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Horary - which perfection is more important? (known outcome)

 
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candiceaqua



Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 18

Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:48 am    Post subject: Horary - which perfection is more important? (known outcome) Reply with quote

Hi all,

I am new to horary, I recently encountered a work chart. The chart is not void of course and querent asked:will they hire me?

The chart is under Regionmontanus, Jupiter Hour, Saturn Day

18th July 2009 14:41 55N 3W





Significator:
1.querent is the ASC ruler Mars and moon
2. work is 10th house ruler Mercury
3. Competitor is venus

Moon and Mars are all in the 7th house, which indicates that the competitor is very strong and is quite easy to get that job.

There is applying aspect between Mars(querent) and Mercury(job) in 6 degrees(Moeity between Mars and Mercury is 7.5 degrees).




However, moon will conjuct venus(competitor) first then square Saturn(H3-4 ruler) and the last aspect of moon in the sign will be sextile retrograding jupiter. While the perfection of the Mars and Mercury will happen after the moon changes sign.(Because Mercury-Mars is the main sigs therefore I conclude that the querent will get the job, but unfortunately, she didn't get the job)

Mercury although is peregrine, but it is swift and direct and free from combustion and sun beams.....I am wondering why the Mars-Mercury aspect didn't count.....which perfection is more important to have a conclusion?

It seems like a question of weighing which part is more important, please advise.

Thanks,
Candice
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Olivia



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 866

Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury is peregrine, cadent, and combust, and Mars is also peregrine, as is the Moon.

Peregrine planets - in my experience - do not perform well in horary. They simply don't seem to have the necessary ability to do anything.

Mercury is also conjunct the South Node, and that tends to pretty much destroy anything it touches. Add in Saturn in 10, and it doesn't look good.

If there's any confusion, I use Dorothean triplicities and Egyptian terms, but I'm pretty sure the Ptolemaic ones would work out the same way in this chart.

I hope this helps some.
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candiceaqua



Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 18

Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to my software, Mercury is free from combustion....

A planet is peregrine so he didn't have much resources, but it is in a good succedent house, Mercury may still have power to act?

Gem Mars is in Mercury's sign, this is a quite strong reception, Although Mars it self is peregrine too, he don't have much resources either.....

Olivia wrote:
Mercury is peregrine, cadent, and combust, and Mars is also peregrine, as is the Moon.

Peregrine planets - in my experience - do not perform well in horary. They simply don't seem to have the necessary ability to do anything.

Mercury is also conjunct the South Node, and that tends to pretty much destroy anything it touches. Add in Saturn in 10, and it doesn't look good.

If there's any confusion, I use Dorothean triplicities and Egyptian terms, but I'm pretty sure the Ptolemaic ones would work out the same way in this chart.

I hope this helps some.
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Tanit



Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 1118
Location: California, USA

Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We should always take notice of an angular malefic (well, it's got term and sect), in my experience, especially in the house asked about. That's a huge Saturn-like obstacle there.

Saturn in the 10th is also often a warning that you won't get credit by the answer you give, as the artist (via Lilly's "Considerations"). Venus, the astrologer, is also square Saturn, impairing your judgment. I've been heeding these warnings more myself lately.

Maybe I am making up work aphorisms again after my own experiences (lol), but 7th house luminaries seem to favor the competitor in work horaries, and Moon is applying to Venus, the competition. Mars and ASC square Jupiter/Neptune in the 3rd seems to point to some confusion in communication or the interview process maybe. Maybe the querent felt somehow deceived by this job. Saturn rules the 3rd as well, and is in a sign of Mercury, so it's pointing to some 3rd house problems, or maybe a bad interview. Mars and Moon are out of sect and it's a waning Moon. You generally see some better opportunities with waxing Moons.
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Tanit



Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 1118
Location: California, USA

Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
According to my software, Mercury is free from combustion....


It's separating, but it's considered an inferior planet, and still within 5 degree conjunction (out of sign, but it's there).
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candiceaqua



Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 18

Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocked I didn't notice Saturn square Venus(astrologer)!

Next time when I see a similar chart with malefics in angular. All the conditions favors the competitor, while there is ongoing aspect between H1-H10 ruler, I will just judge that the applying aspect is weaker than all the other fators then it will be an no?



Tanit wrote:
We should always take notice of an angular malefic (well, it's got term and sect), in my experience, especially in the house asked about. That's a huge Saturn-like obstacle there.

Saturn in the 10th is also often a warning that you won't get credit by the answer you give, as the artist (via Lilly's "Considerations"). Venus, the astrologer, is also square Saturn, impairing your judgment. I've been heeding these warnings more myself lately.

Maybe I am making up work aphorisms again after my own experiences (lol), but 7th house luminaries seem to favor the competitor in work horaries, and Moon is applying to Venus, the competition. Mars and ASC square Jupiter/Neptune in the 3rd seems to point to some confusion in communication or the interview process maybe. Maybe the querent felt somehow deceived by this job. Saturn rules the 3rd as well, and is in a sign of Mercury, so it's pointing to some 3rd house problems, or maybe a bad interview. Mars and Moon are out of sect and it's a waning Moon. You generally see some better opportunities with waxing Moons.
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Tanit



Joined: 01 Aug 2008
Posts: 1118
Location: California, USA

Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Combustion is a huge warning on its own. The applying aspect was a little ambiguous, but I have yet to see an important sig combust turn into much when not strong to begin with especially. It's an ultimate form of prohibition. I think the dexter Mercury sextile shows they had a shot at it, and the people liked them since it's a friendly aspect, but it ultimately probably road on the interview or something 3rd house, which didn't turn out well.

I am wondering what Mars-square Jupiter retro is signifying in the 3rd. Mars-Jupiter in natal is about squandering opportunities (I have that one!), but I am not sure how it plays out in horary. Are 2nd house rulers (Jupiter) references from your old job? I know it's a financial house, but it's also resources, and I know Frawley uses it for people who support you, like lawyers when you're on trial.
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candiceaqua



Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 18

Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Combusted or not?

They are in different houses and separating combustion maybe the influence is not so strong, and Mercury is in Leo where sun rules, and sun is mercury 's dispositor, it will lend virtues to Mercury, although Mercury is inferior and prone to get hurt, but in different houses, whether it is still hurts so much(Lily seems have different idea according to combustion....)?

I do hope it is combustion so that could explain why Mercury and Mars aspect didn't count.Lala Happy


Tanit wrote:
Combustion is a huge warning on its own. The applying aspect was a little ambiguous, but I have yet to see an important sig combust turn into much when not strong to begin with especially. It's an ultimate form of prohibition. I think the dexter Mercury sextile shows they had a shot at it, and the people liked them since it's a friendly aspect, but it ultimately probably road on the interview or something 3rd house, which didn't turn out well.

I am wondering what Mars-square Jupiter retro is signifying in the 3rd. Mars-Jupiter in natal is about squandering opportunities (I have that one!---- I have that one too!), but I am not sure how it plays out in horary. Are 2nd house rulers (Jupiter) references from your old job(it is not my chart, it is the chart I studied asked by someone else in another forum)?


I know it's a financial house, but it's also resources, and I know Frawley uses it for people who support you, like lawyers when you're on trial.
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PFN



Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 393
Location: Ouro Preto, Brasil

Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe the problem here is the Moon.

If you just look at applications from significators, Mars will aspect Mercury, ruler of the position, but only after Moon perfects her aspects. So, my opinion is that Saturn, by reason of his position conjunct the MC, is able to collect light and solve whatever there is to solve. The Moon just transfers the demands of both Mars and Venus, all of them ruled by Mercury (very fitting). Probably, it was a saturnine position to begin with, and Saturn represented it under the rulership of Mercury.

Now, why is the the Moon so problematic? Cause in this chart, the Moon can not be used as co-significator for the querent. As exalted ruler of the 7th, she represents her own exalted domicile, which is contrary to the querent interests. It probably would be better if the Moon was void in this chart... also, the aspect comes from the 2nd from 7th, resources from the enemy, showing the likely reason to be that the contender had an extra something that the querent, placed in his own 8th sign, lacked.

Now, just as side-note worth making: when the ruler of contender falls in the 1st, that's a good sign of victory for the querent. The reverse, when ruler of 1st falls in 7th, applies in favour of contender.
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Last edited by PFN on Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:50 am; edited 4 times in total
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Olivia



Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 866

Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A planet within 8-1/2 degrees of the Sun is combust, even out of sign. You also have Mercury conjunct the South Node, which is another destructive influence.

That plus Mercury being cadent, both significators and the Moon being peregrine, and everything Tanit talked about is enough to put the kaibosh on it, regrettably.

Usually I'm the one who won't touch a chart with Saturn in 10 - unless it's a 10th house question, which this obviously is. But it's still Saturn in 10, and that doesn't bode terribly well for 10th house matters in the chart.

Lilly held that combustion doesn't occur out-of-sign, but just about everybody else held that it does. Pretty much everybody here - with a few exceptions - has had the experience that it indeed holds out-of-sign.

Significators conjunct the South Node aren't good, either, especially when they're already as weakened as Mercury is.

I think before Tanit talked about with the economy being in the state that it's in, job horaries need to be pretty close to perfect these days, and that's a point, too.
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candiceaqua



Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 18

Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Tanit, Olivia and PEN, that really helps!

Smile
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