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Proven horary discussion – A Missing Ring
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Saturngirl



Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 200
Location: England

Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:01 pm    Post subject: current chart discussion..a missing ring Reply with quote

Very Happy Hi all!!
Having been away from Horary for a long time,not by choice,but due to circumstances,I feel very rusty!! but have really enjoyed watching this post! I find recovery charts can be quite puzzling & not always clear. The only ones I have judged & have been successful in recovering the object,have been ones where they were asked out of desperation by the querent! both by my husband,on losing his cash point card & his work keys!!
They were so clear I really thought I had 'cracked' recovery charts!! Lala Happy
I haven't really had a good look at this horary,I'm sorry to say,but am intrigued to know the outcome!
Wishes,SG Confused

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Paul
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Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Posts: 1526

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This hasn't been answered yet right? I just did a quick check to the end of the thread and it doesn't seem to be despite the date passing.
I'll give it my best go before reading everyone elses comments.

The querent is signified by Jupiter in Sag in the 9th.
The ring is her possession and is therefore lord 2, Venus in Pisces in the 12th.

The everything being so dignified and involving the two benefics and with the NN on the ascendant, nothing would seem to suggest theft which is what I initially thought whilst reading the summary. The ring was just lost.

Incidentally Venus also rules the 8th house which may (but probably doesn't) have something to do with the fact that this ring was inherited.

The moon's last aspect was to the ring and it is translating light from Venus to Jupiter so someone, some lunar person, is bringing the ring back to the querent. Moon rules the fifth and 6th house in this horary so perhaps somehow related to these houses.
Where is the ring now? It is 'stuck' in the 12th house and in a watery sign, but it is well dignified, exalted even. So the ring appears to be safe or at least in good condition, but it is 'hidden' in the 12th and likely to be stuck there - the most likely place, considering what she said about the drain, is that the ring is stuck in the drain, or, if the plumbing allows it, is stuck outside where the pipe exits the house to enter the outside drain (not sure if the house is like that or not).

Venus will perfect its aspect to Jupiter naturally, however it will do so by square indicating that the result only comes after much struggle. However the Moon is translating the light here. The moon is opposition Venus and continues on to swiftly aspect Jupiter in a matter of 5 units of time. It seems sensible to consider that time scale to be days(? I never really understand timing methods tbh). With that in mind a Moon person will get the ring for her and will do so in five weeks.
So who is the moon person again? A 5th or 6th house person. Considering that it is likely to be stuck somewhere wet (a drain, or perhaps a pipe from the sink) it is not unlikely that this person is a 6th house person - a plumber.

My overall guess would be that the ring is stuck in a pipe or in the drain and that she will have to call someone out to get it, a plumber or something like that, and that the ring will be returned to her in 5 weeks from the chart date, but the translation of light by opposition and the perfection by square suggests that it will take a lot of effort to the get the ring and perhaps even end up costing more than the ring is financially worth.
(of course the querent is not thinking of its financial worth but its sentimental worth!)
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Saturngirl



Joined: 03 Apr 2008
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Location: England

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:32 pm    Post subject: chart discussion...missing ring Reply with quote

maybe the delay is due to Merc being Ret?? Very Happy
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Taurus12



Joined: 31 Jul 2010
Posts: 35

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm truly a beginner at this type of horary. But I will give it a shot.
I think the fact that both Venus (ring)and Mercury (location) are in Pisces (bathroom, kitchen) means she did leave the ring in the kitchen. I take them both to be in the 12th house. So they are out of sight. Moon is separating from Venus the ring and the location, Mercury. I'm taking this to mean that the querent took the ring and placed it out of sight. The moon in Virgo (closets, drawers, storage area) is applying to Mars in Cap. (low dark places-cap) Mars also indicates it's in the kitchen....near the stove.
Did she place the ring in a drawer near the stove or did she put the ring in the stove? Sounds bizarre lol
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Tienka Atema



Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 97
Location: Netherlands

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,
Thank you for your contributions. Yes, Paul, I do think charts are telling the story more thoroughly than we would expect and Venus is a significator of the inheritance here.Thanks to Deb Smile who teaches that every chart has its story, I noticed it as well.
Taurus 12: to me, Venus in the 12th but in the sign of the ascendant showed that the ring was still in the environment of the querent. It is all about Mercury, isn't it? And maybe Mercury retro did contribute to the delay, I am not sure, Saturn girl. I think the cadency was more important here: that showed the difficulties of the recovery to me.
Both Venus and the Moon are disposed by Mercury in Pisces: being in detriment, it shows an unusual place, not a place you would expect a ring to be Confused I can follow your reasoning about the stove, but the overall picture, to me, did not point to the kitchen Smile

But all charts are easy, when you know the outcome and that will be revealed very soon!
regards,
Tienka
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Paul
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Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just realised I said five units of time as being likely to be days, but then went on to use weeks after that. I think cos I re-read the original question and misread it as having last seen it four weeks prior to the horary so changed the time scale to weeks.

I actually meant days really. Within five days.

Can't wait to hear how Deb/you answered this. Not sure if my 'approach' was correct or not.
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Virgo24



Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Posts: 18
Location: UK

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
I am completely new to horary astrology and forums, but wanted to have an attempt, even though Deb may post the answer before I complete this! Thanks for a fantastic Summer School

Querant Jupiter - dignified in both Sag & 9th & rules 10th, although I realise the 9th is a cadent house. The Moon in Vir/6th could suggest that she is likely to tidy things away.

The ring - Ven in Pisces/12th - again a cadent hse. The ring would be hidden from view - due to the proximity of Mer & Uran I did wonder if the ring had been "snatched" But Ven is exhalted - So I thought that there was a possibility of the ring being found.

The possibility of the ring being found was increased by both the Mo & Ve (the ring) applying to Ju (the querant). I think Ve was also applying by trine to Jup, perfecting on the 8th March - so I am not sure whether that could indicate when they were re-united.

The last aspect was a separating aspect to the Sun - so thought a man - possibly the husband was involved in some way.

Location - Gemini rules 4th with Mercury in Pis/12th cjn Ven. I wonder if this suggests that the ring is hidden from view - possibly upstairs, in an office or room that is commonly used, in a chest/drawer/cupboard near a window or telephone.

This is the limit of my capabilities
V24
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Deb
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Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have just uploaded Tienka’s full judgement for this chart - the details can be found here:

http://horary.co/charts/missingthings1.html

Or you can go straight to the PDF file on this link:

http://horary.co/pdf/missring1_full.pdf



Those of you who noted the probability of the ring being found in a cupboard did especially well.

The ring was found 3 months later, on 5th May, and I have included a bi-wheel to show the transit connections between the original horary and the time of recovery. As I mentioned at the start, I tried to identify the time of recovery myself, but failed (I thought it would be found in about 5 weeks). Looking at the chart with the benefit of hindsight, I think the slow timing is shown by all the significators being cadent, and maybe it is significant that the (almost exact) 3 months corresponds to the 3 degrees between the square of ascendant ruler Jupiter to the ascendant. Jupiter is in a cadent house and a common sign, so months seem to be indicated.

But what I find interesting is that the original horary has the Moon making its next aspect to the trine of Mars, and the discovery chart has the Moon elevated on the midheaven, in a partile square of Mars, which is near the ascendant. Uranus is on the ascendant in both charts. I find this very interesting – why Mars and Uranus? (Paul noted that it rules the house of inheritence and I can’t help wondering if this reflects some kind of ‘back-story’ to this chart, perhaps relating to the querent’s relationship with her mother-in-law ?).

Thanks Tienka!

Deb
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Tienka Atema



Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 97
Location: Netherlands

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Deb,
The timing is interesting and I had no idea at the time. Yes, the degrees between Jupiter and the ascendant seem to indicate months.
Quote:
But what I find interesting is that the original horary has the Moon making its next aspect to the trine of Mars, and the discovery chart has the Moon elevated on the midheaven, in a partile square of Mars, which is near the ascendant. Uranus is on the ascendant in both charts. I find this very interesting – why Mars and Uranus?

In the querent's natal chart, according to the modern rules, Uranus is unaspected and she does have a strong Mars in Scorpio in the 10th. I looked at other connections and what I found interesting is that her natal ascendant is 24 Sag, so the Moon is 2 degrees off here. Her natal Uranus is in Cancer, at 8th degrees, trining the ascendant of the recovery chart.
I do hope, Deb, that we will have another chart to explorevery soon.
I enjoyed it, so thanks everybody and hopefully this will be continued
Thumbs up
warm regards,
Tienka
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kali



Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 245

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be interested to know where the living room is placed as you walk in the front door (the Asc. being the front door). Seems there should be stronger indication what part of the house the ring could be found.

I look for lost items for a friend and once I located her bedroom (7th house) other lost items will be found in the house next to 7th and they will be in the room next to her bedroom.

Thank you, enjoyed reading everyone's contributions to solving the chart.

Kali
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Tienka Atema



Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 97
Location: Netherlands

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kali,
I sent an email to the querent and I will let you know the answer.
Quote:
Where is it? First the reason I believe it was lost is shown by Jupiter being in his own house. This could show that after her husband reminded her to be careful, the querent took "excess care of governing of things" CA 321 and put the rings where she later could not easily recall. Misplaced items can be located by where the 4th house ruler is sitting. Here Mercury Lord of 4th is in Pisces in the 12th house conj. Venus. Lilly says Venus signifies the place of the Seat of a woman, or Bed or Clothes, or where women are most conversant. CA 352 That's the kitchen. :-)

Moon in Virgo describes closets, pantries, groceries. Ruler Mercury in Pisces in the 12th and the strong water sign in 12th I'd say the ring was put in a secluded 'Chamber' near water fixtures, bathroom, laundry room, kitchen.

I think your delineation was great! Her sitting room and kitchen are in one space, so the describtion of Lilly's Venus is rather fitting here Smile

regards,
Tienka
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Paul
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Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeesh, I was way off!

Not sure why the Moon as translator of light wasn't relevant, perhaps because the two significators would have perfected their aspect without the Moon's intercession?
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Tienka Atema



Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 97
Location: Netherlands

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all,
I have some interesting information about the location.
Yuzuru: the cabinet was exactly opposite the kitchen.
Kali: the entrance is north and the cabinet is also on the north wall.
The upper part of the cabinet is a book case!
I think that is lovely!
Tienka
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Tienka Atema



Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 97
Location: Netherlands

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot something: when entering the house, the cabinet is in the room at the left, if you imagine a chart, that would be the 12th house!
Is that what you menat, Kali?
Tienka
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kali



Joined: 31 Dec 2006
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Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Tienka. That's exactly what I mean! I drug out my Frawley book and he states that "Any house can be read as being next to the room shown by the house adjacent." This is the second time I've seen it shown true in a horary.

This extra info you brought further shows how well this chart does describe where the ring was. So well that if she'd been given this information the day of the chart she would have found her ring 3 months earlier, I believe. But then her searching for the ring and finding it would negate that the ring would come to her. Things that make you go hmmmm.

I would love to do more lost horaries, I don't get as much practice as I'd like.

Kali
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