skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Book III of Carmen Astrologicum by Dorotheus
translated by David Pingree
Notes on Dorotheus III: the haylāj, Kadhkhudāh, and terms of life
by Deborah Houlding
Godfather of Modernity: The Alan Leo Legacy Vol. One - Early Astrological Journals 1890-1912, compiled by Philip M Graves
Reviewed by Deborah Houlding
Lilly's Considerations
compiled by D. Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

CMA course Robert Zoller
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> News, Notices, Books, Links
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Madeleine



Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Posts: 50

Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:36 am    Post subject: CMA course Robert Zoller Reply with quote

Hello,

I have just registered for the Foundation course by Robert Zoller, but elsewhere on the forum here (don't remember where exactly) I've read that he has distanced himself from the site.

If I should later on continue to the diploma course, would that diploma be of value in case I want to practice astrology ?

I would appreciate your thoughts on this.

thank you.

Madeleine
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
epurdue



Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 327

Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert Zoller hasn't been involved with his course in a number of years. You will also effectively be on your own. The man who is running the site (I don't remember his name now) should still be handing out diplomas, but you won't get much feedback if any on your homework. You can pay extra for tutoring, but again Robert or anyone associated with him won't be involved.

However the texts are good if confusing sometimes. It depends what you're looking for.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Madeleine



Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Posts: 50

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Mithra6,

thank you for the info. In the mean time I have all the lessons and audiofiles for the foundation course and started the first lesson.

It looks very interesting. I do take a course here in my neighbourhood too, from a lady that actually went to Mr Zoller's classes quite a few years ago. She will help and tutor me if necessary.

I also find this site and forum very helpful. So I'll get there in due time and hopefully become a skilled astrologer.

Kind regards,
Madeleine
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Clelia Romano



Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 353
Location: São Paulo

Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:03 pm    Post subject: CMA Course Reply with quote

Hi Madelaine:-)

When Robert Zoller wrote the CMA and DMA he did it under the request of New Library, specially from Luke Andrews who is a scholar himself; both worked together in many subjects, including correcting some issues in the books Tools and Techniques.
Luke Andrews has another job, and even though he studied traditional astrology for long time, I think astrology is not his first interest.
But he is really skillful, a real scholar, I can say that because when he corrected my examination test he wrote important things besides all my answers, and I have them in my mind still now.
He is the person who corrects the examination tests, yes, which, if I´m right ( and Zoller himself confirmed personally in 2007) were elaborated by Zoller.
I chose not to opt for tuition in 2004 when I studied the course, because I heard that Zoller was not stable to give lessons since that time.
I don´t know how is the tuition offered now, but I can say that people in New library are responsible and the course is very good.

hope it helped:-)

Clélia
_________________
http://www.astrologiahumana.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
zoidsoft



Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 670
Location: Pulaski, NY

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:40 am    Post subject: Re: CMA course Robert Zoller Reply with quote

Madeleine wrote:
Hello,

I have just registered for the Foundation course by Robert Zoller, but elsewhere on the forum here (don't remember where exactly) I've read that he has distanced himself from the site.

If I should later on continue to the diploma course, would that diploma be of value in case I want to practice astrology ?

I would appreciate your thoughts on this.

thank you.

Madeleine


Personally I would contact Dr. Zoller first before getting involved. I don't know his address or phone number / email, but I heard he does have a facebook page.
_________________
Curtis Manwaring
Zoidiasoft Technologies, LLC
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
epurdue



Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 327

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know what Robert's personal feeling is with the course (which was written by him but opinions can change), but he certainly has no involvement, and the New Library people aren't clear about that. I personally think it's wrong.

I will say this: I had some difficulties with the New Library a while back. At the time I thought Robert was involved with them. I tried to find his personal e-mail address and couldn't. I eventually found some people who knew the situation and they told me what Robert was actually up to - basically that he wasn't involved in the course. When I eventually contacted the New Library to tell them what I found out, I got a very terse e-mail with a lot of demands telling me what I heard was lies. They said Robert is definitely involved!

Needless to say the original information I heard about Robert not being involved in the course has been validated time and time again since then. I cut off my dealings with the New Library very quickly. They are clearly capitalizing on his name and aren't being truthful.

However, like I've said before the actual texts are good. I just wish there was a way to get them without giving the New Library money. I'm usually stubborn and I do my research. In that case I jumped before knowing the situation fully. Robert is difficult to get ahold of. I've certainly tried, and I'd love to talk to him (not about the course - astrology in general). My sense is that he has distanced himself entirely from the course - exactly why I don't know, whether because of the situation, the course itself, or both.

I will say after dealing with several traditional astrology resources, that was the sole negative experience I had.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Deb
Administrator


Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3931
Location: England

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know the situation but based on my knowledge of a number of astrological associations that were made with New Library around the same period of time, my belief is that Robert Zoller made a business deal with them, and then later regretted it but was bound by the contract. So I think it's a legitimate site, with a legitimate right to sell his work, but I'm pretty certain that Robert Zoller is no longer happy about the arrangement, and so no longer endorses the product. I'm speculating but its not hard for anyone involved to give a more official clarification if I'm wrong.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chris Brennan



Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 180
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb wrote:
I don't know the situation but based on my knowledge of a number of astrological associations that were made with New Library around the same period of time, my belief is that Robert Zoller made a business deal with them, and then later regretted it but was bound by the contract. So I think it's a legitimate site, with a legitimate right to sell his work, but I'm pretty certain that Robert Zoller is no longer happy about the arrangement, and so no longer endorses the product. I'm speculating but its not hard for anyone involved to give a more official clarification if I'm wrong.



This is basically the case as I understand it from talking to Zoller. The issue though is that he hasn't been paid for any of the products that have been sold through New Library for years, according to Zoller. So, yes, while they do have a legitimate right to sell his work because he signed a contract, Zoller himself is no longer involved with them, and is not receiving any of the profits from his courses or books. I don't know what New Library's side of the story is, but that is what I was told by Zoller.

That being the case, anyone who signs up for the course through them is being taught with Zoller's materials, and they are basically learning from his course, but they are not being taught by Robert Zoller himself. That much seems certain.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4199
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That being the case, anyone who signs up for the course through them is being taught with Zoller's materials, and they are basically learning from his course, but they are not being taught by Robert Zoller himself. That much seems certain.


Just a tip. If Robert Zoller does start running his own course again dont mention any study with the New Library! I made a reference to materials there in an email to Robert Zoller enquiring about doing his course a few years ago (I had just looked not downloaded!). I obviously didn't realise all the 'politics' that were were going on at the time. I got an incandescent reply from Robert Zoller that he would not teach me if he suspected I had had any contact with the New Library. I must admit that was enough to make me think twice. Plus a friend in my Association told me she had tried to do the course but stopped due to repeated problems getting submissions returned.

It was over 3 years ago so maybe things have calmed down a bit. Still, for future reference its not a good opening gambit to make any mention of the New Library to Robert Zoller!

Mark
_________________
''Man is troubled not by events, but by the meaning he gives them"

Epictetus
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Madeleine



Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Posts: 50

Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

I'm very new to astrology, so I had no idea about all the issues between Mr. Zoller and the new library. I heard about him from my local teacher, so just by doing a search on Google i came accross the new library site.

It really is as if you're being taught my Mr Zoller himself, because you get the printed version and the audio's on his lessons. So to me it is as if I'm actually in a course by Mr Zoller.

I too, think there should be a warning on the site, that Mr Zoller had distanced himself from it. I'm sure I would have thought twice about paying for the course. But it's too late.
Anyway...the money may go to the new library...but still, the teaching comes from one of the most respected astrologers in this time. So I'm still happy to be able to study it.

It's an affordable course too. There are other courses, but really too expensive for me. And that 's too bad. Modern astrology courses are easy to find, even for free on the internet.

But it takes a lot of searching if you want to learn traditional astrology.

therefor too I would like to say that this site is a real treasure !!

I learn a lot here, simply by reading on this forum.

Best regards,
Madeleine
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Estebon_Duarte



Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 131
Location: West Coast USA

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I asked Mr.Zoller personally while studying with him about the New Library issue as I had bought numerous products from them as well as receiving my CMA from them (which i found to be a rushed course with high expectations for beginners).
His response is posted here at the ACT forums in the Medieval section for another inquisitive student.

http://www.actastrology.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=141


scroll to the bottom for his quote-
_________________
Western Predictive Astrology by Estebon Duarte Independent Researcher AMA MACAA
Natal Chart & Annual Solar Revolution Reports
www.organic-astrology.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zagata



Joined: 15 Dec 2011
Posts: 38

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello everyone,

I see it has been a while since the last post but in the light that Medieval Astrology has been steadily resurfacing and that there are only 3 courses in the world on it, that I know of, and the number of people who are interested in it keeps growing, I decided to share my experience with New Library so that people would know even more about what they would be getting themselves into.
I took the Foundation course in 2010 and then the exam and let me tell you that it is not for absolute beginners. I am glad that I had some previous astrological skills otherwise I am not sure I would have passed it.
In October 2010 I enrolled in the Diploma Course as an untutored student (they were not offering tutoring at that time and even if they were I would not have done it) even though I had read this topic, and the reason for this is because at that time there was no other course on Medieval Astrology that I knew of and my hunger for more medieval astrological knowledge was consuming me.
The Course says: “For untutored students who encounter serious problems that are hindering their progression through the course materials should contact us. Every effort will be made to assist you”.
Over the course of a few months I stared having questions over the material (the Course is about 1000 pages). I emailed them and received a reply that it they were very busy and that I should resubmit them. A few months later I did and they replied the same. I was growing angry and disappointed. I waited a few more months and resubmitted them, only to receive an even more rude reply. I will quote just 1 sentence: “We do not really mind mind giving our time for nothing though I should say that it can be irritating where people email us and demand answers as though it is their right, and rather treat us here as unpaid tutors, simply because in the past out of our own good-will we may have assisted them with other questions. “ So after 9 months I gave up on contacting them again. In the mean time I spent hundreds of dollars on the books and materials that have been surfacing (thank you Ben Dykes, James Holden and Regulus Astrology!) partly in order to fill those gaps. I have gained from these materials but the truth is that they did not answer my questions. The reason for this is that the Course is heavily based on Bonatti and Bonatti himself offers some techniques that are not found anywhere else (for example I refer to his financial significator which has given me the most trouble) and also he is ambiguous in some places (for example for determining the Almuten of the significators in primary directions and also for determining whether to take the position of the sizygy chart and the Moon’s application to the planets in the syzygy chart or the Moon’s application to the planets in the nativity, etc etc) On top of that, Robert Zoller uses his understanding on those texts and this understanding can be wrong and in some places the lectures are very ambiguous. (for example in profections he explains first that one profects using Whole Signs then he profects by 30 degrees and then and most of the time he profects by Houses (Alchabitius) and when you have an intercepted sign you mess up the Lord of the Year. And all those ambiguities really make a difference when one sits for the exam! The same thing happened when I took the Foundation Course exam and it turned out that as I had not understood a concept ( which was not made explicit and universal in the lessons), a lot of my related answers were wrong and this severely diminished my mark.

I am coming to the culmination. A few days ago I emailed New Library that I was ready to sit for the exam and that I had a final question about determining the financial significator and that regardless of whether they choose to answer it, I wanted them to assign me an examiner. After all that has happened so far, I cannot express my reaction when I read that I am supposed to pay a fee of 41 British pounds in order to sit for the exam. Not only did not I have to pay a fee for the Foundation course exam as no fee was mentioned it its terms but it is not mentioned in the Diploma Course terms either.
Now, I am not for 41 pounds but as a Jupiterian I can’t stand lying and Mercurial tricks. What has made me pissed the most is that these people do not keep their own written contract binding word yet they threaten students like criminals should they break the copyright of the materials. I will not pay any amount as it is not written in the contract and if they refuse to drop the fee I will not simply sit for the exam.

My piece of advice to anyone is to look and listen to your gut when dealing with anything that is potentially life changing and if the Astrology or whatever practitioner has published their chart compare it with yours! I did not have a good feeling when I was dealing with the first person whose Course I took and it ended up badly. I later found out the chart of the person (who is relatively well known) and we had nothing in common, simply no contacts. My relationship with New Library started really bad but I still persisted in their Courses. The reason I persisted is because of the invaluable material, despite the drawbacks, and the very harmonious synastry Robert Zoller and I have.
In closing, I am not sorry at all for taking the Foundation and Diploma Courses (at that time I am not sure whether Robert Zoller’s new website was up and even if it was I did not know about it). I have greatly deepened my knowledge and understanding and that, I must say, cannot be done by reading Masha’allah, Abu Mashar or whoever’s book as they are nothing more than example and clarifying-free repeating guides!

I hope that my experience proves useful to others and at the same time that other Medieval Astrology courses are made available because what has been happening and where it has been happening (London, England) is a shame to say the least.
Thumbs down
_________________
If it were given to anyone to comprehend the whole condition of the celestial harmony, he would fully understand the world of the elements with all of its contents in each place and at every time, as it were the caused by the cause.

Al Kindi
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
epurdue



Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 327

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The New Library is frankly a scam. Pure and simple.

However if you PM me, I can help you with the test if you'd like. It won't be "official", but it seems to me that you're entitled to take the test. You can also ask me any questions you have.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Zagata



Joined: 15 Dec 2011
Posts: 38

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much for your generous offer, Mithra6.

I have pm-ed you and I hope I can give you something worthy in return. Very Happy
_________________
If it were given to anyone to comprehend the whole condition of the celestial harmony, he would fully understand the world of the elements with all of its contents in each place and at every time, as it were the caused by the cause.

Al Kindi
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vicki



Joined: 14 Aug 2012
Posts: 10
Location: Nottingham U.K.

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I realise that this thread was started 2 years ago and the last post was nearly 6 months ago but I thought it might be helpful if I also posted my experiences with New Library. I am new to the forum and have only recently found this thread.

I purchased the New Library foundation course in 2010 with absolutely no idea of the situation with Robert Zoller. I was under the impression that it was Zoller's site. I had looked around for an affordable course in traditional astrology and this was the one which appealed to me most.

I first started studying modern astrology in 1979 but chronic, severe illness has not allowed me to make much more than a very cursory study of it over the years. In the early 1980s I had "dreams" of becoming a consultant astrology, I so loved astrology, but it was not to be.

I mention my background because I agree with Zagata that this foundation course is not really for beginners. New Library gave me a very long extension, beyond the usual 12 months , due to my illness, to complete the course. In the event I finished the course and sat the exam within two months. I did not have to pay any extra money to sit the exam; it was in with the original cost.
The examiner marked it in great and very helpful detail but it was apparent to me that annoyingly some of the exam material had not been covered in the Foundation course and I later found it to be in the Diploma course. Also I didn't find the email format of the exam very easy to cope with and because of it I managed to miss some questions.

I was aware that I was going to be untutored and that I couldn't expect much if any help from New Library. I once emailed them with a query and got a helpful reply back. However that changed when I went on to do the Diploma course. Again I wasn't expecting to get much help but on one occasion when I contacted them I was given a definite brush off and so I backed away and have never contacted them since.

Last year I suffered a major further setback in my illness so I knew it would be impossible for me ever to sit the Diploma exam. I am just content with a sense of pride that I have managed to pass the Certificate.

I continue to read and re read all the marvellous material in the Diploma course and I have supplemented that with further reading. I also purchased Janus 4:3 software which is amazing and saves my poor brain from mathematical calculations which are beyond me now.

As far as I can understand it New Library have a legal right to sell Robert Zoller's course ( whether they have a moral right is quite another matter). Robert Zoller seems now to be selling his Diploma course on his own site but for a figure that I would never have been able to pay even though all the work he has done over the years no doubt warrants it. I feel very fortunate to have been able to study Robert Zoller's course even though I purchased it in complete ignorance of the circumstances prevailing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> News, Notices, Books, Links All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated