True astrology

1
When i was 15 i didn t had any master or any direction in which I could research astrology. So i read a lot of books. Finally i understood that modern astrology is the biggest evil ever happened to astrology.

I hate a lot psychological interpretation because astrology is not subtipe of medicine. Modern astrology can t predict anything. All is about what may happend. And i don t consider a modern astrologers as true astrologers.

So i started to learn traditional astrology.

So my question to you is - how big impact do you give to determinism in astrology ?
As long as you remember me I ll never be too far

2
I don't understand this attitude. I have had an interest in the origins, history, development and traditional application of astrology for many years. But I am a modern astrologer, living in the modern world, dealing with modern clients, and the astrology that I personally practice (very strongly influenced by traditional principles but uniquely compiled in my brain from a mutlitude of diverse sources) is modern astrology.

I suspect that what you are trying to differentiate between is overly simplified 'popular astrology' which gets championed by mass-market media, and that which demands more technical knowledge and philosophical reflection. But surely, anyone who is sincerely interested in this subject, and who sees it as a 'calling' will want to study the subject to an ever-increasing level of depth - it is that urge to understand and seek meaning which defines a 'true astrologer' in my opinion. So I don't think this is about astrologers moving from 'modern' astrology to 'traditional' astrology, but it might be about the common route that many of us take - starting out at the shallow end of things, and then progressively moving into deeper waters.

Again, I don't think determinism is a factor either. There seems to be a rather rigid attitude in your opening post, which I don't share myself; but I also suspect there might be language difficulties involved, which could make your post seem more bigotted than it needs to be.

Deb

3
Well, I ll give you example. Before many years i had a consultation with one ordinary man, who is dead now. He said me that I had a car crash when i was 10 years, that i had cancer and all other stuff. He predicted me that i ll have a strong lover affair in 2006. He described a person as well. That moment i begine to study astrology. He wasnt psychic, he said me clearly that he is astrologer.

So i want to say important thing, just my opinion: person can t be astrologer is he can not predict exact events.

I hate when somebody goes to astrologer and asks him very concrete questions: when will I marry, how many kids I ll have etc. And astrologer then starts to talking about you. You are emotional, angry, you should look deep inside yourself etc. I think that is wrong. I don t think that is astrology.

I adore traditional aspect of astrology because all ancient authors were very exact and precise.

So i dont acknowledge persons who are just puting all astrology work in character describing.

I ll give you one more example. In Croatia, we had one very famous astrologer Mile Dupor. He was a shepars but he spent all his life to astrology.

I will quote him

"persons who have Pluto exact on there AC, under 1 degree conjunction will have a red spor on their face".

My mother has red spot under the eye. She was born with that. I didn t make her chart until that moment. And when i did that, i was astonished when I saw that she has Pluton 5 degree Virgo, Ac 4,34 Virgo.

So i am fascinated with astrology which is able to give exact answers on exact questions.

I remind you all that astrology was once a real science, equal with chemistry and astronomy. And I think that with that attitude ones in the future, can become again a science.
As long as you remember me I ll never be too far

4
I hate when somebody goes to astrologer and asks him very concrete questions: when will I marry, how many kids I ll have etc. And astrologer then starts to talking about you. You are emotional, angry, you should look deep inside yourself etc.
I understand that. But it is just as inappropriate when someone goes to see an astrologer with obvious emotional problems or issues that need to be addressed, and all the astrologer can talk about is how many kids will be had.

I don't recommend putting all the astrological emphasis on character assesment either, but character assesment is a vital part of most elements of astrology, in its traditional applications too. I have seen some practitioners of what you would call 'modern astrology' who are very skillful and lend a lot of respect to what they do, and I have also seen advocates of what you would call 'traditional astrology' who seem to have a very poor understanding of the subject they are dealing with. In any case, its like you've started this thread just to wave your own banner. We don't encourage views that are intolerant or that make potentially offensive blanket criticisms in the forum, so if you have such a strong dislike of modern astrology then perhaps its best if you stick to discussing purely traditional techniques in the traditional section of the forum.

Deb

5
Hello Vindex,

I sympathize with you, in that an astrologer is supposed to have knowledge of the past as well as be able to predict the future. An important part of the past, however, is character. And since we are and deal with modern people, being able to discuss matters of character in a modern way is useful and necessary, since an individual's nature is going to dictate how they both choose to act and the manner of their reactions to events out of their control.

6
Deb wrote: I don't recommend putting all the astrological emphasis on character assesment either, but character assesment is a vital part of most elements of astrology, in its traditional applications too.
Just I want to mention that- in fact- the two most detailed chapters in Ptolemy are the one about directions and the one about the "qualities of the soul", what we would call the psychological side of the native.
And following Ptolemy all the astrologers gave a lot of details about it, so I agree with Deborah that side is fully included into traditional astrology.

Still I understand Vindex, because it was the vacuity of some modern astrologers, to persuade me to dismiss them. I can remember very well when I was translating some very well known modern psychological astrologer that asked for the definition of Neptune transits, replied: "a transit of Neptune signifies a transit of Neptune." Think about the poor listeners of the lecture, coming from all Italy....

I believe that traditional astrology can do more even about the "soul" and inclinations of the native

margherita
Traditional astrology at
http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com

7
Don't follow trends! At the moment the trend is towards traditional astrology and no doubt there are astrological cycles behind it but it won't be long until the cycle again return towards a renewed interest in the 'moderns' and we'll be inundated by harmonic charts (remember them!) and the hip psychoanalysis of Liz Greene and Tyl.

No method is good or bad, if it works it works! That is the only measure. As for modern v trad..well its similar to an argument between nature and nurture - neither are mutually exclusive and in reality are far more likely to be entwined.
Last edited by daz madrigal on Tue May 25, 2010 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mad Daz's Place, quiet but never boring
http://pinkmelon.proboards82.com/index.cgi

9
daz madrigal wrote:
"a transit of Neptune signifies a transit of Neptune."


I don't understand this, what exactly is he saying?
The same for me, but it was a she :)

margherita
Traditional astrology at
http://heavenastrolabe.wordpress.com

10
Deborah i think you missunderstood me. My primary intenion wasn t insulting anybody, or any astrological point of view.

I opened this thread just because i wanted to find out what traditional astrologers think about determinism. Then you replied to me and discussion gone on the other issues.

I of course, respect charater interpretation in astrology. But i just wanted to say that psychological profile threw natal (on my opinion) is just one part of astrology. And I said that i don t think that people who are making character analsyis only a good astrologers. That s all. I also respect a need from people who really need advice about their emotional condition etc.

I just wanted to say, that (again - on my opion) , psychological interpretation can not be the only, or even main substance of astrology itself.

I am not so familiar (yet) with traditional astrology, but when i read some works from Lily, Bonati, Valentius, i had impression that these people realy wanted to find out what will happen.

And because of that, i just asked, based on your experience, how strong is free will against determined events.

I truly didn t want to offend anybody.
As long as you remember me I ll never be too far

11
GR wrote:Hello Vindex,

I sympathize with you, in that an astrologer is supposed to have knowledge of the past as well as be able to predict the future. An important part of the past, however, is character. And since we are and deal with modern people, being able to discuss matters of character in a modern way is useful and necessary, since an individual's nature is going to dictate how they both choose to act and the manner of their reactions to events out of their control.
English is not my native langueage, so i think that some my words are missintepreted.

I wanted to say that: on my opinion, character is the part of interpretation of natal chart, and we cant exclude character from any reading. But, on the other side, i also said that i dont think that people who are doing just and only that - are astrologers.

In other words, i think astrology is prediction, primarily. And that makes difference between good and bad astrologer.
As long as you remember me I ll never be too far

12
margherita wrote:
daz madrigal wrote:
"a transit of Neptune signifies a transit of Neptune."


I don't understand this, what exactly is he saying?
The same for me, but it was a she :)


That explains it. :?
Mad Daz's Place, quiet but never boring
http://pinkmelon.proboards82.com/index.cgi