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I will again use Deb as an opening inspiration (if she doesn't mind):
. . . I do agree that Sun conjunct Mars results in destructive Mars-type effects. I see this as the Sun destroying them, and they being able to harm the Sun to a diminishing effect, dependent upon the limit of combustion. Hence a planet 'under the rays' at 15? is still able to put up a good fight, but as the meeting gets closer, the planet loses its strength dramatically in the last few degrees.
Dryness has been discussed but I'm not sure if anyone directly suggested that this is possibly a matter of dryness gone wild. Maybe the malefics retaining power to harm as they head into combustion is due to the fact that Mars and Saturn are both dry. Dryness divides & separates, but as the Sun approaches they are being forced into union, into joining with something other than themselves. They are being forced to do something against their nature, so they resist until the Sun overwhelms them. Which, of course, brings us to popcorn: When I dump the seeds into the air popper the tension mounts as they spin around and begin to swell with pressure. Dryness, activated by heat, forces a separative action and the seeds shoot out as popcorn kernels (and onto the floor or behind the refrigerator. I'll find them eventually). The seeds have been forced into a new state and, after the initial resistance, now just lie there waiting for the butter and salt.

Jupiter, Venus and the Moon, however are moist, and are therefore more at ease with joining and coming together ? so they don't produce divisive or harmful actions. Being by nature moist joiners and connectors they have an idea what it's all about, even if they aren't particularly wild about being swallowed and consumed by the Sun. Mercury probably doesn't care much. As a shifty insider he knows how to work the system.




On page 3 Margherita wrote:
Here, as Clelia pointed out, are in front about two different threads, one about Mars and the other about the Sun.
. . .
But what about the Sun? The Sun is giver of life.
This relates to a point I made on page 2 of the 'Career in natal astrology' thread. Something is usually missing in combustion discussions ? regarding natal charts, especially. I'll quote myself here (sorry), as this is the thread that inspired me to post this to the career thread. :-? There might be something of interest here to some people (taken from 2 separate posts):
How about switching viewpoints from the combust planet to the Sun regarding the chart native? So, regarding qualities of the native himself or herself, rather than questioning whether combust Mercury is weakened we can see how the Sun is increased ? takes on qualities and capabilities ? through Mercury.

. . .

The relationship is synodic, but these discussions seem to center on the combust planet with little about the Sun itself. If light and vitality is given to the planets from the Sun it seems that understanding the rest of the relationship would require consideration of what the Sun gets from the planets. I could imagine the possibility of ancient thought seeing the Sun as taking back its changed light and vitality from the planets by way of combustion, and thereby taking in the experience of each planet during its recent cycle. The planets are sent out, they return back and inform the Sun ? the Sun is strengthened and increased through receiving the experience of the planets.

It is said that a god dies when there is no one left to worship him. Similarly, we have in the Old Testament ?I the Lord your God am a jealous God?. The Sun/God has its needs. A king needs ministers and subjects who bow and scrape. Maybe the Sun needs to periodically consume the planets in order to take in the now altered vitality that it had sent outwards. Likewise, a person with a combust natal Mercury possibly needs to enter a Mercury-oriented vocation in order to give the Sun what it needs, reflecting what the person needs in order to develop, strengthen and expand.
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic ... c&start=15

After posting that I thought of the theological idea (and Hermetic?) that Man (Ladies too) co-creates the world daily with God. It's not a matter of merely passive Man being under the control of an all-powerful God. Likewise, such a view can give us a more co-existent astrological Sun. God working with Man; the Sun working with the Planets. This makes for a more complex concept of combustion that can add much to natal delineation, with the Sun as the will, drive and development of the person.

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Hi Kirk

I liked your opening paragraphs. Last Friday I started a post that was relevant to this issue that I was going to place in the career thread, but I got interrupted with a phone call whilst writing it, and since then I haven't had the time to dig it out and finish it. I'm hoping I can get back to that post soon, but in case I don't, the main point I wanted to make is that references to the meaning of 'combustion' all seem a bit pointless and half-hearted to me if the meaning isn't built upon the recognition of phase within the cycle. That is really the crux of the issue.

Regards
Deb