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Behavior of Retrograde Planets - Sign Ricochet effect?

 
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RegulusAstrology



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 147
Location: USA

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:23 pm    Post subject: Behavior of Retrograde Planets - Sign Ricochet effect? Reply with quote

Behavior of Retrograde Planets - Sign Ricochet effect?

I wanted to share an observation I have made now in at least two dozen nativities I have worked on lately - and see if anybody else has seen similar results.

Well known is the effect of retrogradation on the flow of a planet's energy, specifically related to timing the promise of what a planet signifies. Disruptions, repeated events, and the like; all well summarized here:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/gl/retrograde.html

Writing in his Talmudic style, Ibn Ezra offers these aphorisms:

Quote:
A retrograde planet indicates antagonism and the destruction of anything that is contemplated. Book of Wisdom, trans. Epstein, 8.32

Quote:
A retrograde planet is like a rebellious and defiant person. Book of Wisdom, trans. Epstein, 8.92

Going further, here is what I have observed:

A retrograde planet is rebellious and defiant against its sign placement. It becomes sufficiently disenfranchised by its home that it rejects it and seeks out a new home for its operations in the opposing sign. For example, Saturn/Aquarius/rx rejects Aquarius and functions more like Saturn/Leo. The effect appears more pronounced when a retrograde planet is conjunct the South Node. In this configuration, the South Node assists a retrograde planet in its rejection of its sign placement by helping it to ricochet to the opposing sign. In fact, it is possible this effect only occurs when retrograde planets are conjunct the South Node.

Without citing specific examples, I first started to notice this effect when judging temperament using the Ribeiro scoring method - which markedly improved when I made these adjustments.

Has anybody seen anything like this in their own work?

Thanks.
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pat557



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 40
Location: California USA

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Behavior of Retrograde Planets - Sign Ricochet effect? Reply with quote

RegulusAstrology wrote:
Behavior of Retrograde Planets - Sign Ricochet effect?

Has anybody seen anything like this in their own work?

Thanks.

I haven't looked for it, but since you just described my chart, I think I will.
Aq Asc
Sat in Aq, dead on the ASC, conjunct South Node
So if Sat rejects Aq and acts more like Sat/Leo, how would that manifest?
I guess it means Rx = a bad Saturn in this case?
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Tom
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Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morin and probably others, promoted the idea that a planet had influence in the house opposite the in which it was posited, particularly if that house was unoccupied. But he didn't limit this to retrograde planets.

I pulled up a couple of charts, but I admit I'm not sure what to do with them. George Patton has Saturn Rx in Cancer in 1 (the second sign however. Gemini rises). This is a debilitated Saturn by anyone's account. Does Saturn act as though he is dignified in the 7th (or 8th)? I'd have to work on that.

Marylin Monroe has Saturn Rx in Scorpio in the 4th. There is alleged sexual abuse in her childhood. Does Saturn in Taurus in the 10th fit with her career and/or reputation? Lilly noted Saturn in Taurus is severe, sullen and strict. Well she did marry Joe DiMaggio and that describes him pretty well.

[Does anyone else have this problem? You can never find what you're looking for? I pulled up more than 12 charts at random. Not one chart had anything other than Saturn Rx and most had none except the outer three. How difficult should it be to find a chart with an Rx planet? No matter what I look for at random, I never find it]

Because of the above problem I'll mention my own chart, which I do not like to do. I have Mercury Rx in Aquarius on the 7th cusp opposite Mars Rx in Leo on the first (about a 2-degree orb). Do they switch places? What can we do with this?

I like the idea because Rx planets have more definitions than the nodes and this idea gives the astrologer some direction. I'll have to work on it more in depth. I hope others post charts and ideas after giving this some thought.

Tom
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RegulusAstrology



Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 147
Location: USA

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pat,

Aquarius rising is a fixed air sign which likes to hoard knowledge. Aquarius is a human sign, its interests are often described as humanitarian. Ruler Saturn/Aquarius amplifies these Aquarian traits through structure, control, and other Saturnine methods. For these reasons, Saturn/Aquarius is a universal significator for scientists and individuals with a scientific bent.

Saturn/retrograde interferes with these themes through interruption, things which need repeating, and the like. What I ask is this: do the interruptions that Saturn-rx poses to Saturn's function in Aquarius sufficiently bother you so much that you reject Saturn/Aquarius as a ruling planet? If so, I suggest Saturn/Aquarius/rx in the 1st is similar to Saturn/Leo/direct in the 7th. Ascendant ruler placed in the 7th in the sign of his detriment is a negative configuration and is sometimes described as people fighting themselves. If my hypothesis is correct, this should ring a bell. If not, forget it.
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Night Sky



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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are times when I have contemplated a bad decision purely on a feeling that the decision would be a poor one. I had known it to be a poor decision but I had gone through with the decision anyway through compulsion.

Then having sat down in confirmation that the decision was indeed a poor one, I had "gone back", however, as is always the case, time is lost and the decision is made and going back does not recover the time. It merely frustrates.

To me then, the question of retrogradation amounts to, more or less a waste of time. It's that time spent between having made a poor decision, and finally deciding that the decision has been taken and there is no point in sitting with your head in your hands contemplating it.
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Night Sky



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Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Behavior of Retrograde Planets - Sign Ricochet effect? Reply with quote

Quote:
A retrograde planet is rebellious and defiant ...


Retrograde planets are defiant because they go contrary to the natural direction of the Solar path along the eliptic.

However, a retrograde Venus in essetial dignity in Libra will not act like Venus in Aries. It will still be essentially dignified.

There is phrase that goes along the lines of "destiny leads the willing and drags the reluctant". Perhaps retrograde is simply reluctant, the retrograde planet must eventually come back to where it was anyway and do its duty.
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RegulusAstrology



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Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

one of the events that started my thinking process along these lines was the retrograde station of Venus/Aries on 6-Mar-2009 that coincided with the stock market low. in the midst of a banking meltdown, bank ceo's suddenly announced the following week that bank earnings weren't going to be that bad for 2009 Q1. the change in market sentiment, triggered by these anecdotal earnings reports by ceo's, led to a bull market phase still extant.

the assignment of venus to financial matters, including banks, is not universally agreed upon by the tradition. deb makes mention of this, favoring Mercury as a significator for financial matters (The Houses: Temples of the Sky, Introduction, pp. xi-xxi). but working in financial services for some time now, I do find the relevance of Venus to financial matters. it's possible this is a recent phenomenon since the 1880s when the first Jupiter-Saturn conjunction in Taurus was placed in the bound of Venus/Taurus.

with respect to my initial observation, if venus/aries in the sign of her detriment/decay correlated with the banking crisis of early 2009, and market action following her first station coincided with a surge in bank stock prices, then did not venus-aries-rx signify the the exact 180 degree polarity of what we should expect (and did see) when venus-aries was moving in direct motion? and if it did produce the opposite, is it not reasonable to equate venus-aries-rx with venus-libra (sign of her rulership) when value was returned to bank stock share prices?
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