I am trying again to insert an image. Whoops, I made it!!This question is about a man I have had strong romantic feeling for ,for some time. He has flirted with me on and off, but is married, so I ended the relationship. His mother recently died, and I sent him a comforting message, asking him not to reply. It got me wondering again about the nature of his feelings for me, if any, and if his feelings were strong enough for him to make changes in his life. I don't see his feelings being strong with his significator peregrine in the 12th house, in detriment, etc.No reception, really. But I am curious about the intercepted houses in my first and second. Any pertinent info in these? Thanks.

Hi, Lakewind!
I believe we still haven't met because I would certainly remember this Zen nick name. it sounds so calming!

Personally, I've always been very "open-minded" when it comes to interceptions and I do pay a lot of attention to their potential meaning but mainly in Natal astrology. I once read an interesting description of interceptions (don't remember where, it was when i first started studying astrology) and it said that interceptions can sometimes act literally as chambers inside chambers. You enter a room and find another room inside it. For that reason, they can, on occasions, act as "nutshells" that aren't easy to break or as "locked" areas of our lives; "rooms" that we have to unlock or parts of our lives that we are having trouble dealing with or refuse to deal with...and so on. Naturally, depending upon the house in which they are placed, they can also suggest double matters (such as multiple marriages), secret affairs or things that belong to a certain sphere of life but those that we tend to keep for ourselves. Sometimes, they talk about the chabmers in which we are keeping something hidden from ourselves too.

Of course, we need to be very flexible with charts erected for higher latitudes as there we can often find double interceptions and, surely, the significance and the importance of interceptions in such charts should be taken with caution because they are aren't nearly as rare as in charts cast for your latitude (or mine, for that matter!).

But, like I said, I pay much more attention to them in Natal charts and probably not nearly as much in Horary. Because, for what it's worth, they usually belong to what we could label as "descriptive" material or the sack of additional informations and can hardly deeply affect the outcome as they don't really belong to those most important facts that the final reading usually depends upon. So, I would simply leave them for the very end and only for the situations when I actually think that they might add that necessary shade or two to the main picture. Having said that, we first need to eliminate the "not so important" interceptions and those would be- the interceptions in non-relevant houses. In this case, the 2nd doesn't really play any role in the story- it is not significant for the matter by its nature and we have no important planets in it that would bring it into the picture and make us pay closer attention to it so, just like we wouldn't examine the 2nd ruler in a romance question (unless someone is after a wealthy husband! ), we have no real reason to lose time examining the potential symbolics of the interception in that house either.
And, as for the interceptions inside the 1st- I believe that the easiest way to decipher its potential influence is by "meditating" on it for a while; that is your house, it describes you, your role, your attitude towards the situation...it is you. You can probably understand as to what it might be saying easier than anyone else.

But, knowing that this situation includes hidden activities (since he is a married man), I am not at all surprised to see the interceptions especially in combination with the full 12th house as this all describes the nature of this relationship and its secrecy. Of course, besides secrecy, a full 12th
does not bode well in a romance guestion in general.

Don't take anything that i have said as a rule but rather as my impression but, though I'm aware that many astrologers don't pay much attention to interceptions, I do admit that, if someone were to ask me a question about his/her romantic life and if the chart would have the interceptions in the most relevant angles (Asc and DC) and if any of the significators were occupying the 12th as well then, yes, i would probably ask the Querent if the situation , by any chance, included secret activities. Still, that is just my approach.

But, in this particular case, there is something even more important than these interceptions and that is the late ascendant; i believe that it is clearly suggesting that the Question is about something that has already been closed and sealed . Unless , of course, it is a sign of non-radicality caused by something else, which, again, only you, since you're the Querent, can decipher.

I hope this helps at least a bit!

Cheers,

aglaya

Thanks for an interesting and thoughtful reply. My natal 4th house is intercepted and I frequently encounter interceptions in my horaries. In this horary, the 12 th house might also point to my condition as an invalid who is mostly restricted to my home. As far as his feelings being weak(only reception by sign), I pretty much gathered that by his accepting my ending the relationship, but I don't often have clear intuition in personal matters. I have wondered about his feelings because he has a very troubled marriage and is concerned about its effect on his teen aged daughter, who is also clearly troubled. My natal venus is exactly conjunct his Arabic part of divorce, but I don't seem to be causing one!lol Anyway, the closed nature of the 7th house troubles me because it might indicate more "work" is needed by me to open up this area in general, as I have always rejected emotional/relational intimacy( not sex). Thanks Aglaya

I might suggest you to be careful when examining your love love life in general through this chart. As a matter of fact, i would personally advise you not to do it. First of all, this chart is not radical (late Ascendant) and that alone call for caution. Secondly, we cannot always expect Horary charts to tell us everything that we want to know outside the main Question no matter how connected or familiar with it such inquiries might be. I'd say that Natal chart or even another Horary chart (if you're more comfortable with them) would make a much better choice; this one depicts the situation from your Question and, if you start digging too much, you might easily get lost. Just an advice, anyway!

Now, as for his feeling and the reception that you're mentioning- I belong to those who believe that reception is only possible when there is an aspect involved i.e. a planet can be received (or can receive another planet) when they are placed in each other dignities and have an uninterrupted aspect to connect them and allow them to express that "affection" towards each other. I hope this makes sense.
Naturally, in some questions, we could take the situation in which one of the Significators is placed in some of the dignities of the other Sign. as important but, the truth is- in order for the planets (and therefore the people represented by them) to be able to use the promised potential, they have to be connected and the two main significators in this chart and not in aspect. But, if we decide to simply use the presence of his ruler inside your ruler ship than we can say that we have a sign of generosity here and I wouldn't really call it a weak one since the rulership is the strongest of all dignities. So, technically, seeing his planet inside the rulership of Mars does look like he is very keen on you. But look at where it pushed him- into the 12th. or, the circumstances have pushed him there because he cannot be with you.

The Sun, the ruler of the radical 5th (children) and the ruler of his (derived ) 5th (his child) are both cadent, badly placed in 6th and 12th and have recently started separating from a stressful opposition- this surely involves children and troubles with them. saturn is exalted but retrograde and cadent. (It is interesting that your ruler casts a generous sextile onto this Saturn). And, speaking of stressful aspects- the Moon has also recently started separating from a square with the 12th house Sun- Sun rules the 5th which, besides children, also rules sexual affairs and romance and, when we add your ruler into the picture (also separating from the sun) it looks like a "posttraumatic-chart" sort of speaking.
But the quantity of separations and this late ascendant are surely saying something.

You're so kind to respond again. Well, I'm not sure I would require an aspect to establish reception,but I understand your point of view. My question was whether his feelings were strong enough to make him change his life, ie divorce.
Clearly, they are not, and I feel the lack of an aspect is dispositive here.He has no intention to do so. Re: his family, I have strong compassion for them and would never engage in anything clandestine, except the fact of having my own feelings about him. That's probably the generous sextile! Thanks again.

Lakewind wrote:You're so kind to respond again. Well, I'm not sure I would require an aspect to establish reception,but I understand your point of view. My question was whether his feelings were strong enough to make him change his life, ie divorce.
.

Aye, but there's the rub!

You have just explained it yourself. i believe that this is the main reason why some Astrologers insist on aspects before they say that two planets are in reception. Technically- you can say that there is reception. Or, even better- generosity ; he is disposed by your ruler, he sits in the place where your ruler has most dignities and where he is detrimental himself. This is usually a very strong indication of strong affection or love, if you like. I don't think that I would even question that and, like I already said - it is a strong rather than a weak sign.

But, what you genuinely want is a) him, b) his love.
I'd say that you get his love, or his affection or whichever word you think best describes his feelings but that does not necessarily mean that he will leave his wife, does it?! That is why we need the aspect- to see that there is a possibility for this potential to be used. Without it, we have a man in love but not in a relationship, right!?
I know such things are hard to read when the Question is personal but, here I'm actually trying to stress out the positive in negative: the fact that he might not leave his wife (take it in general now, we don't have to use this chart as an example any more) does not mean that he does not love you enough! It is very important to keep this in mind in my opinion. As we both know, there is one thousand and one possible obstacle for a married man to be with his love if his love is not his wife. You have already mentioned some of them. Him not being in a position to make the desired move (at least for the time being) does not mean that he does not love you enough to do it and, according to this chart, i don't think that his feelings are at all questionable. He is probably very much attached to you- we have to respect the placement of his ruler in your rulership but the surroundings described by the 12th and so many planets in there in general do not present the overall situation in bright light. He might be suffering quite a bit too.

Now, I have to add that, the truth is, this Venus will make no further partile aspect inside the sign it is currently occupying but it will start applying to one planet before leaving it- and that planet is your ruler. And here, i really don't know as to what to tell you- the planets are outside the orb of the application, when they do start applying to each other it will be across the sign boundary and all this is happening in a chart with a very late Ascendant. If the ascendant were not this late and if the planets were at least within the orb I'd be very close to assuming that there was a potential but one that included severe changes (well, a divorce is a drastic change) but here, I'm really , really not sure as to what to say. I tend to respect strong signs of non-.radicality for this reason; the stars are saying something here- it could be that the object is slipping away, that you have already come to terms with the fact that this all belongs to the past, that you're not ready for this answer or that the stars are not ready to deliver it to you at the moment...it could mean many things. Your conclusion will depend upon how you decide to treat all these signs!

My question was whether his feelings were strong enough to make him change his life, ie divorce.
Clearly, they are not, and I feel the lack of an aspect is dispositive here.He has no intention to do so.

So, NO, these are two separate things! Or three! His intention, his feelings and the objective situation and possibilities are not the same. The lack of aspect does not necessarily need to be descriptive of his feelings- his feelings are partially described by his placement in your rulership. His intention just might be hidden in his movement ; we cannot locate any planet that attracts his attention at the moment and , technically, he is moving towards Mars. But this void of course movement of his ruler through the current sign, its placement outside the orb of the application, the Moon and all other significant placements in this chart are descriptive of the circumstances, and outer influences probably. Finally, the Ascendant is surely saying something too!

Wow, you are just full of interesting observations. I would never think of all these things happening in a chart,but of course, I don't profess to be learned in this.I admire your knowledge. Just before I "tuned in" and read your latest response, I decided to ask an horary if Mr. X was perhaps thinking of contacting me in the future. Guess what? 1st and 7th intercepted again!!! I'm not skillfull enough to interpret the chart, it's complicated, and I don't want to go on and on and bore everyone, but I felt that might be somewhat remarkable. Thanks again for your help. Lakewind

I don't think it's all knowledge but thank you.

I guess that this is one of the most important lessons in Horary that we all have or had to learn- the hardest charts to delineate are those cast for our own Questions. We can be a huge pain in the back when we are our own Querents/Astrologers.

And, as for the rest, the point when charts start making more sense is actually the moment when we relax in the process in delineation; the same thing happens in Natal astrology and other branches at a certain point. The chart starts speaking to us. But, even then, I must say that, our own charts usually remain the biggest mysteries. Maybe we simply have more in formations in our heads than an astrologer should have and tend to check if every single one fits the reading and, before you know it, we end up including our yesterday lunch into a business chart because Venus is probably talking about some kind of meal. When the Querent is another person, he or she usually narrows down the selection very easily after a single good indication or clear and straightforward question from the astrologer. Because the Querents do not see the Venus and don't know that it could mean "a meal"!
I hope you don't mind the "non-serious" tone of my answer but the point is- the best way to achieve the desired goal and that would be a good delineation and a useful astrological advice is to simply take on step at the time and follow the standard rules. Some things come first, some things are more important than others etc. Of course, not all charts are equally generous and you have probably noticed that some of them can actually surprise with the amount of useful informations whilst other will simply provide the answer to the main question and a few additional info's.
Many things found in it will still often simply be descriptive of the situation and circumstances that we are already familiar with (interceptions in the charts cast for questions in regards to secret romances, separating stressful aspects when the question is asked after a storm and so on.). Such things should be taken carefully though seriously but only because they can help us i n understanding all the underlying issues, sometimes our own attitude and the reasons that caused the situation to take the evident course but we still need to be able to separate the past from the present and the future.
And then, of course, the hardest thing comes- we have to come to terms with the answer and do that last thing that the stars cannot do on our behalf- make our own decisions based upon the reading. And that can be a very, very hard thing to do. What I call "yes but no" charts are the best example for this- sometimes the chart will say that the road to the desired goal is open but that the cost is or would be higher than expected or higher than wanted . In such cases, the answer should be:"Yes, but better not!". But not everyone will be able to take such advices seriously enough.