Phd question

1
Hi, everyone!

I'm currently going though one chart and trying to come up with a good advice for the client in regards to her higher education and finances .
But I find the shape of the planets that rule the most relevant houses in this chart to be a a bit odd, to say the least. I was actually quite surprised when I first opened this chart but since I might still be suffering from the last Full Moon :lol: I thought that I should probably share it with someone else as well -a fresh perspective might help a lot. So, be my bright eye, please! :D

Here's what the Native is basically interested in - she is currently employed and quite satisfied with her professional status. But she has always dreamed of having a PhD . She was a good student, she now has a postgraduate diploma as well and, though she is still fairly young, she started thinking about that last and long planned step some time ago. Her main worry is that she might have to leave her job in order to move somewhere where she can get the kind of education that she is hoping for which she generally wouldn't mind only now, seeing how the things are at the moment and knowing how happy she is to have a job in the first place, she is afraid that this might also mean - losing a decent job and not being able to find another good one after her studies. She is well aware of the fact that having a PhD does not necessarily mean that she would actually have a better job.
Now, whether she should do it this year or some other time is surely a question that requires some additional charts and prognostic methods but, generally speaking, she wants to know if pursuing this goal would actually make any sense in her case. She wants to know if there is any kind of natal promise that clearly suggests that she would or should do it and, even more importantly, if earning a PhD would mean earning more money as well or, in better words, if it is worth it.

But, so far, her chart has been pretty confusing to me. She is a chatty and interesting Mercury/type of girl and with this ascendant ruler and the 10th inside Aquarius I must say that I was very surprised when she told me that economy was her first and only choice when she was deciding what to study. Her father is rather well off and wanted her to have all the privileges that he thought she deserves and so she studied at a very expensive private university. When she said that she would like to continue her education, he said that she should then, by all means, go abroad, become independent and find the best school there is. She decided that she would go to USA and picked what she thought was the best postgraduate course in finances. As soon as she came back from the States, she was offered a job in the national Ministry of Finance and has been working there since. I'm mentioning all this because her chart is full of cadent planets and yet, so far, she has managed to achieve most of her goals (with an enormous financial support of her family, of course) and because I'm really not sure if this 10th and the shape of its ruler are what I'd expect to see in in her natal chart.
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The 2nd ruler is very weak and fallen but the presence of the Sun (ruler of the 4th) and Venus inside the 2nd obviously compensate this. But, the ruler of the 10th is Saturn, retrograde, cadent inside the 6th (hard labour, poverty etc.) and conjunct (but separating from) this strong although also cadent Mars.
Besides this, L10 is receving a square of her Ascendant ruler, Mercury, another cadent planet and it is in a bit awkward connection with Jupiter sitting on the 8th cusp. Whilst this placement obviously suggests banks and finances, both planets are retrograde and Jupiter is actually fallen. Even conjunct Neptune.
Now, the situation is much more complex than this, of course, but I don-t think that going any deeper into the delineation would make any sense here so, I'm posting the chart and hoping to hear your impressions.
Would you say that this is a chart of someone who would have much use of any further education (it is an expensive 'activity', needles to say and could cost her even losing her current job) and do you think that this 10th could actually announce a stable professional life in finances? The 10th ruler seems to be pointing into the direction of employees and workers rather than of a future boss or employer. The presence of Mars and the whole Saturn/Mars combination to me doesn't look like a promise for this type of profession.

Any input is highly appreciated.

Here's the chart>

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Last edited by aglaya on Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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yuzuru wrote:Without any astrology I would say that she shouldn?t... Phds are expensive, troublesome and can be a step back instead of forward when the person is young.
You sound like me now! :lol:

But the truth is, with or without this PhD, I must say that this 10th puzzles me. I would never expect such a 10th to trigger a career in finances. It is not the question that she asked me but I actually started thinking if that is the kind of job that she will spend her life doing. And yet, the 10th cusp is fixed.

4
Hello Aglaya. I have a little bit of experience with these placements in the chart.

First and foremost, this is not strange at all, actually, it's common. Notice that by whole signs, the 10th is Pisces. Jupiter in Capricorn tends to make financial professionals quite often, if in a house that enables them and ruling a house that fits. In this case, ruler of 10th by whole signs, 11th by quadrant, posited in the 8th.

I suggest that instead of focusing on the falling of the planet, think about how Jupiter behaves in a Saturn ruled sign (especially Capricorn) and you will see that it makes sense. Also, the only planet above the horizon is this Jupiter, so I find her career fate and her reference pretty much grounded. To further this, the Moon, ruler of 2nd, receives 2 planets in the 2nd house/sign and her Mercury is in a fire sign (which is dry, favourable to cuts and measures).

About the Phd, I do not think that she would profit directly from it, it would be more like a tackle, an attempt to fill a gap that bothers her. Her talent lies in finances as I see, but also, there is a tense aspect between Mercury (ruler of 1st) and Saturn (ruler of 9th) through a bad house, unreceived to top it. It shows a zone of problems for her, rather than a resource for solutions. Since Saturn is the malefic in sect, she may feel an urge to do or try it anyway, sooner or later.

PS: I would be aware of a SR where Saturn and Mars appears posited in Scorpio again, because depending on their configuration, they may activate problematic times according to their house position, rulership, and by means of the essential strength of Mars. I never like Saturn and Mars in the same sign, one of them in domicile, the sign they are in aversion to the AC, and they dispositing any other planets in the chart... that's generally trouble.
Last edited by PFN on Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Paulo Felipe Noronha

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This nativity has the potential to go very far. Nothing is angular by whole sign houses but if we consider the four lots (Fortune, Spirit, Exaltation and Basis), a different story emerges.

POF is in Aquarius/9th and the ruler Saturn culminates (10 signs away) with respect to the lot - Excellent.

POS is in Libra/5th and the ruler Venus culminates with respect to the lot - Excellent (although Venus is combust).

The Lot of Exaltation is in Scorpio and Mars is present in domicile with the lord of the lot of fortune - Superb (although Malefics deliver benefits with difficulty).

The lot of Basis is in Virgo/4th and Mercury is in Leo/3rd/IC - average.

Overall, there is high eminence suggested in this nativity. The interest in further education stems from the 9th/MC/POF with the strong ruler Saturn in the exaltation with Mars, so I do see futher education as her path to higher places. But if she doesnt, she will probably still rise to a high position in her current Government job.

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The interest in further education stems from the 9th/MC/POF with the strong ruler Saturn in the exaltation with Mars, so I do see futher education as her path to higher places. But if she doesnt, she will probably still rise to a high position in her current Government job.
She already has some higher education - her undergraduate and masters, correct? I don't see the point in getting a PhD, unless she is interested in research or working as some sort of professor. If she is continuing studies under the same subject as her career, career experience will often grant the same increase in salary that a few yrs of PhD work would give. I know a lot of people who are persuing their PhD in this economy, and they have a more difficult process than usual getting accepted, getting financed and crowded classes where other students are major roadblocks (sabotaging their work, etc.). Finding a good job seems more difficult than ever also, so she may find that upon graduating there are less jobs available that she will like.

She has Neptune transiting her 10th. Yeah, I've come across probably a dozen people who feel lost during this transit (especially when they also have fixed plaets) and are in want of a change of any sort, basically... There is a blur of their life's ambitions a bit, even if they are the type who has a plan. They want to either quit their job and go back to school, or quit school and work, or quit their job and do something else, etc. I met one law student who had a semester left of school and she was about to quit. I tend to warn these people NOT to make major life changes during such a transit because they may regret it after the haze leaves.

I also knew someone personally with a similar chart - Gemini rising, Mercury square Pluto (very perceptive mind), Aqu MC, Saturn retro conjunct Mars, Jupiter retro and essentially debilitated, Uranus DC, etc. My person had Jupiter in Virgo conjunct Saturn and a lot of Cap influences. He also works in a field that involves some budgetary work (although he is more interested in altruistic work) and comes from a well-off family and went to ivy league schools. He only has his masters though (with a double-degree) and does very well with that. He also works for the government, like your client. I'm not sure what the Neptune transit is doing to him though, since we haven't kept in touch.

7
makes sense to me. the rulers of her 10th (uranus/saturn) in the 6th house of work, saturn w/mars in scorpio -- other people's money -- her sun in the second of personal values (and money)

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Hi, again.


Thank you ever so much for your comments. It happens every now and then that we (or maybe it is just me) find ourselves in that weird situation where nothing seems to make any sense whatsoever. Almost as if we're astrologically illiterate. Well, the delineation of this chart or this 10th house in particular was one of those moments for me. I needed to hear the comments and impressions of other astrologers just to make sure that this chart can actually make some sense. :D I haven't been working on any other charts these days and so, maybe I was temporarily useless generally speaking, maybe it wasn't just this chart. My birthday is around the corner and the Moon/Sun opposition 'attacked' my cancer Venus, the ruler of my 9th. So, yes, I probably was useless! :) (always blame the Full Moon, aye! :D )
As expected, after reading your comments, my brain is slowly starting to work again.
Still, there are things I didn't know. I'm glad that you jumped in, PFN, I suppose I never noticed as to how easily this combination can trigger a job in finances. Again, it could be the Full Moon :D or maybe the fact that my clients are mainly artists, teachers and frauds is taking its toll. :lol:

I actually did try to switch between different house systems (which I basically never do) hoping that it would give me a better perspective. I didn't use the whole house system though! for a moment I concentrated on the fact that the 6th cusp (obviously a prominent house in this chart) changes signs when the chart is erected in Placidus (I usually use Regio.). But then I actually got even more confused.
You're right about the 2nd- it obviously goes beyond just her personal finances: the only diurnal planet is on the 8th cusp and we have a luminary and the natural ruler of money inside the 2nd. It indeed does turn the 2nd/8th axis into one of the most important parts of the chart and it is expected that it would affect her career too (Jupiter is aspecting L10).

I completely agree with you when it comes to this Saturn/Mars placement and the triggering years. I have a Saturn/Mars square with Saturn inside the 1st and, though these two are by far the strongest planets in my chart, I had quite a miserable and extremely stressful (if that is the right word) Saturn return last year. I will make sure to try to suggest caution to her when the time comes.

And, yes, it seemed to me to that she would most probably pursue her dream no matter what. It is quite a strong male energy that pushes her to do it and, again, even from my own experience, I know how strong the urge to achieve something can be no matter how irrational our ideas and goals are and how smart it would be to do it in the first place.
But, you have actually helped me to realize one more thing and that is - I needed to ask her a few more questions. I may have gotten confused and even lost somewhere along the process of delineation but I also didn?t have all the informations that I needed. So, instead to just phone her and tell her as to what I think, I asked her to tell me as to why she wants to do it, what exactly she wants to study and if she had any specific plans at the moment. It was quite an awkward situation because, all of a sudden, she couldn?t really tell me as to why she wants to do it in the first place. She is a smart girl and a tactical player who indeed wants a constructive advice and so she she said that she should be fair to herself and give the whole thing another good examination. She said that her wish is not at all shaken but the truth is ? she hasn?t yet picked anything in particular and, no, she cannot tell why she actually wants to do it. The only thing that she said she was sure of was that she wanted something more ?quiet? than this but, at the same time, something more fulfilling (like I said, she works in the Ministry of Finance, it?s a 7AM-3PM, 5 days a week type of job) and thinks that she would enjoy some kind of research work, writing articles, perhaps publishing. Probably about finances but she wasn?t sure about that either. She sounded very confused for the first time since I met her. But she was very sincere too.
So, we had a deal : I don-t think that anyone will be able to think her out of this in case she really does decide to continue her education and, if nothing else, at least her family can help her financially but, for what its worth, she could use a good astrological advice when it comes to choosing the field of studies. So, she said that she would take a few days and try to visualize the kind of career that she might use the additional education for and that would make her feel happier. Then I will have to check as to how her ideas fit into this chart.

Now, this really does look like a retrograde ruler of the 10th to me. Don?t you think? That is exactly what has been puzzling me all this time ? she looked to secure, so down to earth, so happy with her career. Only she is not. She does not want to continue her education - she is looking for a way out of the current routine . But, after reading your thoughts, I?m not so sure if she should pick a different field anymore. It appears that this retrograde 10th ruler will be causing troubles of this kind often and yet, the influence of Mars will probably always push into fulfilling her goals. Needles to add, her goals can sometimes be the results of hasty decisions (fire and martial influence). Would the rest of you agree that, in case she does decide to go for it, that she should stick with her own field?

@tanit

thank you for sharing this, I obviously had no idea that this is such a recognizable pattern. Very interesting example.

@Stellarium

It is one interesting approach, I must say. I don?t generally put the fixed stars or Arabic parts first but it is certainly worth examining them

EDITED FOR> typo mistakes, missing words, missing letters, missing brackets....
Last edited by aglaya on Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:33 am, edited 5 times in total.

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she hasn?t yet picked anything in particular and, no, she cannot tell why she actually wants to do it. The only thing that she said she was sure of was that she wanted something more ?quiet? than this but, at the same time, something more fulfilling
Textbook Neptune 10th house transit.

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hehe, it really is! You're right. She's confused.

I just opened her SR chart for this year (her birthday is in just a few days) and and some things are making even more sense now. He does have some strong signs of change in it (I still haven't compared the SR chart to Proffections or other charts but this one alone seems to be very supportive of the idea that she is currently getting ready or simply thinking about some kind of major transition).

This is her SR chart>
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I'm posting it because, it turns out that the 2nd/8th axis that we talked about is very important in it. Her SR Ascendant is ruled by Mercury again and it is casting a partile (although already separating) aspect onto Saturn on the 2nd cusp as well as a trine onto Jupiter on the 8th cusp. Saturn is the natal ruler of the 10th, Jupiter is on the 8th cusp in her natal chart...quite interesting. Moreover, the ruler of both her Natal and SR Ascendant ruler is at a critical degree possibly indicating some sort of a change. It is actually applying to Jupiter across the sign boundary.

I will have to check this in other charts but I'd say that a change of residence is very likely this year. Her SR Ascendant is placed inside the Natal 4th which means that this house will be activated throughout the next year, her SR Moon is conjunct her Natal ascendant and her SR IC is conjunct her Natal moon. A cuspal Moon in an angle is always a sign of change in my opinion. The late degree of her asc ruler is a good supportive testimony.
Mars is now inside the 1st and receivning a square of the Moon. Both planets are disposed by her ruler.

I will have to give this Jupiter inside the 8th a closer look, though. I'm afraid that it brings her relationships into the picture as well (she is not married and has been through many ups and downs with her current boyfriend lately). The aspect is great (A trine) but this placement of Jupiter also puts the 7th ruler inside the 8th and the application of her Ascendant ruler is happening across the sign boundary. Even the SR 5th is conjunct the Natal 8th. Jupiter is conjunct Uranus...it is busy there.

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Just an update - I received an email from her yesterday evening (she currently abroad) in which she says that she has given the whole thing a lot of thought and, though she does realize that her goal might be a bit unrealistic (not the PhD per se but the idea that she might have a better job afterwards) but she says that she simply wants it. Apparently, she did have a few options in mind but is now sure that finance-related courses are her only option. Anything else would require additional education and practice and it would probably take years and years before she gets her degree.
She does say that she would like to teach at a university some day (although, again, a degree is no guarantee ), she would love to become an expert in "euoroization" (I know, I know, it the the use of the euro by a country as its own currency), would like to write articles on this subject and another something also popped out - she is interested in writing in general. She wonders if she would have any success writing fiction. That's a news to me. It appears that her deep wishes are coming up on the surface.
After I saw this last line I opened her Progressions chart and found something that i thought you might find interesting - her progressed moon is partile conjunct her natal Saturn right this moment (it was only 1min distant from the natal placement yesterday when I checked :D ) and this is the first time that she has ever asked for a natal chart delineation, and though it is a partial partial one, she is interested in the area that is ruled by saturn in her chart , the 10th.

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Aglaya, by now you have probably already responded to your client--sorry that I don't check this site more often.

I had an academic career for over 30 years, prior to my retirement, in several Ph. D.-granting universities. I supervised or was a committee member for a number of doctoral students.

One thing I found interesting in your posts was the emphasis on this client "wanting" a Ph. D. On the one hand, such motivation is a good indicator for success. On the other hand, I knew students who "wanted" a Ph. D. mostly as a trophy or feather in their cap, rather than because they loved university life, were crazy about their subject, and badly wanted the kind of career that a Ph. D. would either bring or enhance. I recall a few students who did not complete their doctorates who basically felt they needed to prove to themselves that they were smart enough to get a Ph. D.--which sadly, they were not.

A Ph. D. is just way too much work for too little pay for someone who isn't in a program for more compelling reasons than the trophy. They have to eat, drink, and sleep the research they have chosen; and want little else in their lives for several years.

With this woman's 9th house ruler Saturn conjunct go-getter Mars and squaring mental Mercury, I can kind of see where her inner pressure is coming from. {Orbs are wide, but I threw in a midpoint from Pluto.] Jupiter [of higher ed] conjunct Neptune suggests a lot of idealism, with excitement coming from those sextiles. Transiting Pluto is now hitting her Jupiter/Neptune, activating an optimistic sense that somehow it will all work out. A second house sun/Venus bodes well for economics and finance. But her 9th house of higher ed doesn't look so bright and shiny that I would need sunglasses to view it.

A Ph. D. isn't an end in itself. It is a stepping stone to something: an academic career, more opportunities for advancement in industry, or a higher paying job in government service.

So what I think she needs is a realistic 5- to 10-year plan for herself so that she can be clear about where she sees her career heading; and how a Ph. D. would or would not support her larger career goals. Since finance is her field, she can determine the costs and benefits to her of plausible scenarios.

Having said that, she can afford a few application fees. If she gets accepted, well, good for her. She might make it!