a fun and easy relationship, so much as not a clear sign of permanence that is the realm of the 7th. In Deb's horary love article on this site, she pretty much says the same thing and I have found it to be true. I would never assign the 5th as a significator in romance, but sometimes significators show up in that house. If children are involved, they can take up the 5th significator too. Also, we tend to use Sun and Venus as co-sigs anyway, so there's no reason to add more significators that confuse the astrologer.

I think the 8th is a signification of a lot of emotional pain or loss primarily. The relationship might feel like a death once ended. Often times when sigs show up there, they either went through a painful ending or are about to go through one. I don't think it's a shallow house (perhaps the opposite), although, the 8th does have a darker side, so there might be some obsession or abuse (where one side wishes to cause loss to the other), etc. I might also think of relationships like Bonnie and Clyde, where maybe they are linked through some immoral activity. I had one relationship horary like this where the quesited was a criminal and always turned to the querent when he needed a place to stay. She always took him in and let him wreck havoc on her life. Since there is no aspect to the ASC (like the 2nd, 6th, and 12th) it's just not a good sign that the querent is headed in a direction that benefits themselves or that the quesited is in a place to benefit the querent.
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HelleG



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
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Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Karen Hamaker-Zondag makes this man a 5th house issue - a romantic interest but before there is any talk of a more committed relationship.

: ) Helle
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Myro



Joined: 01 Aug 2010
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Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edward VIII's nativity is noteworthy in this regard:

Leo (V sign) on the cusp of the VII House.
Sun (Lord of VII) at the end of the V House - "Eleventh/Twelfth from Seventh"
Jupiter, Lord of the XI House, in the V House - "Seventh from Fifth"
Mercury, Lord of the V House in the VII House.
Lord of the Ascendant in Libra (VII sign).

Ezra.
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maggie



Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Posts: 27
Location: Australia

Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there Taurus12 -
What a great question ... I would agree with you & use the 11th ruler as signifier for the querent's friend because that would be the situation at the time of the question. But only if they were really good friends. This is an important distinction - the general "others" and "friends".
I'd try to make sure first that nothing had been discussed by the friends which could mean that the situation was already changing. Or if any overtures had been made etc. It wouldn't exactly be "Is this relationship going anywhere?" sort of question, would it, where you'd use 7-ruler ... because it would be like "Will our relationship change from good friends to lovers?" or something like that.

I also agree that the 5th House comes into play but only if the signifiers were in the 5th. I don't think I'd use 5-ruler though. Nor the Moon in the 5th since that could just be the querent "thinking about" having an affair ...

Cheers
Maggie.
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