War in Korea?

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Divided since WWII the two parts of Korea have never agreed a peace treaty after the Korean war ended in 1953. Instead they have enjoyed an uneasy ceasefire with numerous flash points having occured over the decades. Caught in a Stalinist time warp North Korea has a reputation for bellicose threats against its southern capitalist neighbour and responds to any criticism with more aggressive posturing. North Korea is noted for its excessive secrecy, totalitarian government and total lack of respect for basic human rights.

The latest episode has involved the sinking of a South Korean naval ship in March 2010 killing 46 South Korean sailors. An international panel of experts has concluded the ship was sunk by a torpedo of North Korean origin. The South Korean government has responded by announcing sanctions against North Korea. Typical to its paranoid outlook rather than apologising North korea has interpreted the whole issue as a threat to its basic security and has severed diplomatic links with south Korea. North Korea has also put itself on a war footing.

Some experts are speculating the situation might actually deteriorate into open warfare. A terrifying prospect considering that North Korea has reportedly developed a nuclear weapons capacity and US forces stationed in Korea has access to tactical nuclear weapons. While Japan has openly criticised the North Korean regime China has refused to do so.

So what are the charts saying? Will the situation lead to outright war?

I will simply put up charts for study here and leave others to comment at this stage. I have displayed 7 charts here. Please note there is no exact time for either national chart so I have put up charts timed for noon. In regards the national chart for North Korea Nicholas Campion suggests a date of September 10th for the declaration of the People's Democratic Republic. However, a number of sources contradict this view. For example, the CIA World Factbook & The Statesman Yearbook records indicates the republic was actually proclaimed on September 9th 1948.

1 National Chart for South Korea (15th August 1948)
2 National chart for North Korea (9th September 1948)
3 Aries Ingress 1948-North Korea
4 Aries Ingress-1948-South Korea
5 Aries Ingress-2010-North Korea
6 Aries Ingress-2010-South Korea.
7 Uranus Ingress into Aries(2010 Seoul)

1 National Chart for South Korea (15th August 1948)
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2 National chart for North Korea (9th September 1948)
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3 Aries Ingress 1948-North Korea
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4 Aries Ingress-1948-South Korea
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5 Aries Ingress-2010-North Korea
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6 Aries Ingress-2010-South Korea.
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7 Uranus Ingress into Aries 2010 (South Korea)
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Previous examples of North Korean aggression vs South Korea

-Sept 1948-People's Democratic Republic of North Korea declared. It claims jusridiction over whole of the Korean peninsula

-June 1948-North Korea invades South Korea without warning sparking Korean war

Since demarcation, the Demilitarized zone along the 38th parallel has had numerous cases of incursions by the North Koreans, although the North Korean government never acknowledges direct responsibility for any of these incidents

-Jan 1967 -North Koreans attack South Korean warship near border, killing 39 sailors

-Jan 1968 - 31 North korean commandos storm presidential palace in Seoul in a failed attempt to kill President Park Chung-hee

-Jan 1968 - North Korea captures USS Pueblo - one crew member dies and 82 held hostage for 11 months

-October 1968: 130 North Korean commandos entered the Ulchin and Samcheok areas in Gangwon-do. Eventually 110 of them were killed, 7 were captured and 13 escaped.

-March 1969: Six North Korean infiltrators crossed the border near Chumunjin, Gangwon-do and killed a South Korean policeman on guard duty.

-October 1969: North Korean infiltrators killed four United States soldiers near the southern boundary of the DMZ

-Dec 1969 - North Koreans hijack South Korean airliner taking dozens of passengers hostage

-April 1970: Three North Korean infiltrators were killed and five South Korean soldiers wounded at an encounter in Kumchon, Gyeonggi-do.

-November 1974: The first of a series of North Korean infiltration tunnels under the DMZ is discovered.

-March 1975: The second North Korean infiltration tunnel was discovered.

-June 1976: Three North Korean infiltrators and six South Korean soldiers were killed in the eastern sector south of the DMZ. Another six South Korean soldiers were injured.

-October 1978: The third North Korean infiltration tunnel was discovered.

-October 1979: Three North Korean agents attempting to infiltrate the eastern sector of the DMZ were intercepted, killing one of the agents.

-March 1980: Three North Korean infiltrators were killed attempting to enter the south across the estuary of the Han River.

-July 1981: Three North Korean infiltrators were killed in the upper stream of Imjin River.

-May 1982: Two North Korean infiltrators were spotted on the east coast, one was killed.

-Oct 1983 - North Koreans bombs hotel in Rangoon, Burma in failed attempt to kill South Korean President Chun Doo-hwan - 21 people die

-Nov 1987 - North Koreans bombs South Korean airliner, killing 115

-March 1990: The fourth North Korean infiltration tunnel was discovered, in what may be a total of 17 tunnels in all.

-May 1992: Three North Korean infiltrators dressed in South Korean uniforms were killed at Cheorwon, Gangwon-do. Three South Koreans were also wounded.

-October 1995: Two North Korean infiltrators were intercepted at Imjin River. One was killed, the other escaped.

-April 1996: Several hundred North Korean armed troops entered the Joint Security Area and elsewhere on three occasions in violation of the Korean armistice agreement.

-May 1996: Seven North Korean soldiers crossed the DMZ but withdrew when fired upon by South Korean troops.

-Sept 1996 - sub carrying 26 troops disabled off South - some land in South sparking deadly manhunt

-April 1997: Five North Korean soldiers crossed the military demarcation line's Cheorwon sector and fired at South Korean positions.

-July 1997: Fourteen North Korean soldiers crossed the military demarcation line, causing a 23-minute exchange of heavy gunfire.

-May 26, 2006: Two North Korean soldiers entered the DMZ and crossed into South Korea. They returned after South Korean soldiers fired warning shots.

-October 7, 2006: South Korean soldiers fired warning shots after North Korean soldiers crossed briefly into their side of the border.

-October 2006- North Korea claims to test a nuclear weapon for the first time. International condemnation including the UN.

-May 2009- North Korea says it successfully carried out an underground nuclear test, its second ever, drawing protests from the US, China and Russia. It also announces that it no longer considers itself bound by the terms of the 1953 truce that ended the war between the two Koreas.

-Mar 2010 - North Korea torpedoes Cheonan warship, 46 South Korean sailors killed
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Last edited by Mark on Mon May 31, 2010 12:34 am, edited 10 times in total.
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

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interesting to note. I like to use the CIA World Factbook too-
also, from my perspective, the Traditional method is to use the Ascendant measured when the Sun enters the first minute of Aries. Masha'allah opens his On the Revolutions of the World with those directions (pg.325 of Dykes translation), examples I have seen used this method (i know i should be armed with more references) and if used on this ingress chart you will see what a drastic difference it can make.
If measured by the Sun's entrance to the first minute then early Capricorn rises, it's rulers the malefics. Much more suited for two enemy countries, spawned from war. It is an interesting chart, with a conjunction of the malefics in Leo/8th (both retrograde).
It also means that this year's revolution would have a return of the rising sign and Mars returning to his sign.
Western Predictive Astrology by Estebon Duarte Independent Researcher AMA MACAA
Natal Chart & Annual Solar Revolution Reports
www.organic-astrology.com

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Hello Estebon,
the Traditional method is to use the Ascendant measured when the Sun enters the first minute of Aries. Masha'allah opens his On the Revolutions of the World with those directions (pg.325 of Dykes translation)
This subject has been already been debated here on the mundane forum. Check out this previous thread where Margherita made the same point as yourself.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5279

As you will see most of us disagreed with this interpretation of the traditional technique. I dont accept your implicit assumption that Ben Dykes adopts the method you are advocating. I can cite you an example showing he actually works with the Sun at 00 00 in an ingress chart. I remain sceptical Abu' Ma'shar or Masha 'allah really meant a full minute rather than the first second of the first minute. I am really not inclined to have another mundane thread taken up with this topic. Can I request if you disagree you either open a new thread on the mundane or traditional forum. Sorry if this seems a bit abrupt but I really want to keep discussion focused on the Korean crisis rather than a debate on traditional techniques.

Thanks

Mark
Last edited by Mark on Sun May 30, 2010 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

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On another thread in the mundane forum entitled Uranus Ingress into Aries and the Cardinal T Square, Tom , offered us the following delineation of the Korean crisis. Tom looked at both the Aries ingress and Uranus ingress charts located for Seoul the capital of South Korea. Both charts are displayed in the list of charts in my first post.

Tom wrote:
Korea has been in the news of late and whether this is just saber rattling or the potential for a war remains to be seen. If North Korea deliberately sunk a South Korean Warship, this would seem to be more than saber rattling.

Beginning with the Aries Ingress cast for Seoul South Korea, we note Mars in the 7th (Placidus cusps) and Mars is the exaltation ruler of the 1st. Not good, but Mars is in the 8th sign. Not great but less of an indicator of war I would think. However the south node is in the 7th (house and sign) and Pluto is on the ASC.

Mars is in a partile trine and mutual reception with the Sun who rules the 8th house of death. The Moon, the people, is on the violent fixed star Algol (piled up corpses), and rules the 7th house of war. Mars also rules the MC.

Now if we move to the Uranus Ingress and cast the chart for the same place, we see Mars has moved from the 7th to the 1st, bringing the 7th house to the nation at large. The Moon moved from one violent fixed star (Algol) to another (Antares). The Moon rules the 12th house of treachery, sneak attacks, etc. and is posited in the 4th. The Jupiter (Lord 8 death) - Saturn (Lord 7 war) opposition is very tight - less than one degree and it occurs on the 8th - 2nd axis.

Positive's, i.e. no war? The Moon is separating from an opposition with the Sun and is, in the minds of some void of course for a while until it trines Mars. In other words things hardly go on and we hope that means they go on as is with difficulty, but do not lead to war. The Saturn - Jupiter opposition is separating as well and perhaps this indicates the worst is over.

But Uranus hitting the Aries point will occur twice more. Those charts may well be worth looking at as well.
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

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MarkC wrote:Hello Estebon,



As you will see most of us disagreed with this interpretation of the traditional technique. I dont accept your implicit assumption that Ben Dykes adopts the method you are advocating. I can cite you an example showing he actually works with the Sun at 00 00 in an ingress chart. I remain sceptical Abu' Ma'shar or Masha 'allah really meant a full minute rather than the first second of the first minute. I am really not inclined to have another mundane thread taken up with this topic. Can I request if you disagree you either open a new thread on the mundane or traditional forum. Sorry if this seems a bit abrupt but I really want to keep discussion focused on the Korean crisis rather than a debate on traditional techniques.

Thanks

Mark
mob rule huh?
so "most of you" think Jupiter rising in Sag is representative of the "Korean Crisis"?
My statement wasn't to discuss traditional methods or to upset your objective.
......
I didn't expect you to change any charts, just bringing up my perspective.
Western Predictive Astrology by Estebon Duarte Independent Researcher AMA MACAA
Natal Chart & Annual Solar Revolution Reports
www.organic-astrology.com

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mob rule huh?
Hi Estebon,

Despite appearances I wasn't trying to be the thought Police! :) I agree good traditional astrology is not a numbers game. I am sure a troika of Ben Dykes, Steven Birchfield and Deborah Houlding could take on a small army of Skyscript members in terms of traditional knowledge and skill! I was just concerned as the last time this subject got discussed here it rather buried the basic topic. While I accept you just wanted to share what you regard as correct , valuable technique lots of members might disagree. If there is going to be a proper debate on this I would prefer if it is discussed on a separate thread either here or on the traditional forum. However, its up to you. If you want to discuss this version of the ingress chart please go ahead. Its not as if this thread is crowded with contributions. I think all those charts have rather overwhelmed other members here. :???:
so "most of you" think Jupiter rising in Sag is representative of the "Korean Crisis"?
Well as we are discussing a fundamental debate over technique I hardly think the discussion will be resolved by using just one chart. In any case I thought reducing the argument to empiricism was more typical of a modernist than than a traditionalist like youself?

However, to play along a little hasn't the Jupiter-Saturn opposition been closely squaring the ASC-Desc of the axis of the 1948 Ingress charts? There lots of other things if we are going to get into it. For example transiting Mars on the 1948 Ingress chart Fortuna (North Korea). Lets not forget Sagittarius rising chart is not necessarily good because its domicile ruler is Jupiter. The tropical sign of Sagittarius contains some of the most malefic degrees in the zodiac due the stars of the constellation of Scorpio being located there by precession. The 1948 Ingress charts for North/South Korea fell right between the traditionally very malefic nebulas of Acumen and Aculeus in the 'sting of the Scorpion'.

Anyway, I would be closely examing this years ingress for signs of the potential conflict. I imagine you are medieval in technique so you ignore Pluto sitting smack bang on this years ingress charts? Pity! Ok what about the fact that malefic nebula Facies in the eye of the Archer is right on the ascendant degree of the South Korean Aries Ingress chart?
My statement wasn't to discuss traditional methods or to upset your objective. My point was that if you used what "we all agreed" was the right method this "crisis" would be much more apparent in the chart (as the rest of my post stated).
Estebon if you want to delineate the charts using this technique go ahead. However, you might be interested in this article from Ben Dykes from 2009 where he is using 00 00 Aries for his Ingress chart. He clearly doesn't seem to be utilising the method you believe Masha 'Allah advocated.
http://www.bendykes.com/articles/tsunami.php

regards

Mark
Ps Got my copy of Ibn Ezra today. Fantastic!
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

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The midpoint chart of the two nations could provide some interesting perspectives. I notice midpoint Ascendant is 15SC53 and hassled by the square from midpoint Pluto. Midpoint Moon is 0LI31 and in the degree of the Autumn equinox. Transit Saturn has been pressurizing to this area. Transit Pluto isn't quite through with its square either, because transit Saturn 'translates' is influence back to midpoint mooin and plucks on matters of frustration. Midpoint Moon is in semi-square to the midpoint ascendant and full of tension.

The leaders of these nations appear to have a hard time getting along? :???:
http://www.astronor.com

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The midpoint chart of the two nations could provide some interesting perspectives. I notice midpoint Ascendant is 15SC53 and hassled by the square from midpoint Pluto. Midpoint Moon is 0LI31 and in the degree of the Autumn equinox.
Hello Andrew,

Unfortunately, the data for both national charts is untimed. I think the time for the North Korean national chart is probably quite close based on a series of events. Scorpio rising seems right for the so called 'hermit country'. However, I couldn't vouch for the South Korean chart. This also throws off the position of the Moon.

I am more tempted to look at this issue with the Ingress charts in comparison to recent and future eclipses. I plan to post up something on this later. However, transits to the national charts will also be interesting.

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

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Hi All,

I just wanted to clear up a little misunderstanding about how I or Masha'allah/Abu Ma'shar cast a chart for ingresses. The texts do say to cast the chart for when the Sun enters the first minute of Aries. But remember that 00d 00m 00s Aries is the first minute: the first minute of Aries lasts from 00d 00m 00s to 00d 01m 00s.

This difference between cardinal (1, 2, 3) and ordinal (first, second, third) is just like when the years of the 20th Century begin with 19--. Lilly discusses this confusion somewhere in Christian Astrology, and it's also why, in my own chart diagrams, the text might say a planet is in the "twentieth degree" of a sign, and my diagram has "19." (It's not always evident to me which one the original Arabic author wanted, but I try to be faithful to the text as it reads).

So, the ingress begins at 00 00 00 Aries, which could equally be called the first minute, second, or degree of Aries!

Best,
Ben
www.bendykes.com
Traditional Astrology Texts and Teaching

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Ben wrote:
So, the ingress begins at 00 00 00 Aries, which could equally be called the first minute, second, or degree of Aries!
Thanks very much for clarifying that point Ben. I am personally relieved not to have to take into account two different kinds of ingress chart! :D

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

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In todays news: Aftenposten
North Korea threatens - can start nuclear war against USA and South Korea at any time.

The chart for the recent solar eclipse of 11.July 2010, when cast for Pyongyang 39N02, 125E45, puts Asc 10CN09 conj South Node at 11CN28, but more importantly the MC is 20PI03 with Mars 19VI09 on the lower Midheaven.

Moving on to the Full Moon of 26. July then the Asc will be 3LI09 opposite Jupiter at 3AR23, but more significantly the Midheaven is 3CN35 with Pluto on the IC at 3CP22.

For someone who may not be familiar with the astrological jargon, the presence of Mars and Pluto, in particular, bring matters to a boil.
http://www.astronor.com

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Hello, all :)

Interestingly enough Jupiter rules the part of war and bloodshed in the chart of Aries ingress 1948.(from Mars to the Moon and then cast the number from the Sun, same in day/night charts) thus signifying very nasty and malefic things when prominent(so its position on the Ascendant of the Aries ingress chart of 1948. speaks volumes about the way N. Korea is perceived worldwide, how it came to existence,how it acts, etc.)
Moving on to the Full Moon of 26. July then the Asc will be 3LI09 opposite Jupiter at 3AR23, but more significantly the Midheaven is 3CN35 with Pluto on the IC at 3CP22.
This might really mean trouble :shock: since the full moon brings to forefront all that has been 'promised' by the previous new Moon, and in that chart, like Andrew pointed out, there's Mars on the IC, clearly dominating the chart, being closest to one of the angles. Jupiter is again very prominent in the 10th house and sign, in the fire sign of Aries being at the same time the ruler of the eclipse's degree! Saturn, the ruler of the 7th(enemies, war) is also angular, additionally bearing harmful influence because in the Aries ingress chart for 2010., it rules the part of war and bloodshed!

Now the full Moon chart accentuates Jupiter in a fire sign, retrograde and posited in a house which naturally rules war and enmities...
The things start to get really scary if we analyze the significations of the other planets and their positions in Aries ingress of 1948.,2010. and the Cancer ingress for 2010.

But that I'll leave for another post.

Goran