Will traveling to Europe after surgery be safe for my son?

[elumen]

Greetings forum member,

I have an important and charged question to answer for myself, even though I think I can remain objective about it, I'd appreciate other points of view, just to balance out my perspective. My son is scheduled for a surgery this coming Monday (Jul 26). he has had a condition that we were hoping would heal on its own, but it did not and other developments took place, so the doctors recommended a surgery soon. Meanwhile we have been getting ready to go for a long trip to Europe to visit my husband's family, and are scheduled to leave on Aug 4th, just 9 days after the surgery. The doctors say he should be fine to travel within that time frame, although they usually monitor the patient recovery for about 2-3 weeks after the surgery. They said, if any complications arise, it is likely right away, and if everything goes well, he should be OK within a week, although the full healing process takes up to 2 months. My question is: will it be safe for him to go on a trip for so long, are any difficulties or complications likely while we are away?



So the chart does not seem to be radical, first of all an early degree is rising, and the hourly ruler Saturn does not have similarity to Asc ruler Mars by nature or placement, I wonder if this is a sign that the situation may develop unpredictably.
The rising sign in via combasta does not seem very favorable to start with, my son is Jupiter, L5, placed on the cusp of H6. Jupiter is dignified but is stationary about to turn retro, it seems to indicate that my son's vitality will become weaker soon. His condition is the Sun, Lord of the turned 6th H, Sun is about to change signs from peregrinate to dignity, I take it that his condition will improve (Sun is life giving, so I do not anticipate it to cause more problems). Sun will trine Jupiter after changing signs, again, this probably indicates his health issue, but I do not see a worsening of it because of the beneficial nature of the planets, and the trine aspect.
The destination is 7h, and it has Venus, Mars and Saturn in there, Venus has essential debility but accidental dignity by being angular in the turned chart. Mars is peregrine, and Saturn, although strong, does seem to indicate some delay or difficulty. So all three planets do not seem very favorable for the trip, but interestingly if I take his H4, for his current home, it is also ruled by the same Venus in fall. So I conclude that he will have some discomfort whether he stays or goes.
The Moon is in Sag which could perform, according to Lilly, but is translating light from Mercury (L7) to Mars in H7. THe only aspect it will make before changing sign is a square to Mars in the 7h, and then square to Saturn. This does not seem very positive, but I'm thinking that Mars in this situation may represent the surgery itself and the surgeon (H7). So all together, seems like my son's vitality is about to weaken, but should not be too bad, and the trip will pose some difficulties, but if we stay there will be also discomfort for him. Mars also represents us, in this chart, so we possibly may decide against the trip. If I take his 9H for the trip (Scorpio) again it is not very favorable b/c the Moon will square Mars, and its cusp is in via Combasta.
In comparing his home to the destination both ruled by Venus in Virgo, it has no aspect with Jupiter (my son) and no dignity in Aries (no reception). Jupiter has no dignity in Virgo either, which seems that either way he will be uncomfortable.
The cancellation of the trip will be quite costly and difficult but it is possible and, of course, my son's health is a priority. Seems like the indications are not very favorable for the trip, but I'd appreciate other astrologers' input. Thank you!

[Tanit]

Does the Sun describe his illness? Cancer is water, which is the lungs. The 9th confused me, since it’s the hips, buttocks, etc., but I think it’s just signifying the disease coming on the trip? Sun is:

[handn]

Hello

I'm hesitant to comment on this for two combined reasons, one is that this is a health issue and I'm not as familiar with health horaries yet as I'd like to be so I need to keep my comments careful and to a minimum at most! The other part of it is that it's a big issue, very important.

When I looked at the chart I didn't get any further than your son's signification, to be honest, because when I saw him as stationary and about to turn retrograde I just thought that to go on a trip didn't really fit that symbolism at all. First station is like an ill person taking to his bed.

I see his stationary symbolism as needing to keep still for the time being, to not try to move forward, and as needing to plan for and ready himself for the next phase that he's going to pass through which will be one of slow movement and going over old ground so as to gradually fortify himself and emerge stronger at the second station when he will be able to go forwards into his life activities with more gusto again.

I want to sandwich that comment with another statement about my caution in saying anything at all, and ask that you please give my comments very little weight because I have almost no experience with health horaries specifically, hence I'm just sticking with general astrological input here and not commenting on his 6th house etc.

Regards

H.

[Tanit]

I'll post a few stationary quotes:

Lilly, Christian Astrology, II

[handn]

If there weren't any health issues and this was someone's chart asking about travelling, with the significator stationary and on the brink of retrograding I would expect the person to change his/her mind and back out from making the trip.

Obviously Jupiter is a planet normally up for the idea of a long distance jaunt. In Aries it suggests to me someone prone to activity and who would probably say 'yes' to the idea of a trip at the drop of a hat, but who now is more inclined to stay put, have a rest, go slow for a while, take it easy, recharge the batteries etc etc.

Regards

H.

[Tanit]

That's a good point - showing a backing out of the trip primarily. Plus, the querent is Mars and so the Moon-Mars square might be showing her (Elumen's) reluctance to want to go, even though Mercury (the doctor) said it would be OK, especially since the Moon rules the 9th and is about to enter detriment. When the querent is in hard aspect with the Moon, they tend to already have a lot of misgivings. Usually it's a separation aspect because that's what lead to the question, although here it might point to her delaying the trip. The SN sits in the 9th too. I still don't think the horary is promising for the trip being a good idea, for all of the same indicators.

Moon in Sag seems fitting for a trip to Europe (everyone I know with Moon in Sag loves to travel and that would be me too).

[elumen]

Tanit and Handn, thank you so much -- I am so grateful to you for always finding time to comment on my charts! You posts deepen my understanding of Jupiter Stationary. It seems though that even if we stay, my son's health is going to be in a worse state, than it has been, which makes sense given that he is going to have a surgery. He has an undescended testicle (he is 3 years old), and we were hoping that it would descend, it has been moving but not to the very end, and recently he developed a hernia there, so while it is not life-threataning, or acute, it is something to be fixed. I am not sure what planet would desribe this (Mars, Scorpio?). We were reluctant to have surgery, hoping that alternative methods would help better, but it did not fully descend.
I hope that the Moon besiegement does not indicate high fever, but vomiting is not excluded coming out of anesthesia. both my hubby and i had such reactions to anesthesia when we had surgeries as kids. i am a bit worried about my son having this surgery, and it seems that the trip should be at least postponed, if not canceled all together.

[maggie]

Hi Elumen, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I don't think anything sinister will happen to your son. It won't be easy sailing through all this but nothing seriously bad will happen to him.

I thought of the question as "Will travel harm my son?" looking at Jupiter, Mars, Moon mainly. His 9 ruler is Mars, which is also a natural ruler of surgery and Mars opposes your son's significator which is also indicating what will happen : we know that he's having surgery. But, looking at the dignity scores, Jupiter is stronger than Mars - which is a good thing because we wouldn't want the surgery being too strong and therefore too much or overwhelming him.

Yes, your son's sig is about to go Rx, but that also means it will stay in his first house of 'life' and good health. Is there anything better that you can have in your first house than Fortuna and Jupiter (even if Jupiter is Rx)? If it were lacking in dignities and hugely debilitated and Rx into his 6th, then I'd be more worried. But it's none of those things.

The unturned 9th of travel is worth looking at too - ruled by the Moon who applies to Mars by square in 2 deg. There's no reception at all between Moon and Mars suggesting they're not concerned with each other. Difficulties are suggested by the square but difficulties/challenges are able to be overcome. This would make me think that you as a mum (and Moon signifying you and your worries), would be asking yourself how many difficulties am I prepared to face? Can I manage some? A lot? None? Will there be doctors the other end of the travel who can help if I need them? - that sort of thing.

A planet ruling his ill health/need for surgery would have to be Venus according to Lilly CA 247 & Venus is not having any nasty effects here, having nothing to do with Jupiter. Sun is his 6 ruler and applying to Saturn but Saturn is in excellent condition here. Not a malefic/harming Saturn I don't believe.

I agree entirely with you that he could be unwell as a result of surgery - that's perfectly reasonable and fair enough. Nobody has surgery and feels well after it, eh! What I'm saying is that it's to be expected to see this in a chart with these circumstances you describe. Anyway, Mars and Jupiter will continue to separate - moving further and further apart and the impact of this opposition will surely lessen.

Nor would I worry about his 9th cusp being in the Via Combusta. This is said to only produce really serious negatives when the Moon is in the Via C.

Finally, Fortuna is in your little man's first house which has got to be a good omen, don't you think? and Fortuna's dispositor is Jupiter, no less. Another good omen = he is fortunate.

Blessings and oodles of good vibes for Monday coming your way.
Maggie.____________

[Carol]

If your son isn't in any pain or discomfort from his current condition, couldn't you just postpone the surgery until you got back from the trip? Wouldn't that be well within the doctors' recommendation of "soon" for this type of elective surgery, especially since he's waited this long (3 years old)?

Besides that, at this point in time, Venus (son's 8th/surgery) is in its own fall and Jupiter's (son's) detriment, as well as Jup. being in Venus's detriment, so that along with the opposition and square from his main significators to the trip (under such postoperative conditions) say to me why not just play it safe and postpone the surgery till after the trip, if at all possible after checking with the doctors?

[elumen]

Carol and Maggie, thanks for your input. It alsways helps to hear different perspective.

Carol, the sugery could have not be postponed, b/c the doctor whom we most like and trust is going to be on a long term leave starting in Aug, and we want him. Also, he said, that the danger with hernia is that some intestines may get into the whole and get twisted and pinched, so he said it is better to have surgery while it is planned and controlled, rather than when something acute and threatening happens. We have agreed.

Maggie, interestingly my son is a strongly Jupiterian, he is Sag rising with Jupiter in Sag on his Asc (also Rx), I' know he is protected, just wonder if this trip might be too much for him. The trip itself is very very tiring and draining even for an adult in good health (17 hours of flying with changing the planes) so I'm just thinking that it may be too much. Also, that he needs to be seen by the doctors about 2 -3 weeks after the surgery. In the other country, doctors are available too, but we are not well familiar with the medical system there anymore, my husband has been living in the US for over 20 years! Anyway, I am still deliberating on this issue, but am considering postponing the trip.

[Tanit]

Maybe Venus in Virgo would describe the primary cause. If he is a Sag rising, he would probably have a Taurus 6th and some Venus-ruled health issues (in combo with whatever other things are there or with Venus, etc.).

The fire influences make a lot of sense for a hernia. In the quote I posted earlier, Lilly mentions the Sun in reference to some stomach trouble (although that's not the primary cause of the issue it might be the source of illness). It could just be post-surgery nausea, but it could be fever, inflammation and other immuno response issues because he's only 3. The references to the blood might sort of be their understanding of immunology back then... Obviously the blood-letting mentioned for Sag Moon-Mars square makes very little sense to us now. I would at least expect pain because of the fire influences and the Moon-Mars square, and Jupiter under Mars' influence. As was already mentioned, Jupiter stationary opposite Saturn would show he's not up to his usual energy levels. I've complained about this aspect a lot, as Saturn likes to get in the way of some Jupiter-esque experiences. Saturn rules his 12th and sits in his 7th, which is not fun of him. He would probably want to go play... but Saturn would limit that.

Dispositors are interesting. Mars (Elumen) is under the influence of Mercury (the doctor), Mercury (doctor) is under the influence of Sun (the disease), Jupiter (Elumen's son) is under the influence of Mars (Elumen). So, basically, the doctor will give advice based on the type of disease he's dealing with/post surgery results, Elumen will base her judgment on what the doctor says, and Elumen's son has to go with what Elumen decides? The illness is sort of under its own influence because it's at the late degree where it's more Leo than Cancer. Although, a connection to the trip (Moon) makes sense because the illness might change if they go on the trip (based on how hard the trip might be for him). Moon (trip) is up to Jupiter (son), who may or may not be feeling so well.

[elumen]

An update: My son had his surgery yesterday. Everything went fine, and he took it very well. No nausea or fever afterwards. He was sore and tired yesterday, but today seemed like his normal self, even ran around for a while and tried to paint on the wall :-). We, however, have almost decided to postpone the trip just to give him more time for recovery, even though it looks like he will be fine within a few days.

[handn]

good that he's faring well

after such a delicate operation i say, let him paint on the walls!

[Tanit]

I am glad he's doing so well, but it's understandable to postpone. I think Handn had the right idea that the chart showed you backing out more so than anything (keeping Jupiter where he is)? Although, I still think postponing seems better because the chart has some stuff going on, and it may be premature to say how they would manifest (or maybe only you'd know by going as scheduled on the trip). The Moon applying to both malefics without a benefic interfering especially seems troublesome (Saturn is at the sign change but it's within orb and at 0 degrees)... If I asked about my own child and he was retro towards Saturn, Moon as the trip applying to square malefics and under the terms/face of malefics, dragon's tail in the 9th, I'd probably postpone too. Saturn hr ruler is weird too. That's just not the planet you'd expect for good health indications or a fun trip to Europe.

[elumen]

Thank you, Tanit and Handn! Tanit, I agree. Interestingly, it looks like I won't be able to go at all (I got a job), so I'm not sure the whole trip is going to happen. My hubby thinks he'll be able to go with both boys, but I'm not so sure. In any case, postponing the trip seems necessary. I wonder, if my hubby going on the trip alone will face the challenges (Mars) and difficulties (Saturn) represented by the Moon next aspects. BWT, interestingly we had to wait for a long time for the surgery (almost 2 hours beyond our scheduled time -- Saturn?) and my son was not allowed to eat, but he did not complain and was very patient and brave.