16 by Vindex I read all what you wrote. Thank you a lot, i ll give you now some my opinions. What means , "weakened" or "destructive". Can you give me concrete example on that issue ? If you want i ll give you natal chart from one general (army) in my country. He has amazing chart. He has Mars 29 Virgo, Venus 29 Libra, Jupiter 0 Scorpio. Mars is ruler of his tenth house. Further more his Mars is on exact place where total solar eclipse occured before his birth (5-6 days i think). So when i tried to interpret his house i started this way a) he has Mars peregrine, as ruler of his tenth, in 8 house, day born - bad, bad, bad, Mars on eclipse - even more bad, and on the end he has that ruler on the 29 degree ! I couldn t explain on any way how can so weak Mars be so powerful on the end. He fought in french Legion. He was in Somalia also, he then back to Croatia, became s supreme general. He was one of the strategic creators of croatian defence in the war. He also survived a couple asasination attemps. So you can understand me if I ask you why - on this example person he has catastrophic Mars position, and in the same time - ruler of tenth - can be so succesful in life. On the other hand, i had a client who had cancer. She had Venus 29 Scorpio, Taurus 29 Scorpio, Sun 0 Aquarius. She was very weak, very sick and finally she died. How to make distinction between those two people ? As long as you remember me I ll never be too far Quote Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:53 pm
17 by Vindex One more example. Singer Enya, highly popular performer has Saturn 29 R Capricorn, Sun 26 Taurus (Algol) , Moon 28 Gemini. Sai Baba, spiritual leader of the east, has Sun 29 Scorpio, AC 29 Scorpio also. So i think that late degree planets can easily be "the most perfected" or maybe "planets with experience". They came along to the end of sign. They learned everything what they could. This is just my opinion of course. As long as you remember me I ll never be too far Quote Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:38 am
18 by cor scorpii Planets in the last degree of a sign do not make the whole picture, it's as easy as that; you don't get someone's life story, his/her successes/failures signified by only these positions, regardless of what they signify accidentally or universally. The whole picture has to be taken into account, there are SO MANY other important elements which you haven't mentioned. And here we should be able to see the natal charts in order to analyze them. Cherry picking only certain elements out of the radix and then trying to fit someone's whole life into them does not work(like the life of general Gotovina, for example). Greetings, Goran Quote Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:41 am
19 by Mark Planets in the last degree of a sign do not make the whole picture, it's as easy as that; you don't get someone's life story, his/her successes/failures signified by only these positions, regardless of what they signify accidentally or universally. The whole picture has to be taken into account, there are SO MANY other important elements which you haven't mentioned. And here we should be able to see the natal charts in order to analyze them. Cherry picking only certain elements out of the radix and then trying to fit someone's whole life into them does not work(like the life of general Gotovina, for example). I totally agree. Well said. Mark As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly Quote Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:58 am
20 by Vindex okey, we can put natal chart. Enya would be good example. Of course that we need to take whole picture together, but when somebody has 4/z planets in third decade or even on 28-29 degree, that must meen something. Many of you said that planet on 27-29 degree is weak or even can become destrutive. So the best way would be if you took the natal chart of Enya , see her biography. I would like to see your opinion from TA point of view. As long as you remember me I ll never be too far Quote Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:47 am
21 by cor scorpii but when somebody has 4/z planets in third decade or even on 28-29 degree, that must meen something. And what should for instance Mars in a third decan of Scorpio mean? Is it maybe unhappy/distorted/unable to do anything there? This is a MINOR consideration. Or take Venus in Libra for example, in the third decan of Libra, or even at 28th degree of the same sign(Mars's term) - it is her domicile, hence she is strong end essentially dignified there. But that is also just a single consideration, there are still some more, very important to be taken into account. And your point in stating that "this must mean something" is? Yes it may mean something, but to get the whole picture, EVERYTHING must be analyzed. Many of you said that planet on 27-29 degree is weak or even can become destructive It may become that, if important other factors point into the same direction; the argument that these degrees are the terms of the two malefics is a rather weak one, because the malefics in these places gain some accidental dignity which makes them less harmful and potentially more profitable. Goran Quote Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:03 pm
22 by Vindex Gorane, kompa I just wanted to point that maybe is possible that last degrees are strong not weak. During the day I ll give you interest data about people who i know. Some on them are famous some or not, who had 0 and 29 degree actived. Outer planets excluded. 1. Cor scorpii, i have exact natal chart data from general Gotovina. He is Saggitarius ascedening. What is the most important for one warrior if not Mars ? He has Mars on 29 Virgo, ruler of Sun on 29 Libra ? I would not describe him as weak. Ruler of Sun with the ruler of AC are the tho most important planets in chart. I hope you agree. 2. My friend, Ph D in chemistry and molecular biology. He has Sun 29 Pisces, Mars 0 Taurus, and Saturn 0 Capricorn. He works in USA today. 3. Final example. In some astro book i found a person who has ability to count indefinite numbers. Photographic memory. He has all first 7 planets in third decade, even more 25 - or after degrees. I think there can be some explanation for that. Aries points - 0 degree o all cardinal signs have immense power. But modern astrologer accept 1,5 degree orb for influence of such power. So theoretically 29 degree of mutable signs is under the orb influence of 0 degree - in next sign. As long as you remember me I ll never be too far Quote Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:42 pm
23 by Vindex cor scorpii wrote: but when somebody has 4/z planets in third decade or even on 28-29 degree, that must meen something. And what should for instance Mars in a third decan of Scorpio mean? Is it maybe unhappy/distorted/unable to do anything there? This is a MINOR consideration. Or take Venus in Libra for example, in the third decan of Libra, or even at 28th degree of the same sign(Mars's term) - it is her domicile, hence she is strong end essentially dignified there. But that is also just a single consideration, there are still some more, very important to be taken into account. And your point in stating that "this must mean something" is? Yes it may mean something, but to get the whole picture, EVERYTHING must be analyzed. Many of you said that planet on 27-29 degree is weak or even can become destructive It may become that, if important other factors point into the same direction; the argument that these degrees are the terms of the two malefics is a rather weak one, because the malefics in these places gain some accidental dignity which makes them less harmful and potentially more profitable. Goran Okay, that s true - but planet can be truly weak on this degrees just because of bad term. As you said term is minor condsideration. Some of you said that planet is gennerally weakened just because its in a bad term. As long as you remember me I ll never be too far Quote Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:46 pm
24 by Mark Some of you said that planet is gennerally weakened just because its in a bad term. I think you have misunderstood what was being said. Yes as a factor in isolation it appears to be a weakening condition according to traditional sources (assuming no essential dignity elsewhere). However, it is just a small part of the jigsaw that makes up traditional delineation. Take a look at Lilly's table to examine the strength & debility of each planet: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig5.html This kind of approach is just a guidline and different astrologers did adopt different schemes. However, the point is that there are numerous mitigating factors that can influence a judgement or delineation in traditional astrology. Mark As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly Quote Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:22 pm
25 by cor scorpii 1. Cor scorpii, i have exact natal chart data from general Gotovina. He is Saggitarius ascedening. What is the most important for one warrior if not Mars ? He has Mars on 29 Virgo, ruler of Sun on 29 Libra ? I would not describe him as weak. Ruler of Sun with the ruler of AC are the tho most important planets in chart I would really like to see that one Ruler of the Sun and the ruler of the AC degree are both very important, when we look at their specific significations within the natal chart. At least, this is so in traditional astrology, modern is a lot different in this regard. Gotovina as a weak for what? And who said he was weak? Mars is important in his chart, yes - if the Sagittarius ascends, this means it was a day-time birth hence his Mars is out of sect(tending to show his unrestrained, fiery, overly destructive side) and it is in its detriment(essentially debilitated),which means his Martian activities would not bring him luck/credit/fame,nor would they be able to show their positive side;but Mars is also oriental of the Sun, hence in a very powerful position regarding his ability to act and show its effects, this position can and often does signify a professional significator - and Gotovina is a soldier, a general. In the end, it would also mean: "The position of the zoidia unconnected to one another has the numerical interval from 2, 6, 8, 12, and the zoidia taken in such intervals are also called averse to one another. And so the stars found in these zoidia become inharmonious. And sometimes they bring about hostile conditions, sometimes separations and banishments..." connected to his Mars' accidental and universal significations, because Mars is unable to 'see' his house/the 10th/(to "steer his own ship"); moreover, Mars then becomes the ruler of the 12th(probably, by division, by whole-sign anyway) which signifies prisons and bad luck and enemies and sorrows. As far as I know, he is in the Hague now, indicted for war crimes - definitely a blemished end of a military career, ending up in a prison, far away from any glory/renown for his military accomplishments. Brief analysis only, without knowing further details. I would really be interested to know in which house his Mars is posited. in some astro book i found a person who has ability to count indefinite numbers. Photographic memory. He has all first 7 planets in third decade, even more 25 - or after degrees. I would check the positions and aspects of the Moon and Mercury in this regard, as well as their speed, etc., then, pre-natal Sun/Mercury synod and how it relates to natal chart.... How is this brought into connection, what is the explanation/reasoning behind this statement that all the traditional planets are in the third decans of particular signs, hence someone has a photographic memory? Goran Quote Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:38 pm
26 by Vindex Well, he achieved fame, not only in Croatia, but also in France and United States. His trial is still pending so we still can t determine has he reachec the fame, or he will be sentenced for war crimes. We ll know that by the end of the year. I didn t took his example from some particular reason we can see chart from other persons who has active 29 degree. But we are gennerally speaking now. Weak Mars cannot be general, commander etc. Inspite all bad influences you said, we achieved a lot of thing. He is the bringer of our independence but that is other thing. Here is his data: Ante Gotovina, 12 october 1955 , at 11.28 Pa?man (Zadar). You can enter Zadar. These are official information about his birth. Mars is in 9 house to the Placidus system division. I can give you another example. Our fighter in UFC version, one of the 10 the best ultimate fighters in the world Mirko Cro cap has similar Mars position , 27-or 28 degree Virgo. I am not sure. I understand that we need to look at all chart to make a judgmennt, but at the same way gennerally lot of last degree in some chart should make some negative impact. In these two - there are more of them , that impact is not present. As long as you remember me I ll never be too far Quote Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:38 pm
27 by cor scorpii Weak Mars cannot be general, commander etc His Mars isn't weak; it is only 'ill-disposed'(you need to see and learn the difference), which causes him to bring a good amount of controversy/problems in the areas of life it is supposed to 'steer'. Moreover, when a house is ruled by a malefic, we should expect problems in that area, even if that malefic is in an excellent condition. In Gotovina's chart, we have an accidentally powerful, but essentially corrupted, out of sect Mars - the first refers to his ability to act/strength, the second to the quality of his actions. Regardless of the results of his trial in the Hague, the fact that he was indicted for war crimes is sufficient to put a blemish on his military career/honor; what people in Croatia/elsewhere think/feel about his role in that war is irrelevant, because biased by either admiration or hatred for him - the truth, I hope, will be established and found out and this kind of objective, impartial truth(as objective and impartial as mortal people are allowed/able to attain it!) is possible to be gleaned from the birth chart - at least, I believe so. And based upon the current situation, I'm afraid it doesn't look good for him(thanks for the data, BTW ) Erwin Rommel("The desert fox"), one of the best/most famous generals of the German "Wehrmacht"(many say, of the entire WWII) also had Mars in Libra - did that make a bad/weak general out of him? Of course not! Mirko Cro Cop is one of my favorite fighters, an awesome athlete and a real animal in the ring Goran Last edited by cor scorpii on Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total. Quote Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:04 pm