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Lost book
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aglaya



Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 1138

Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 1:08 pm    Post subject: Lost book Reply with quote

Hi, everyone, here's one chart i thought you might like to see.
The problem from this Question has already been resolved but, for those of you who would like to use it for your own practice, i will post the answer in a few days (then, I will also post my delineation)!

On Thursday, my mother said that she could not find a book that she had borrowed from the library. She had only spent about half an hour trying to find it but her quick temper soon made her stop thinking and start running around the house with no real purpose and completely deconcentrated- she'd open her purse to see if the book was in it and would not even look inside. Then she'd conclude that it definitely wasn't in the purse. She wasn't really cooperative when i tried to ask her a few questions that I though might help her to remember where she had placed the book either. The only thing that she was certain of was that she had not returned it to the library. Also, she never carries books with her (she doesn't really leave the house very often at the moment) and she did not give it to anyone else. But, it was gone. And she was screaming and doing nothing useful at the same time. Smile
I asked again if she had by any chance returned it to the library and possibly forgotten about it and, as expected, she said:"Do you really think that I am that stupid?". Laughing I said that she should call the library anyway to which she replied: "I did, in fact, ask the librarian if I had returned it the last time I was there. She said that I hadn't!"

I remembered that my sister had spent a weekend at home 5 days earlier and that my mother often reads and watches TV in her room and so i called her and asked if she had, by any chance, taken that book by mistake since she always carries tones of paper and books with herself when she goes to the university. She checked and said that it wasn't in her dorm room either.
Unfortunately, my mother wasn't really helpful and kept answering to all my question with:; "no, no, it couldn't possibly be there; in fact, it isn't there, I have already looked! You have to believe me- it is not in that room/bag/chest, on that shelf/table/desk, under that table/case/thing etc!" (though, she lied most of the times Smile ).
So, I simply erected a chart for the moment when she came to me and said that the book was lost.

For those of you who are interested, it was a book about health, red-ish (or maybe orange, my mom could not remember), rather small, fairly new and called "Natural antidepressants".

So, where is the book and will it be recovered?
The chart was erected on my initiative and so the Ascendant goes to me, whilst my mother gets the 10th! She is the person who misplaced it.

Here's the chart:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Good luck! Wink


Last edited by aglaya on Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:20 pm; edited 5 times in total
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elumen



Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 264
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HI Aglaya,

Since I'm lately very interested in lost and found horary, I'll give it a try.
The book is in the house, it is likely in a room that is used for business, or which mom uses as her office or spends most of her time in (10th house) andt maybe in the bag in which she brought if form the library, or a closet, trunk, a safe place, storage place, near a piano, a quite room that is dim on a lower level of the house, and on the floor (Taurus).
The book will be uncovered (The Moon is going to conjunct the Sun, L1 and L2) although it will first make a trine to Mars, some frustration and obstacles for the querent first , but b/c Mars is in the 1st house, I'd say it is still favorable, Mars here is the querent, perhaps she will discover it after hasty search.
The books is likely hidden from the view and may be next to the dining room, or objects of sentimental value. IT is located to the South of the house, next to color blue. Taurus indicate low levels, on the floor or close to the floor.
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aglaya



Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 1138

Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

elumen wrote:
although it will first make a trine to Mars, some frustration and obstacles for the querent first , but b/c Mars is in the 1st house, I'd say it is still favorable, Mars here is the querent, perhaps she will discover it after hasty search.
.


Yes, elumen, I'm glad that you pointed this out, I will add an extra explanation to my first post because it might not be clear enough.

The chart was erected for the moment when my mother asked for my help in searching for the book and I didn't exclude myself from the question so, the Ascendant goes to me whilst my mother gets the 10th ruler. Wink
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elumen



Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 264
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this makes it even more interesting. you're the Sun in the mom's house (H10), and she is Mars in your house (H1). The Moon is carrying the light from Mars to the Sun. She's found it with your help, but not without some frustration (Mars)?
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aglaya



Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 1138

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

elumen wrote:
this makes it even more interesting. you're the Sun in the mom's house (H10), and she is Mars in your house (H1). The Moon is carrying the light from Mars to the Sun. She's found it with your help, but not without some frustration (Mars)?


Hi, elumen!
I will post the story soon as promised but, as you can see, this placement and the distribution of rulers is so very descriptive of the whole 'search'. She did want me to help, she obviously believed that i could help her (her ruler inside my house and my rulership); I, on the other hand, was willing to help her but her temper (Mars in a fiery sign and angular) and panic have actually prevented me from finding the book more than once though I was pretty sure that i knew where it was. Her ruler Mars squaring the luminaries inside her own house was a strong indicator of the overwhelming panic and stress that resulted in rather reduced objectivity and especially constructive approach on her side. The Sun/Moon conjunction alone was very descriptive of her attitude - it was clearly suggesting that her behaviour would be creating obstacles; when something goes wrong, she starts panicking, she wants to stop the Earth and needs everything to be in its own place but, at the same time- she actually starts making more mistakes and can often remember only that she is in panic, but not what the cause of her panic actually is or was! Smile
Needles to add, the quantity of the light "in front of her nose" was of no help as she was almost blinded by it.
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###



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 1380

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to vainly grope around with these horary things – just can't seem to get it.

Quote:
The chart was erected on my initiative and so the Ascendant goes to me, whilst my mother gets the 10th!


What is signifying the book? People often say it's the 3rd house, but Deb assigns the 9th in her book.

It's not a personal position so the 2nd doesn't work – the book belongs to the library. The 5th house as the 8th house from the 10th (mother): the possession of others?

Is the Moon used as a general significator? Mercury? I wouldn't even know where to begin. Sad
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aglaya



Joined: 05 Sep 2008
Posts: 1138

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, Kirk!

Good point.
There is no need to derive the houses when searching for the property of other people in situatations such as this one (as opposed to situations when, say, someone is looking for "his sister's wedding ring")- as you have already mentioned, it can get awfully and unnecessarily confusing. It is not her property (the book belongs to the library) and so we can't use the 2nd. There is no need to try to locate its real owner either because we have a much better way of locating it in the chart - we know what it is- it's a book! So, we just use the natural significator of books!
Whilst the entire 3rd/9th axis represents printed materials, informations ,communication, knowledge and means of attaining it etc., unlike booklets, magazines, newspapers and other material described by the 3rd and Mercury, here we have a small "treasury of knowledge" i.e. a book (well, hopefully at least, because they sell all sorts of rubbish nowadays and call it books Smile ) which means that it is a 9th house object or,even better- simply Jupiter. Jupiter rules books and libraries (knowledge, education, spirituality...) - so, that planet is the natural ruler of the lost object.
Well, at least that is how I approached the chart! Wink

Quote:
Is the Moon used as a general significator?


It always is!

So, here we have me (ascendant), my mother who misplaced the book (the 10th ruler), the Moon (as always) and Jupiter as the ruler of the lost object (the Quesited).

I hope this helps at least a bit!


Last edited by aglaya on Thu May 20, 2010 11:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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handn



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 509

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello

I haven't yet got round to studying lost object horaries, but going by that logic then Aglaya, surely the book is at the library? Jupiter is in his own domicile (Pisces) and own house (9th).

Regards

H.
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Tanit



Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 1117
Location: California, USA

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a hard time connecting with this chart, and I am glad you clarified who asked because the strong 10th, with ASC ruler in the 10th and 10th ruler in the 1st did make me wonder if you had asked the question for her. I'm still not very confident about what it's saying because Jupiter hasn't always represented books in horaries I've looked at - IMO, Mercury can too, especially medical ones - and when we ask for other people the charts are harder to derive. Perhaps the forum being Saturn retro might show our confusion.

I had a similar chart (but flipped) for a lost item (remote) that fell behind a table (the Jupiter-Saturn opp) next to a wall, on the floor. Opp could suggest dropping it, and Pisces can be a damp floor (or in/near water like a bathroom or kitchen), though I would think the item being in the 9th would not be on the floor, since it's high up. Maybe just dropping it off at the library in a drop box, if it is in fact Jupiter (in its own domicile and the 9th). Uranus can represent something to do with electronics (in my case the remote), so maybe it is next to something Uranus-like, but it may also represent the subject matter, being a newer technology. Water, mutable, cadent seems like it would be covered well by something though, but if it was returned it could just be covered by other books.

Supposedly the item is lost by the ASC ruler's last aspect. Here the querent is the 10th ruler Mars and the last aspect was with Venus in Gemini sextile. Venus could be by a young woman, but it can also be while doing something Venus-like, such as drinking, watching TV, listening to music, etc. Venus is also the 7th ruler, so someone else could have taken the book (such as the librarian, or a boyfriend/husband or some "other" returning it). Venus aspects Jupiter again with a difficult square and lack of equal reception, so I think Venus was somehow helpful in locating the item, especially being in the 11th.
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###



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 1380

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Aglaya,

I just found that books are assigned to Mercury by al-Biruni (11th century). Lilly assigns printers to Mercury, so it seems logical that that which is printed also comes under Mercury. After quickly checking several sources, mainly ancient, Jupiter seems to be in a separate realm from that of the communications, eloquence, and writing of Mercury. The Burnett translation of Abu Ma'shar's 'The Abbreviation to the Introduction to Astrology' even gives Mercury “poetic anthologies”. That seems oddly specific, don't you think?

In my typical fashion I can't get myself away from the idea of using the 8th house – objects owned by others, therefore a source of borrowed objects. I own in the 2nd house, I borrow from the 8th house. I can see arguments against it but I'm stuck with the thought. And to make matters worse, since we're using the 10th for your mother, then in this case I would use the chart's 5th house as her 8th house. I get nowhere with horary. crying



Deb,
I need a good horary book. Could you quickly write one up for me?
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###



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
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Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My head is spinning and the earth is shaking beneath my feet. Deb assigns Libraries to the 6th house:
Quote:
Those who keep public records such as libraries, book-keepers, archivists, public data-clerks.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h6.html

So if we borrow a book from a library would it be the 7th house – the 2nd from the 6th? This is why I usually end up declaring how much I hate horary and storm off. But, I keep coming back. It's hell, I tell you.
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elumen



Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 264
Location: San Francisco Bay Area

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it necessary to make assigning of the significatiors so complex? :-) Yes, the book does not belong to Aglaya's mother but it was in her possession at the time. Why just simply not use the 2nd from the 10th? After all, she is looking for a thing that she possessed and used, although not permanently...
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Tanit



Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 1117
Location: California, USA

Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So if we borrow a book from a library would it be the 7th house – the 2nd from the 6th? This is why I usually end up declaring how much I hate horary and storm off. But, I keep coming back. It's hell, I tell you.


I was actually looking last night for the 6th house signification of libraries, so I am glad some people brought this up. And I agree about Mercury, like I mentioned earlier. I looked for a few books before in horary and they were Mercury. Here it might be Saturn though (7th ruler)- it's in a sign of Mercury and Virgo deals a lot with health and medicine. Although, Saturn makes me thing of something old, and it's a newer book. Retro Saturn in the 3rd makes me think of something on the move, in a car. Maybe the book was in her car. The opposition could be a wedge between the seats or fallen on the floor.

It wouldn't be so confusing if Aglaya was the querent. Derived houses make my head spin...

Saturn retro can't compute this chart. I think Aglaya is able to read it better than us. Laughing
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###



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 1380

Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yes, the book does not belong to Aglaya's mother but it was in her possession at the time. Why just simply not use the 2nd from the 10th? After all, she is looking for a thing that she possessed and used, although not permanently...


But it never was really hers. If you borrow a friend's car for the day it's still the friend's car and in no sense was it ever yours. You surely wouldn't put it on a list of your possessions. Astrology undoubtedly preserves and requires the tight distinction. I think. Sad
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handn



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 509

Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
it was a book about health, red-ish (or maybe orange, my mom could not remember), rather small, fairly new and called "Natural antidepressants".


Can you please ask your mum to return the book quickly because Kirk is collapsing into a very dark place and must have first option on being the next person to have this annoyingly cheery book out on loan Very Happy

And please - noone mention cars! The horary rulership of cars is too much for this thread and we'll all implode Tongue Out
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